Scarlett Johansson to star in GHOST IN THE SHELL feature film from Dreamworks

[Project_A]

At least it isn't JLaw cast as her......in black rubber again...

 

[Lejuan]

Can't believe this just came out not too while ago. The timing is perfect.
But it all makes sense.
You guys are missing the obvious:

View attachment 260026

Scarlett Johansson fan creates a working replica ROBOT of the Hollywood star | Daily Mail Online

There shouldn't be any justification beyond, "Scarlett is an A-list actor who has the acting range, experience and box-office pulling power for this role and that's why we cast her".

I mean, apart from this example...

Meet Mark 1: A $50,000 3D printed humanoid robot that looks eerily like Scarlett Johansson

...it defies all nerd and socio-cultural logic to claim that, in the GoiS universe, Kusanagi would be designed as a white chick.

If I'm using lenses you're using binoculars wrong

You're drawing an erroneous inference there Gaspar. If you're going to bait me then I might start caring enough again to step back into the debate - and that would be boring for everybody

 

[GasparZizou]

You're drawing an erroneous inference there Gaspar. If you're going to bait me then I might start caring enough again to step back into the debate - and that would be boring for everybody

what? u scared big boi?

 

[Lejuan]

what? u scared big boi?

It's a futuristic concept, if you can change the way you look, via cyber bodies, it makes the whole race topic irrelevant.

Spurious, unsubstantiated nonsense.

Yeah, because it's not known that Japanese people have an infatuation with westerners in pop culture and hold the "western" thing to a higher regard.... That very famous anime art style just came into being...

You think that because a given culture exploits various elements of an imported cartoon graphic vocabulary that this translates into racial representation? You're mistaken

It's not like the publisher himself didn't even think of Kusanagi as Japanese looking...

That would make the generic mass produced body she uses, a generic white chick.

This is the 1995 movie, that is the same body Kusanagi is supposed to be wearing... Tell me, are Japanese people naturally blond?

I thought you were an anime fan? I know very little about manga or anime. To my great shame I haven't even see Evangelion. But I understand enough about the socio-cultural context in which it is produced and consumed to recognise that Japanese people see these characters as Japanese. You wrongly presume that a particular graphic treatment of skin tone and facial features - one that you associate with Western or 'white' features - presents universal constants in the racial or ethnic representation of characters.

You betray your own lack of awareness of cultural conditioning in your reading of racial stereotypes. What you are inferring from these images is a mistaken attribution of a 'default' racial type. The 'default' racial type in Japan is of course Japanese. Anime characters, however 'white' they look to you (owing to your imposition of a 'default' white racial type), are understood by Japanese to be... Japanese. White characters in anime are represented in a variety of ways to express their 'whiteness' - but hair colour and skin colour is typically not exploited in these cases. These characteristics simply do not assume the importance as racial or ethnic indicators that you attribute to them.

The Simpsons have yellow skin. And yet I bet you think they're white too (they are). But somehow, the Japanese characters in that show have paler yellow skin than the white characters. Huh?

It's a case by case basis, it's not only white washing but race swap in general, it's tied to each individual IP, history, character, story, and situation.

It's never all or nothing.

I'll grant the exception with respect to narratives that claim to be historically accurate. And the 'black face' and 'yellow face' of early Hollywood. If there's ever a biopic about President Obama I'd expect a black actor to be cast in that role. But in all other contexts, artistic license prevails and racial representation is fluid.

You either subscribe to this position or you don't - in which case you're either concerned about white-washing, or you're not.

How is it a copout then? I just explained how the fact that she's a cyborg is a legitimate justification, to the point that the white-washing does not work for Togusa, who is NOT a cyborg.

Race swap doesn't work for Black Panther, it wouldn't work for Akira unless reimagined, but it does work here, for a couple of characters.

The IP itself providing you with the justification you need is the thinnest of rationales?

Yup, it's a cop out. To decide that white-washing is a concern to you, but that you can give it a pass in this instance because 'cyborgs are ethnically ambiguous' and 'anime characters are white', is variously lame, ignorant and - clearly without you even knowing it - more casually racist than any deliberate casting of a white chick for an Asian character.

The idea of you sitting in your cinema seat Gaspar, sweating slightly as you clutch at your belief that Scarlett's white pointers are ok to gawk at because Kusanagi is a cyborg, fills me with pity. Pity and sympathy that you can't simply enjoy the movie because of course it's whitewashing but who the **** cares.

 

[RIDDICK]

Johansson, in terms of pretty much everything, is a 100% miscast. Nuff said.

_

But I can see why Japanese fellas couldn't care less.

 

[morphosis]

just watched Ghost in the Shell for the first time in a long time. Its just sooo good!!!! I was talking to two co-workers this week about it, both are Japanese. They are more worried its going to be a bad movie, but they didn't really see her as Japanese because she is a cyborg. Also they both don't agree that they see the characters as Japanese, they know its just a style, and their culture does love western culture. They both said that.

One mentioned that their is basically a epidemic thats been around for a while where young people are getting plastic surgery just to change facial features and stuff to have more caucasian look. its a popular thing to do.

Both felt its not really a story thats solely Japanese, and we talked about Blade Runner because it really is heavily inspired by that, and BR is inspired by Philip K **** and American author.

Unlike say Akira which is heavily a Japanese story because its very much about Tokyo, Ghost is just less about Japanese culture, more about technology and government corruption.

 

[GasparZizou]

Spurious, unsubstantiated nonsense.

Nope, in a setting where anyone can look like whatever they want, this whole casting/race thing is irrelevant. She could be Maori and it would still be the same.

You think that because a given culture exploits various elements of an imported cartoon graphic vocabulary that this translates into racial representation? You're mistaken

This is wrong, again.

It permeates many layers of their society. You're very out of the loop here, apparently, if you think it extends only to a trademark drawing style.

I thought you were an anime fan? I know very little about manga or anime. To my great shame I haven't even see Evangelion. But I understand enough about the socio-cultural context in which it is produced and consumed to recognise that Japanese people see these characters as Japanese. You wrongly presume that a particular graphic treatment of skin tone and facial features - one that you associate with Western or 'white' features - presents universal constants in the racial or ethnic representation of characters.

Wrong again.

The 1995 movie isn't like modern animes you see with purple haired girls and blonde Japanese characters, in the movie, every Japanese character is portrayed with Japanese features, Togusa has light brown hair in the anime, in the 1995 he has dark hair and slightly different eyes, same for other 100% human characters, only characters like Kusanagi and Batou, which happen to be cyborgs, are portrayed with clear eye color and blond hair.

You are right about the fact that the art style doesn't not represent race in most animes and does not represent the notion that the Japanese people don't see them as Japanese characters, I said this myself a couple pages ago.

But like I've been saying from the beginning, it's a case by case basis. And in this case, it has justification.

You betray your own lack of awareness of cultural conditioning in your reading of racial stereotypes. What you are inferring from these images is a mistaken attribution of a 'default' racial type. The 'default' racial type in Japan is of course Japanese. Anime characters, however 'white' they look to you (owing to your imposition of a 'default' white racial type), are understood by Japanese to be... Japanese. White characters in anime are represented in a variety of ways to express their 'whiteness' - but hair colour and skin colour is typically not exploited in these cases. These characteristics simply do not assume the importance as racial or ethnic indicators that you attribute to them.

Again, this is not the case in the 1995 movie, which is why I used it as example due to the fact that it lacks the average anime cliches, the movie is known for being more realistic than the anime, no weird hair girls, no exaggerated clear color big eyes, no spiky hairdos.

I'm aware of anime characters looking what they look like doesn't mean they're not Japanese, again, I said pages ago, but there exist exceptions such as Akira and the 1995 movie where they are portrayed distinctly Japanese and a character with blond hair can be viewed as not Japanese looking, the fact that you've been ignoring this to lump my reasoning with the generality of anime clichés shows your lack of awareness, not only towards this race thing, but the whole conversation as well.

The Simpsons have yellow skin. And yet I bet you think they're white too (they are). But somehow, the Japanese characters in that show have paler yellow skin than the white characters. Huh?

Again, see above, if you need leverage from these absurd non sequiturs, you're even more lost than I thought

I'll grant the exception with respect to narratives that claim to be historically accurate. And the 'black face' and 'yellow face' of early Hollywood. If there's ever a biopic about President Obama I'd expect a black actor to be cast in that role. But in all other contexts, artistic license prevails and racial representation is fluid.

Wroooong reasoning yet again, the exception should also be extended to consider everything else I mentioned.

Which is story, history, character, IP, and situation on which all of the former are in.

Take Akira for example, distinct Japanese setting, with distinct Japanese characters and distinct Japanese everything, could not work with raceswap.... Unless they revamp the story into taking place in the west with west related themes, this is the "situation".

Or this, with distinct Japanese characters, who can alter their appearance to look like anyone, make the race concerns of the cast of the movie, irrelevant, this is the story, characters and the IP itself.

On the other side you have characters like Black Panther, that would never admit a race swap because their race is pivotal for their character.

You either subscribe to this position or you don't - in which case you're either concerned about white-washing, or you're not.

But you haven't done anything to support this black/white reasoning. There are many inflections to a given case that can affect the validity of a race swap, this position of you either care or you don't based on absolutely nothing, you've presented, is capricious at best.

Yup, it's a cop out. To decide that white-washing is a concern to you, but that you can give it a pass in this instance because 'cyborgs are ethnically ambiguous' and 'anime characters are white', is variously lame, ignorant and - clearly without you even knowing it - more casually racist than any deliberate casting of a white chick for an Asian character.

But I've never said anime characters are white, please go ahead and quote me on that.

And no, the fact that they're cyborgs that can change their ENTIRE bodies, makes ANY race swap, irrelevant, not only white-washing, the fact that it was ScarJo was due to her being one of the few current females who can make a big movie happen, like many have said before, you included.

She could've been any race and I would've been fine with, because she's a cyborg.

And c'mon, out of the two of us here, if someone is ignorant on many of the issues being discussed here, it's clearly you.

The idea of you sitting in your cinema seat Gaspar, sweating slightly as you clutch at your belief that Scarlett's white pointers are ok to gawk at because Kusanagi is a cyborg, fills me with pity. Pity and sympathy that you can't simply enjoy the movie because of course it's whitewashing but who the **** cares.

I'm not a fan of ScarJo though, she's not that hot imo, I'm only content she's a decent actress and I honestly don't care about this movie, if I had it my there would be no movies of masterpieces such as GitS.

And I'm not looking for an apology that lets me look at her ****, I'm only explaining why this collective "white washing" tantrum is pretty retarded, given the source material.

Yes, it's most certainly whitewashing, I'm not saying it isn't, I'm only saying there's an aspect in the IP itself that makes the race swap, creatively valid, did you even read the thread before commenting?

Tell me, how do you feel about MCU's Heimdall?

I was only really just baiting you on that last post though.

 

[GasparZizou]

One mentioned that their is basically a epidemic thats been around for a while where young people are getting plastic surgery just to change facial features and stuff to have more caucasian look. its a popular thing to do..

Yes, I've read about this too, apparently it also improves their chances of getting jobs.

But nope, it's only about cartoons bro

 

[Solidus]

Spurious, unsubstantiated nonsense.



You think that because a given culture exploits various elements of an imported cartoon graphic vocabulary that this translates into racial representation? You're mistaken



I thought you were an anime fan? I know very little about manga or anime. To my great shame I haven't even see Evangelion. But I understand enough about the socio-cultural context in which it is produced and consumed to recognise that Japanese people see these characters as Japanese. You wrongly presume that a particular graphic treatment of skin tone and facial features - one that you associate with Western or 'white' features - presents universal constants in the racial or ethnic representation of characters.

You betray your own lack of awareness of cultural conditioning in your reading of racial stereotypes. What you are inferring from these images is a mistaken attribution of a 'default' racial type. The 'default' racial type in Japan is of course Japanese. Anime characters, however 'white' they look to you (owing to your imposition of a 'default' white racial type), are understood by Japanese to be... Japanese. White characters in anime are represented in a variety of ways to express their 'whiteness' - but hair colour and skin colour is typically not exploited in these cases. These characteristics simply do not assume the importance as racial or ethnic indicators that you attribute to them.

The Simpsons have yellow skin. And yet I bet you think they're white too (they are). But somehow, the Japanese characters in that show have paler yellow skin than the white characters. Huh?



I'll grant the exception with respect to narratives that claim to be historically accurate. And the 'black face' and 'yellow face' of early Hollywood. If there's ever a biopic about President Obama I'd expect a black actor to be cast in that role. But in all other contexts, artistic license prevails and racial representation is fluid.

You either subscribe to this position or you don't - in which case you're either concerned about white-washing, or you're not.



Yup, it's a cop out. To decide that white-washing is a concern to you, but that you can give it a pass in this instance because 'cyborgs are ethnically ambiguous' and 'anime characters are white', is variously lame, ignorant and - clearly without you even knowing it - more casually racist than any deliberate casting of a white chick for an Asian character.

The idea of you sitting in your cinema seat Gaspar, sweating slightly as you clutch at your belief that Scarlett's white pointers are ok to gawk at because Kusanagi is a cyborg, fills me with pity. Pity and sympathy that you can't simply enjoy the movie because of course it's whitewashing but who the **** cares.

Nope, in a setting where anyone can look like whatever they want, this whole casting/race thing is irrelevant. She could be Maori and it would still be the same.


This is wrong, again.

It permeates many layers of their society. You're very out of the loop here, apparently, if you think it extends only to a trademark drawing style.


Wrong again.

The 1995 movie isn't like modern animes you see with purple haired girls and blonde Japanese characters, in the movie, every Japanese character is portrayed with Japanese features, Togusa has light brown hair in the anime, in the 1995 he has dark hair and slightly different eyes, same for other 100% human characters, only characters like Kusanagi and Batou, which happen to be cyborgs, are portrayed with clear eye color and blond hair.

You are right about the fact that the art style doesn't not represent race in most animes and does not represent the notion that the Japanese people don't see them as Japanese characters, I said this myself a couple pages ago.

But like I've been saying from the beginning, it's a case by case basis. And in this case, it has justification.


Again, this is not the case in the 1995 movie, which is why I used it as example due to the fact that it lacks the average anime cliches, the movie is known for being more realistic than the anime, no weird hair girls, no exaggerated clear color big eyes, no spiky hairdos.

I'm aware of anime characters looking what they look like doesn't mean they're not Japanese, again, I said pages ago, but there exist exceptions such as Akira and the 1995 movie where they are portrayed distinctly Japanese and a character with blond hair can be viewed as not Japanese looking, the fact that you've been ignoring this to lump my reasoning with the generality of anime clichés shows your lack of awareness, not only towards this race thing, but the whole conversation as well.


Again, see above, if you need leverage from these absurd non sequiturs, you're even more lost than I thought


Wroooong reasoning yet again, the exception should also be extended to consider everything else I mentioned.

Which is story, history, character, IP, and situation on which all of the former are in.

Take Akira for example, distinct Japanese setting, with distinct Japanese characters and distinct Japanese everything, could not work with raceswap.... Unless they revamp the story into taking place in the west with west related themes, this is the "situation".

Or this, with distinct Japanese characters, who can alter their appearance to look like anyone, make the race concerns of the cast of the movie, irrelevant, this is the story, characters and the IP itself.

On the other side you have characters like Black Panther, that would never admit a race swap because their race is pivotal for their character.



But you haven't done anything to support this black/white reasoning. There are many inflections to a given case that can affect the validity of a race swap, this position of you either care or you don't based on absolutely nothing, you've presented, is capricious at best.


But I've never said anime characters are white, please go ahead and quote me on that.

And no, the fact that they're cyborgs that can change their ENTIRE bodies, makes ANY race swap, irrelevant, not only white-washing, the fact that it was ScarJo was due to her being one of the few current females who can make a big movie happen, like many have said before, you included.

She could've been any race and I would've been fine with, because she's a cyborg.

And c'mon, out of the two of us here, if someone is ignorant on many of the issues being discussed here, it's clearly you.


I'm not a fan of ScarJo though, she's not that hot imo, I'm only content she's a decent actress and I honestly don't care about this movie, if I had it my there would be no movies of masterpieces such as GitS.

And I'm not looking for an apology that lets me look at her ****, I'm only explaining why this collective "white washing" tantrum is pretty retarded, given the source material.

Yes, it's most certainly whitewashing, I'm not saying it isn't, I'm only saying there's an aspect in the IP itself that makes the race swap, creatively valid, did you even read the thread before commenting?

Tell me, how do you feel about MCU's Heimdall?

I was only really just baiting you on that last post though.

 

[GasparZizou]

And it's only gonna get longer

 

[Lejuan]

So you give yourself a pass to *** but you don't dig Scarlett?

What a waste

 

[GasparZizou]

I mean, I would totally brush her hair if you get what I'm saying, I'm just not a fan.

 

[devilof76]

Lejuan, you need to see Evangelion.

If you don't see how different races and different cultures make stories more interesting and how changing those things because of either white washing or SJW pandering is a bad thing, then you're just being stubborn.

You're talking about fidelity to source material. I'm talking about demanding that a character's racial traits be adhered to for the sake of representing race. It's tantamount to casting someone because they fit the costume, but not as petty. You know, like casting Maria Ozawa because she's Japanese.

 

[GasparZizou]

Oh no, I'm saying "race fealty" is a good thing, when there's reason for it, same as race swaps are not a bad thing, when there's reason for them as well.

I guess that's how I summarize my position in this whole discussion.

 

[devilof76]

I used fealty specifically to include the devotion of those sharing the character's race (or those empathizing), as well as the actual cohesion. Of course it would be dumb to make Black Panther white if you were going to accurately represent the character's established story (unless you intended to change his origin for a compelling reason; you could make Captain America black for the similar reasons.) Making race the focus for any other reason is nonsense, which was my point. In the context of those objecting to Johanssen's race, that was the issue.

 

[morphosis]

if the creators of the original are giving them their blessing, then so be it. If they don't mind it, it is their art, they should be the ones to say yes or no I think. I mean its complete fiction so I think some liberties can be taken. Not like Ridley Scott or Philip K **** are crying they ripped them off. Its all going to come down to if the movie winds up being terrible or good. The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was remade by David Fincher, i mean that was very much a Swedish story. Rooney Mara isn't Swedish, but she was up for the Oscar for that role.

Personally i didnt feel Ghost was really a Japanese story, it felt much more universal to me, unlike Akira which is very much a Japanese story.

 

[Lejuan]

Lejuan, you need to see Evangelion.

It's part of my library of shame

 

[RIDDICK]

Evangelion is a very teen thing tho. I loved it as a teen but don't care for it as an adult.

GitS was pretty adult to begin with.

 

[devilof76]

There were teen characters. I didn't notice them doing much teen stuff.

It's part of my library of shame

If you watch it, don't listen to Riddick.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

@ the last few pages of this thread.

I'm just happy that one of my favorite Manga is coming to the big screen as a live action movie.

I can't wait to see all the SFX put into this flick especially the tachikoma.