Should the Knights of Ren have been Snoke's guards?

[YoNoSe]

True and if Master Palpatine saw that he would be very grumpy.

He didn't want to go out like this guy.

 

[Khev]

 

[YoNoSe]

I saw DM in concert three separate times in the 90's/early 2000's.

I think I saw him 4 times. 2x in NJ, 1x NY, 1x VA and maybe even another one. CT?

To have that kind of free time again...

 

[Khev]

Mine were all on the other coast. The Gorge Amphitheatre in Washington State, Tacoma Dome (also WA), and the Rose Garden in Portland, OR. He kind of demanded that you see him multiple times since he was always mixing up his playlist.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Except TROS follows TLJ which specifically said that some of Luke's students followed Ben. And if the KOR are literally named after him and are his personal henchmen then yes I would say that their TROS scenes are 100% in line with that. If you're saying that they don't appear to be former Jedi simply because we don't see them using the Force in a visible way then to that I would say we never saw Darth Maul do anything except stalk people, look cool, and fight with a lightsaber other than that one single Force push he did to Obi-Wan during their duel at the end. ANH Vader just did the one Force Choke on Motti and ROTJ Vader never used the Force at all so not seeing the KOR openly display any powers isn't very unusual.

I would assume that Ben's fellow Jedi students would use at least *some* Force powers in a fight against their boy. Especially after he had a lightsaber.

Maul used more Force abilities than a shove and opening a door. Those leaps from platform to platform weren't just because those three had incredible calf muscles.

As far as Vader in ANH, the Motti choke was early in the film. And it was later followed by Vader "sensing" the presence of Obi-Wan on the Death Star. These instances established Vader having "magic" powers. That's how you identify and distinguish Force users when you wouldn't otherwise know. If the KOR were former Jedi students, it would be beyond obvious that you'd want to establish that (even just for cool factor) in a fight against Force-powered Ben.

If anything that one shot of them all standing on the Pasaana rock formation can be interpreted them as using the Force to track their quarries since Maul couldn't do it himself without the help of a planetary transmission trace and probe droids.

Yeah but Maul was tracking before the Mando era where you can hunt down anyone or anything throughout the galaxy with a fob.

 

[YoNoSe]

I actually cemented a friendship at a DMB concert with a SW ref- as we were walking out I spotted a small fire on the lawn & asked one of our large group, "are they burning jawas over there?"

We had never really talked before but became lifers after that.

 

[Khev]

I would assume that Ben's fellow Jedi students would use at least *some* Force powers in a fight against their boy. Especially after he had a lightsaber.

Well again it still lines up with Force users using their powers sparingly, even in battle. I'm not saying that a Force push or something wouldn't have been fine but if even the super flashy Darth Maul only uses the Force once or twice over an extremely prolonged battle when he's outnumbered *and* facing a Jedi Master to boot then I'm fine with the KOR sticking with their weapons for the brief few seconds that they even lasted.

To say that they *should* have used the Force and therefore were acting out of character as former Jedi students is to totally ignore precedent that was well established in the previous films IMO.

 

[Khev]

I actually cemented a friendship at a DMB concert with a SW ref- as we were walking out I spotted a small fire on the lawn & asked one of our large group, "are they burning jawas over there?"

We had never really talked before but became lifers after that.

Nice, lol.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Well again it still lines up with Force users using their powers sparingly, even in battle. I'm not saying that a Force push or something wouldn't have been fine but if even the super flashy Darth Maul only uses the Force once or twice over an extremely prolonged battle when he's outnumbered *and* facing a Jedi Master to boot then I'm fine with the KOR sticking with their weapons for the brief few seconds that they even lasted.

To say that they *should* have used the Force and therefore were acting out of character as former Jedi students is to totally ignore precedent that was well established in the previous films IMO.

I might be inclined to agree with you if they weren't dispatched so quickly after Ben got the saber. If you're one of the KOR, and you're watching your buddies get f'd up because Ben has superior melee abilities, then you're using the Force to try to subdue him. Otherwise, Luke was indeed a failed teacher.

I do understand your point, though, and it's fair enough. But I also have a strong sense that JJ never wanted the KOR to be Luke's students. And the LFL visual dictionaries and other published material seems to support the idea that they weren't. Even if that makes the "handful of students" reference in TLJ stick out like a sore thumb now.

 

[Khev]

I might be inclined to agree with you if they weren't dispatched so quickly after Ben got the saber. If you're one of the KOR, and you're watching your buddies get f'd up because Ben has superior melee abilities, then you're using the Force to try to subdue him. Otherwise, Luke was indeed a failed teacher.

Eh, that's like saying that when Luke went off on Vader in ROTJ that Vader should have just said "Holy crap what the hell Luke, chill!" and Force pushed him across the room. If DARTH VADER THE CHOSEN ONE can get flustered and caught flat-footed for a prolonged barrage of attacks then I'm more than fine with Ben getting the drop on a handful of Luke's former padawans for a few quick seconds, lol.

I do understand your point, though, and it's fair enough. But I also have a strong sense that JJ never wanted the KOR to be Luke's students. And the LFL visual dictionaries and other published material seems to support the idea that they weren't. Even if that makes the "handful of students" reference in TLJ stick out like a sore thumb now.

As far as I'm concerned the fact that the LFL "Story Group" disagrees with me just proves that I'm right.

 

[YoNoSe]

It's so funny that after 3 movies with multiple screenwriters, ancillary novels & comics & a dedicated story group there are no clear answers to this question.

****ing "story" group.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

BTW I voted "no" cos then we wouldn't have got those sweet Praetorian Guard designs.

Those guys looked like shellfish that took up sharp weapons.

 

[Khev]

It's so funny that after 3 movies with multiple screenwriters, ancillary novels & comics & a dedicated story group there are no clear answers to this question.

****ing "story" group.

We have a clear answer. Those with STDS just like to ignore what was openly stated in the films so that they can invent-I mean find yet another thing to criticize about them...

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I saw DM in concert three separate times in the 90's/early 2000's.

So you have poor taste in music too?

 

[The Buffinator]

So you have poor taste in music too?

Hey, a breakthrough - something we agree on!

Sorry, Khev!

 

[ajp4mgs]

We have a clear answer. Those with STDS just like to ignore what was openly stated in the films so that they can invent-I mean find yet another thing to criticize about them...

Even the TLJ reference itself was ambiguous. The line from Luke about Ben leaving with a handful of his students is not the same as saying, "Ben left with some of my other students who went on to become the Knights of Ren."

Sure, that's what RJ was intending to make them, but JJ was well within his right to say "**** that!" and go back to his original intentions for the KOR. JJ never wanted them to be Luke's pupils, and he sure as hell didn't put anything in TROS to suggest that they were.

Then LFL cemented it by confirming their origin being something else. In official canon, they were *not* Luke's students. And that's a good thing IMO because wasting Luke Skywalker's only living former students the way the KOR were would be awful. This way, Luke's former pupils are still out there (maybe having renounced Kylo, or escaped his grasp, at some point).

But I love your good-natured trolling jab with "We have a clear answer." At least I *hope* it was good-natured. You make these debates fun.

 

[Khev]

It's funny my tastes really shifted in the 90's to all those alternative/folksy bands like Dave Matthews, Toad the Wet Sprocket, BNL, Counting Grows and all those guys (never got caught up in the Hootie craze though) but now the only CD's I have in my car are all back to the rock I listened to prior to that. Johnny Cash, Queen, GNR, Poison, etc.

 

[Prime Clone]

I did too! But I googled it before posting so I didn't get an "actually...." nerd-trigger auto response.

#MeToo

 

[Khev]

Even the TLJ reference itself was ambiguous. The line from Luke about Ben leaving with a handful of his students is not the same as saying, "Ben left with some of my other students who went on to become the Knights of Ren."

Sure, that's what RJ was intending to make them, but JJ was well within his right to say "**** that!" and go back to his original intentions for the KOR. JJ never wanted them to be Luke's pupils, and he sure as hell didn't put anything in TROS to suggest that they were.

Then LFL cemented it by confirming their origin being something else. In official canon, they were *not* Luke's students. And that's a good thing IMO because wasting Luke Skywalker's only living former students the way the KOR were would be awful. This way, Luke's former pupils are still out there (maybe having renounced Kylo, or escaped his grasp, at some point).

But I love your good-natured trolling jab with "We have a clear answer." At least I *hope* it was good-natured. You make these debates fun.

Ha ha, I love your good-natured troll acting like the answer on screen wasn't clear. Always the comedian ajp.



In all seriousness do you have a quote of JJ saying that he "never wanted them to be Luke's pupils?"

 

[Prime Clone]

The canon comics (which you're free to disregard ) show the KOR existed before Luke's academy - Ben even fought against them beside Luke.

The "Ren" is a lighsaber blade - and a man!