Should Rainman Artwork re-release unpainted head sculpts?

[jra81984]

WTF? The guys that have the originals don't want the newer guys to have it? Wow, anyone who believes this is SALTY! You missed the bus.......GET OVER IT ALREADY! It's a limited Edition peice of work, why can't people respect that for what it is? Are you mad because the few who own the original stuff don't want to sell you their figures for what you want to pay!! News Flash people!!!! A Rainman Bill will always be unique, rare and valuable......ALWAYS! There is nothing that will ever change that fact, no new sculpt or new clothing or new paint or re-re-re released sculpts.....Nothing. Stop trying to thread on people for what they have that you don't. Why is it unreasonable to suggest that Rainman just retire some of his work already for the sake of respecting what LIMITED means in the world of collectables and MOVE ON to newer things. It doesn't mean that any of these side projects can't continue, but why are most of them dependant upon a Rainman piece, or copying his design or using his tailor to get a project moving? What cracks me up most are those ongoing projects that are clearly using his work as a template to create their stuff only to shout out to the world that theirs is better!! I'm no artist but I'd like to see some try doing theirs from scratch the way this man has consistently been doing it. This hobby is going backwards . It went from kitbashing to Full Artist work-ups with original sculpture and clothing design, to Forum member x Full Artist collaborative Kitbashing

Seriously? So according to this viewpoint, people who have Rainman Butchers from 4+ years ago should sit atop their golden prestigious thrones and that none else should be able to have a figure in their collection? That is not exactly how the market is these days. If a project is listed as being limited that is one thing, but when it is not... who cares if there is a second run, etc.

I also challenge you to explain what is wrong with "Full Artist collaborative Kitbashing" It is what makes this community great these days.

 

[agonistes86]

I also challenge you to explain what is wrong with "Full Artist collaborative Kitbashing" It is what makes this community great these days.

These days my collection consists mostly of full customs or heavily customized "official" figures, but I still have never bought a fully finished à la carte custom figure (e.g., Rainman, Iminime). Kitbashing with custom items (including my own painting, sculpting, and tailoring) is the greatest joy I get from this hobby, and gives me the opportunity to create a figure to be exactly how I want it to be.

I've never bought anything from Rainman before, simply because I'm very selective in what I buy and his work has never matched my figure interests so far, but I voted yes because of my love for the hobby, and because I disagree strongly with the reasoning of those voting no.

 

[Rdeezy]

I think maybe 1 restock a year is enough, two a year is a bit much for him to do.

 

[Levit05]

1 restock is fine for RM....two maybe setting him and everyone else involved for disappointment with the eventual delays...the man is too busy to run a side business efficiently enough to produce two or more runs per year on just the heads alone...including shipping and all the time it will suck from him from other projects, his real job and other projects he may have...I like the debate that's going on here, its healthy but ultimately I collect for me and my hoarding ways...not because of value...seriously...I think I have sold maybe 2-3 things in this scale since I became part of this scale back in 09....while keeping over 900+....really...I think I have a problem...:-/

 

[Ebeneezer Jones]

Well respect to Rainman's butcher. I still love it and always will. I have put together an Iris MJ and Iris RM. Love them both. Prefer the MJ sculpt, but people will always have their own personal fave, and that's great. It's great to have the options. So by selling the sculpt, we all have those fantastic options open to us. Honestly can't see what any fuss is about.

Limited editions are full and DX sets, H+C sets and clothing sets. I can't see Yunsil re-visiting any of those original sets. I think Wonka is it, and then no more. Could be wrong, but that's the impression i get. If you want the limited edition sets, then go for it, but you can't stop other tailors making the same outfits, and why should anyone.

On another note, Rainman's is the best butcher outfit etc, i disagree. Bearing in mind Yunsil made that outfit years ago, the one from Iris in my eyes is much better. Maybe that's what is p155ing people off, because none of this seemed to be a factor until Iris made that outfit. Nobody seemed to mind. Now all of a sudden, maybe people saw the new butcher outfit and panicked. Obviously i don't know that for a fact, but with the amount of sculpt re-releases there have been, it's funny that this person emailed Rainman when the photo's of the new butcher outfit started showing up.

If Scott did make the first butcher, then isn't RM's a copy of that...?

 

[Ebeneezer Jones]

1 restock is fine for RM....two maybe setting him and everyone else involved for disappointment with the eventual delays...the man is too busy to run a side business efficiently enough to produce two or more runs per year on just the heads alone...including shipping and all the time it will suck from him from other projects, his real job and other projects he may have...I like the debate that's going on here, its healthy but ultimately I collect for me and my hoarding ways...not because of value...seriously...I think I have sold maybe 2-3 things in this scale since I became part of this scale back in 09....while keeping over 900+....really...I think I have a problem...:-/

900+.

 

[Lakhota]

WTF? The guys that have the originals don't want the newer guys to have it? Wow, anyone who believes this is SALTY! You missed the bus.......GET OVER IT ALREADY! It's a limited Edition peice of work, why can't people respect that for what it is? Are you mad because the few who own the original stuff don't want to sell you their figures for what you want to pay!! News Flash people!!!! A Rainman Bill will always be unique, rare and valuable......ALWAYS! There is nothing that will ever change that fact, no new sculpt or new clothing or new paint or re-re-re released sculpts.....Nothing. Stop trying to thread on people for what they have that you don't. Why is it unreasonable to suggest that Rainman just retire some of his work already for the sake of respecting what LIMITED means in the world of collectables and MOVE ON to newer things. It doesn't mean that any of these side projects can't continue, but why are most of them dependant upon a Rainman piece, or copying his design or using his tailor to get a project moving? What cracks me up most are those ongoing projects that are clearly using his work as a template to create their stuff only to shout out to the world that theirs is better!! I'm no artist but I'd like to see some try doing theirs from scratch the way this man has consistently been doing it. This hobby is going backwards . It went from kitbashing to Full Artist work-ups with original sculpture and clothing design, to Forum member x Full Artist collaborative Kitbashing

Mr. Turbo You just contradicted yourself you are saying that the originals will always be the original "you miss the bus" but then your against people creating new interpretations of the characters with different artist,making it a total different project. You bashed the MJ butcher constantly in his thread when he tried to release another butcher head, which is now a different option .Velvet Morning made the original Butcher and clothing I hear he even colabarated with Rainman. I don't see any of those owners complaining about Rainman rereleasing Velvet's original limited piece.

Turbo you make this so personal as if a group of people are sitting around finding out ways to manipulate the system,selling their unborn children and conjuring backdoor deals in order to undermine the handful of collectors fortune enough to own original pieces. I assure you that's not happening.

It's very simple economics at work here.These are iconic characters, they are in demand, people have money, artist are in business to make money, the end.

You should embrace the fact that you are lucky enough to have such great pieces of art and not get so abject and degenerate. You do understand 100 years from now most of these figures will be in landfills, it's the fun,comradely,excitement,bonds and relationships you make with other collectors that is most important.

Don't let your anger seclude you from us, I have read your post in the past you really do love this hobby and are very influential and intelligent try and use that love for positive changes forward and be a role model and mentor to new collectors!

 

[chubbyman]

You should embrace the fact that you are lucky enough to have such great pieces of art and not get so abject and degenerate. You do understand 100 years from now most of these figures will be in landfills, it's the fun,comradely,excitement,bonds and relationships you make with other collectors that is most important.

This...100% this. Why can't everyone be like handsome Tony over here...

 

[Cap'n Cook]

I am in no way against new artist versions of the same character. It is part and parcel of this hobby and new collectors will always want figures that have already been made.

What I do no agree on is these new collaborations always relying on the rainman heads. They were originally limited and limited for a reason. I am in this game for the art and not the status but when you are paying a premium: the limited nature of course has a bearing on this.

So my 2 cents are basically still no to more restocks, there have been enough. Let the new collaborations cotinue as they most definitely will, but for those that did miss out or indeed sell what they had; time to get some new sculpts done and let the rainman stuff rest. You will still be able to own future rainman artworks as he is not quitting at present.

 

[Lakhota]

https://www.smartambala.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/A-Little-Love.gif

 

[turbo.VS.ozone]

Mr. Turbo You just contradicted yourself you are saying that the originals will always be the original "you miss the bus" but then your against people creating new interpretations of the characters with different artist,making it a total different project. You bashed the MJ butcher constantly in his thread when he tried to release another butcher head, which is now a different option .Velvet Morning made the original Butcher and clothing I hear he even colabarated with Rainman. I don't see any of those owners complaining about Rainman rereleasing Velvet's original limited piece.

Once Again, you've completely missed the point! How do I contradict myself? Please tell me? Where in my statement did I say I'm against others doing Bill projects? Hey man, go knock yourself out with them, go to town with it. Just please man, don't try and use any Bill project bashes as an attempt to make those who own original Rainman works the bad guys because your Salty you missed out. That's the impression I get from this. We're not out to get you or destroy any other projects. There is no competition here. Why do you feel that people who own Rainman original work think they are better than you for it? It's ridiculous! Stop twisting peoples comments around inorder to fit whatever point your trying to make. It was promoted as a limited piece of work. That means that at a certain point no more will be available and the artist will move on to the next thing. It's a very SIMPLE and basic concept. It's what people who have ever bought a DX or Fullset or H+C set were told and paid a premium for. What gives you the right to say I shouldn't care about that agreement? It was obviously a selling point for that product so why not be ethical about it and HONOR THAT AGREEMENT, point blank. At what point does it finally start to be a limited edition product if sculpts are continuing to be sold and Rainmans tailor's continue to be solicited to make more clothing sets. Why are these Bill projects so dependant on Rainmans sculpts?

Regarding Velvet Morning's Butcher:

Once again you speak about what you hear....Hearsay! I'm gonna tell you what I know because I actually have experience with it. First off Velvet Mornings was the first to do a Brawler version of Bill. I know this why?......because I've actually owned it, here's a picture of mine!

[/URL][/IMG]

So, like I was saying....Velvets Dandy man was the first, then he released the brawler and roughly 2months or so later Rainman announced that he was doing a Bill as well. Yup you guessed it, you was right.....I bought that one too! So that makes me one of the few who owned both a Velvet and Rainman Bill without complaining about a re-release you know why.......because it wasn't a re-release. Same character.....BUT.....different headsculpts, different EXPRESSION, and they didn't use the same tailor. Velvet morning had his and Rainman had his own. A privilege to have actually held both in my hand and see them in person. Two genuine and very distinct artist interpretations of the same character. Oh and I've supported countless other artist interpretations of Bill. Was on the original list and supported/bought one of Robbie's Bill hats, was part of the initial group of people who pushed for him to do a "blue steel" version of the knives and belt and have been waiting on it, ohhh I don't know maybe 2plus years now. The Iris clothing set is also a great and very distinct, so you see Lakhota I'm not against you getting a butcher, I'm just against all that SALTINESS that the new wave have against guys who happened to be in the right place at the right time.

For example I bought a Rainman sculpt from mj12. I had it painted by Rahmier84. I purchased the Iris outfit. I bought belt /knives from tinela and shoes from Robbie!

Hey, am I reading this right? Did you say you bought a Rainman Bill the Butcher sculpt from mj12?
Just curious.

 

[Godfather1408]

Turbo man just agree to disagree and go play with barbie. [emoji12]

 

[A Jedi Warrior]

Wow people really don't want you to have what they have first off your Rainman piece will always be limited and its the COA's outfits Accessories that make it limited its Rainman's take on it/his version and that's what your paying for, if someone makes a different version or if the outfit is made by someone else then its not Rainman's Limited edition that you paid for so there should be no problems. Also I believe that is why Lee/Rainman offers heads so people that missed out or cant afford everything can make their own.

 

[jra81984]

Hey, am I reading this right? Did you say you bought a Rainman Bill the Butcher sculpt from mj12?
Just curious.

Congratulations you went back in the thread to contradict me on a typo.... Bravo. I bought a Rainman and a MJ sculpt is what I meant to say.

 

[Ebeneezer Jones]

Regarding Velvet Morning's Butcher:

Once again you speak about what you hear....Hearsay! I'm gonna tell you what I know because I actually have experience with it. First off Velvet Mornings was the first to do a Brawler version of Bill. I know this why?......because I've actually owned it, here's a picture of mine!

[/URL][/IMG]

So, like I was saying....Velvets Dandy man was the first, then he released the brawler and roughly 2months or so later Rainman announced that he was doing a Bill as well. Yup you guessed it, you was right.....I bought that one too! So that makes me one of the few who owned both a Velvet and Rainman Bill without complaining about a re-release you know why.......because it wasn't a re-release. Same character.....BUT.....different headsculpts, different EXPRESSION, and they didn't use the same tailor. Velvet morning had his and Rainman had his own. A privilege to have actually held both in my hand and see them in person.

But didn't he use the same source material, which was one of your comments. Plus it's the same figure, from the same movie from the same scene. Rainman's is a copy of Scott's, using your logic.

 

[Darthy]

For me it also became more polemic due to the whole Yunsil and Iris thing.

I don't think someone would have cared that much about characters like the butcher, plainview or even the dude if that was not because of Rainman's figures... Indeed Scott did the first butcher, I still own it.

Collecting = obsession for a lot of us. I'll be stepping out from this hobby little by little. I already focused on buying more HT in the future and less custom figures because of the crazy prices and everyone wanting to make money. I might stop buying 1/6 suits for $300 and 1/6 plastic roses for $30 too. In the end HT will produce eveything 10x cheaper anyway, even the figure you think you are the only one in the world to possess.

Anyway quality going up was my main concern. Rainman and his boss can do whatever they want with their sculpts. They must have sold more than 500 sculpts for each character so I don't think it's that important now. He lost my respect as an artist among the years. It's not this decision that will change anything now.

 

[chubbyman]

There's two sides to your argument Turbo, people who bought the original LE are salty because 1) Their figure got a much need update and/or 2) They spent thousands in aftermarket only to see a substitute available. The new guys are salty because they missed out so they get other artists to make an update. Sure I admit I missed out on Bill, didn't want to pay thousands, and there was a substitute available for a good price. It worked out for everyone, at the END OF THE DAY, we are all happy to have a Bill. You should be happy you have a limited Rainman Bill, not the fact that people are drowning out the market. It's not that big of a deal unless you see your figures as investments. Nothing wrong with that but that's not the mentality you should carry with a hobby. It should make you happy not rip out someone's throat because they bought an IRIS outfit.

 

[Lakhota]

Supply and demand. With Iris clothing ,Robbie's accessories and Rainmans heads the supply has been filled and the demand for the original has somewhat ceased, we get it. I have comic books and sports cards that were worth thousands now not worth the paper they are printed on. That's the gamble with collectibles there is never a 100% guarantee it will be an investment. You mean to tell me Lee just now was aware of this issue? I hate to break it to some of you but Alex, Antwan, and other RM sets are in the works. It's about supporting the Artist and collecting things you love, in the end the Originals are the Orginals.......

 

[stiff_richards]

I see everyone's side. We all collect for different reasons I guess. All I'm saying is that I paid 5,000$ for Lees Wonka last year because I was in love with the piece. I was also under the impression that it was extremely rare and "limited" figure so the price tag made sense. Am I being selfish now that I'm a little bummed out seeing Yungsil do the clothing sets again? I could have just waited for her to revisit the project and bought an extra head from lees restock....

 

[turbo.VS.ozone]

There's two sides to your argument Turbo, people who bought the original LE are salty because 1) Their figure got a much need update and/or 2) They spent thousands in aftermarket only to see a substitute available. The new guys are salty because they missed out so they get other artists to make an update. Sure I admit I missed out on Bill, didn't want to pay thousands, and there was a substitute available for a good price. It worked out for everyone, at the END OF THE DAY, we are all happy to have a Bill. You should be happy you have a limited Rainman Bill, not the fact that people are drowning out the market. It's not that big of a deal unless you see your figures as investments. Nothing wrong with that but that's not the mentality you should carry with a hobby. It should make you happy not rip out someone's throat because they bought an IRIS outfit.

Chubby, most of us who still own an original Rainman Bill or bought one in the aftermarket for thousands of dollars aren't concerned or worried about any new interpretations of this character. Trust me they know exactly what they are holding onto. I see the newer versions of this character being made as purely a way to fill a void some have with missing out on Rainman's original or super regretful that they sold theirs. If people have a beef with the aftermarket price of this figure then take it up with the guys who actually sold theirs for those mark-ups! I'm not the enemy I still got mine.

As far as better, that's all subjective. Your entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. Rainman's Bill is World Famous in the 1/6 community. That's a fact that no one can dispute. It's special, It's celebrated, it's always talked about, controversial and it's RARE.

The topic at hand is whether Rainman should continue to release headsculpts or not. I voted no because I think when somthing is promoted as limited we should honor that, otherwise don't promote it or sell it as such. Those that want to see an unlimited supply of Rainman headsculpts or re-issues of his clothing should also ask for an unlimited supply of Iris clothing or MJ12 sculpts as well. What's the point in capping that off. Let's keep it going if that's the case.

I think a lot of people need to stop using the "aftermarket value" argument as a way to scapegoat collectors who own Rainmans work and feel differently about these limited edition releases especially when premiums were paid to secure that agreement.