Sideshow ESB/ROTJ Darth Vader

[Mad Old Lu]

If hot toys can create a well sculpted $250 retail dx figure with a 4led light up base and multiple parts

Then sideshow should be able to do the same...maybe they have to hire even better sculptors or engineers to design, but it doesn't mean the improvements mean it'd be super expensive.

In other words, it's been done before...iron man figures are terribly complex with all that armor that has to hinge and fit together and led light up parts.. for sideshow the real challenge with vader is that the look is so distinct, they've got to get it looking right with the right proportions...no complex hinges or hydraulic dampers on his armour.

It can be done, but are they willing to go through the trouble with all their other projects in development, considering the staff is not huge?

But Iron Man is a whole different animal. It's one thing to have the lights shoot out from the forearms, chest and head in a broad general dispersement of light, but it's another to have the light travel up a skinny plastic rod and still look good. I believe it was mentioned originally HT Luke was supposed to have a light up saber, and HT admitted that they couldn't figure out how to do it in a way they were happy with. Medicom does it, but people aren't that happy with how big the hilt is, or the general overall effect. Sideshow's Obi-Wan managed to do it by having the lightsaber, hand and forearm all be one piece, but people complained about the thickness of the blade. Even the cathode blades, which look awesome, still have their drawbacks, as has been noted here.

The point is that you're right in that it has been done before, but the majority of the people out there weren't happy with the results. Sideshow saw first-hand at how UN-popular Obi-Wan and the lit saber ended up being, and decided it wasn't worth the money to add the extra accessory that only a small percentage of people liked or were even asking for. I'm positive if Obi-Wan had sold out immediately and the positive word-of-mouth was through the roof, they would be doing it to every light-saber-wielding figure going forward. As it stands, Obi-Wan is still available.

Believe me, the light-up feature has been a source of debate for years around here. The general consensus has been that it's simply not worth the extra money it would add to a figure (because it absolutely would add to the price). Most of us here really do just play with those light up features in the beginning, then loose interest and even go as far as removing the batteries in order to avoid them leaking. I personally don't really have any interest in a light-up saber either.

By the way, do you guys, Leon911 and demorathis, have Sideshow's Obi-Wan figure with the light-up saber? I'm curious to know what you guys thought of it.

 

[DGTWoodward]

Spoiler

But Iron Man is a whole different animal. It's one thing to have the lights shoot out from the forearms, chest and head in a broad general dispersement of light, but it's another to have the light travel up a skinny plastic rod and still look good. I believe it was mentioned originally HT Luke was supposed to have a light up saber, and HT admitted that they couldn't figure out how to do it in a way they were happy with. Medicom does it, but people aren't that happy with how big the hilt is, or the general overall effect. Sideshow's Obi-Wan managed to do it by having the lightsaber, hand and forearm all be one piece, but people complained about the thickness of the blade. Even the cathode blades, which look awesome, still have their drawbacks, as has been noted here.

The point is that you're right in that it has been done before, but the majority of the people out there weren't happy with the results. Sideshow saw first-hand at how UN-popular Obi-Wan and the lit saber ended up being, and decided it wasn't worth the money to add the extra accessory that only a small percentage of people liked or were even asking for. I'm positive if Obi-Wan had sold out immediately and the positive word-of-mouth was through the roof, they would be doing it to every light-saber-wielding figure going forward. As it stands, Obi-Wan is still available.

Believe me, the light-up feature has been a source of debate for years around here. The general consensus has been that it's simply not worth the extra money it would add to a figure (because it absolutely would add to the price). Most of us here really do just play with those light up features in the beginning, then loose interest and even go as far as removing the batteries in order to avoid them leaking. I personally don't really have any interest in a light-up saber either.

By the way, do you guys, Leon911 and demorathis, have Sideshow's Obi-Wan figure with the light-up saber? I'm curious to know what you guys thought of it.

<<<Condensed for space>>>#

I'm not one of the mentioned few there, but I do have it and I have activated it once only...when I first bought it. It looked better than expected, but not really good enough to put out on display.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Thanks for chiming in, DGTW. I just took a quick look at the Obi-Wan thread and it looks like the light-up feature was very well received. The thickness of the blade was the chief complaint on it.

I'm sure Sideshow would have included it with Vader and Malgus if the response had been overwhelming. But because the response has been merely "Nice--better than expected" they probably felt it would add too much to the already-high cost of these guys.

 

[demorathis]

But Iron Man is a whole different animal. It's one thing to have the lights shoot out from the forearms, chest and head in a broad general dispersement of light, but it's another to have the light travel up a skinny plastic rod and still look good. I believe it was mentioned originally HT Luke was supposed to have a light up saber, and HT admitted that they couldn't figure out how to do it in a way they were happy with. Medicom does it, but people aren't that happy with how big the hilt is, or the general overall effect. Sideshow's Obi-Wan managed to do it by having the lightsaber, hand and forearm all be one piece, but people complained about the thickness of the blade. Even the cathode blades, which look awesome, still have their drawbacks, as has been noted here.

The point is that you're right in that it has been done before, but the majority of the people out there weren't happy with the results. Sideshow saw first-hand at how UN-popular Obi-Wan and the lit saber ended up being, and decided it wasn't worth the money to add the extra accessory that only a small percentage of people liked or were even asking for. I'm positive if Obi-Wan had sold out immediately and the positive word-of-mouth was through the roof, they would be doing it to every light-saber-wielding figure going forward. As it stands, Obi-Wan is still available.

Believe me, the light-up feature has been a source of debate for years around here. The general consensus has been that it's simply not worth the extra money it would add to a figure (because it absolutely would add to the price). Most of us here really do just play with those light up features in the beginning, then loose interest and even go as far as removing the batteries in order to avoid them leaking. I personally don't really have any interest in a light-up saber either.

By the way, do you guys, Leon911 and demorathis, have Sideshow's Obi-Wan figure with the light-up saber? I'm curious to know what you guys thought of it.

That's the thing...it doesn't have to be a whole different animal...I have the eFx sabers...they are led stringed gadgets...

The effect can be created for the 1/6 lightsaber...with a string of mini LEDs like the eFx sabers...doesnt have to be cathode...now...considering the technology is possibly proprietary, are they willing to pay for the license? If it is not proprietary, then they can easily replicate the method...cheaply...

(Sometimes we forget that that these things can be manufactured cheaply...not because they are cheap to begin with, unfortunately it's built into the system...
China who manufactures over 90 percent of things we find in most stores do not have the same kinds of restrictions, labor practices, environmental laws we have to abide by here...that's the real reason it is less expensive to manufacture overseas...it is cheaper and companies here either don't have the money to manufacture in the u.s., OR bigger companies want to get the cheapest rate, regardless if they contribute to the slave caste systems they have in countries were the poor are exploited...let's not kid ourselves, and I am not mincing words...people in communist countries who make our products, paid cents a day because they have no choice, are slaves--They are told the day are born what they will be doing for the rest of their lives)...

They can afford to sell collectibles at premiums because the demand shows collectors have been willing to pay the exorbitant amounts...collectors have a habit that needs a fix, and sometimes the logic slaps that habit back into reality...the stuff is priced to make max profit, whether or not we as collectors can easily afford to buy.

Bottom line...it can be done cost effectively, if they really wanted to do it right...

 

[Mad Old Lu]

That's the thing...it doesn't have to be a whole different animal...

The effect can be created for the lightsaber...with a string of mini LEDs like the eFx sabers...doesnt have to be cathode...now...considering the technology is possibly proprietary, are they willing to pay for the license? If it is not proprietary, then they can easily replicate the method...cheaply...

(Sometimes we forget that that these things can be manufactured cheaply...not because they are cheap to begin with, unfortunately it's built into the system...
China who manufactures over 90 percent of things we find in most stores do not have the same kinds of restrictions, labor practices, environmental laws we have to abide by here...that's the real reason it is less expensive to manufacture overseas...)

They can afford to sell collectibles at premiums because the demand shows collectors have been willing to pay the exorbitant amounts...collectors have a habit that needs a fix, and sometimes the logic slaps that habit back into reality...the stuff is priced to make max profit, whether or not we as collectors can easily afford to buy.

Is that how they are?

Anyway, eFX sabers are $100. Now to miniaturize that tech, it'll probably cost twice as much.

Sure, it's possible that the manufacturing MAY be cheaper than they let on. But most of the time, we in the high-end collectibles field are paying for up-front overhead costs like R&D, design, top-end sculptors and painters, etc. So even IF you could manufacture a 1/6 version of the eFX saber in a relatively cheap way, it would cost the consumer a small mint because of the cost of hiring someone to devote several months of work to shrink the tech.

 

[lerath666]

... I am yet to see a good light up sabre and i think with the kind of wait it had, they would have really made something kewl. It's definitely possible not sure why they don't make it!


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so we are ok with a red piece of plastic depicting a sabre which was the coolest part for those times. beats me! As for cost its 250 odd... So donno...


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Hmm...

1) Why can't they insert lights at both ends and see how it looks? ...
2) As for not looking good in daylight or when not lit, extra saber can be provided for that part.
3) I dont think that piece of plastic cost anything to manufacture. All i am saying is they can try some options, if it looks bad a cheap "current option" can always be provided as an extra... It would increase the cost of a 250 dollar figure by may be a buck or so...

I dont mean to create a racket but i think it would be awesome to have a lighted sabre, they even light the hands of those iron man creatures which i care two hoots for ...


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Yawn... Do you work for sideshow? ... Oh i remember you are the verbal diarrhea fellow... Get back to laughing by the way...

Also i thought you were blocking people? Or may be just lying about it ... Correct me if i am wrong arnt you the guy who use to write on forums in the 80s or something or so you told all of us? ... I remember you blocking a whole lot of people on other threads, so why unblock them? Or just plain simple gas ...

I made a simple suggestion... If figures can come with two sculpts, two costumes why not two sabers.., do you change costumes twice a day on your figures? I think i may be talking school grade, but i personally think you need to learn to talk first... Rest we will discuss later...



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Like it or hate it, he's right. Including a second saber can work, but in the case of the recent sideshow Ob-wan, the lit and unlit sabers end up being much larger to accomidate the electronics ( unlit, becuase they use the same mold as the lit hilt)
And this ends up with them looking oversized, and well, cheap.

Light travels in a straight line, but fades as it gets closer to the end, so the blade when lit, looks OK at best.

The trick would be to have a consistant light source lit all along the length of the blade. The problem there is the RnD required to find a way to incorporate the solution into the figure, and keep costs low enough that it remains profitable.

The solution that jumps to my mind is casting EL wire inside Transparent resin tubing.

Which would likely be cost-prohibitive.

Next point.

If hot toys can create a well sculpted $250 retail dx figure with a 4led light up base and multiple parts

Then sideshow should be able to do the same...maybe they have to hire even better sculptors or engineers to design, but it doesn't mean the improvements mean it'd be super expensive.

AHH Hot toys. The "Gods" of 1/6th. The made a star wars figure. It included a lightsaber. The lightsaber didn't light up. When asked why, Howard chan responded that they were unable to find a soltuin that " did not look bad" so they left that feature out. Something worth considering.

 

[Leon 911]

Like it or hate it, he's right. Including a second saber can work, but in the case of the recent sideshow Ob-wan, the lit and unlit sabers end up being much larger to accomidate the electronics ( unlit, becuase they use the same mold as the lit hilt)
And this ends up with them looking oversized, and well, cheap.

Light travels in a straight line, but fades as it gets closer to the end, so the blade when lit, looks OK at best.

The trick would be to have a consistant light source lit all along the length of the blade. The problem there is the RnD required to find a way to incorporate the solution into the figure, and keep costs low enough that it remains profitable.

The solution that jumps to my mind is casting EL wire inside Transparent resin tubing.

Which would likely be cost-prohibitive.

Next point.

.

See this is a constructive response. As for cost, they (ht) tried pers and while people are divided am sure it was a great step. They tried real hair vs sculpted hair, people are divided and yet they keep exploring. I understand the cost will go high but am sure there is a huge margin in this business. Also, they charge us 250 compared to 100 plus two odd years ago... So am sure they need to put more and more skin in the game. Just cause i say they need to try more doesn't mean i dont like them. I like them and i buy from them and hence i want them to get better and better. I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong but its the sarcastic comments that kinda take the fun away from all of this. Also, if they give up, we will never get a good lighted sabre and to get there may be we will need to have some mediocre ones. When I said one buck i meant that extra unlit saber wont cost them more than a buck knowing where it's manufactured.

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[lerath666]

Production costs per saber with lights are probably closer to 5-10$, before,you,factor,in r&d, to be fair.

 

[Leon 911]

Production costs per saber with lights are probably closer to 5-10$, before,you,factor,in r&d, to be fair.

Thanks. Hmm... 5-10 for with light or without light? If its with light than probably the unlit one would be a buck or two so not a big deal. Also 5 dollar over 250 is about 2 pct of the cost. All in all its 1/4 of the tax we will pay in california. I think with the right discoveries and attempt costs can always be lowered ... Whole less than sum of parts ... Economies of scale. As for r and d ... I understand that part, but its a cost of doing business.

See i get it if people dont want it, i respect that. I am against people just throwing things all over cause someone has a point or differs with them or is even wrong. Its easy to laugh behind a computer screen ... For most i guess...


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[Pixelpiper]

Unfortunately you can't light a 1/6 saber with a string of miniature LEDs. They don't exist in a size small enough to pull off the illusion. And China is not a magical place where everything costs nothing to produce. Once you've had hardware custom built in China, or you work in an industry that does, you'll know this. Tossing an LED into something here and there like Hot Toys' products adds minimal amount of cost to a bill of materials, more significant is the development and tooling. But such LED use is a far cry from what would be required to make a very nice lit saber. Can we get this straight: You can't create a good looking lit saber with a couple of LEDs.

No one has even bothered to mention the added costs of production involved in housing batteries, running wires within the figure or under clothing, etc. An extra dollar here and there adds up quickly, and on a retail $200 figure, believe me, $5 manufacturing cost is a BIG deal.

 

[pixletwin]

Wow I can't think of a better way to spend my non-working minutes than to read a beotchy exchange between Leon and piper. TODAY WAS MY LUCKY DAY!!!!

EVeryone totally cares about your hurted feelings and we all want to read about it here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank. YOU!

 

[joda76]

Warm Regards,

Your uneducated, illiterate, BS giving, DipS**t, whining baby, school boy

Friend...

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that was a good one, sorry.

 

[lerath666]

Thanks. Hmm... 5-10 for with light or without light? If its with light than probably the unlit one would be a buck or two so not a big deal. Also 5 dollar over 250 is about 2 pct of the cost. All in all its 1/4 of the tax we will pay in california. I think with the right discoveries and attempt costs can always be lowered ... Whole less than sum of parts ... Economies of scale. As for r and d ... I understand that part, but its a cost of doing business.

See i get it if people dont want it, i respect that. I am against people just throwing things all over cause someone has a point or differs with them or is even wrong. Its easy to laugh behind a computer screen ... For most i guess...


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Without a light. The detail, and multiple parts that go into the sideshow sabers is REALLY impressive. there is an image floating around on these forums of all the different parts disaasembled. and there are quite a few.

They COULD just make it as one solid piece to cut corners on costs, but then the end result wouldn't look as good.

There is also the extensive paintwork that goes into these things.



Adding in electronics, and the housing for them, and everything else, The sabers would likely be close to 3 times the cost each to produce. That's where you hit the snag.

YES, Labor is cheap in asia... IF you buy in hundreds of thousands to millions of units. Sideshow pieces are made in the 1k-5k range. so it costs them ALOT more.


Pixel, on size of LED's.. you'd be suprised. LED's come AMAZNGLY small.

LASTLY, this is EL wire. Put this in a solid plastic housing, and we would be VERY close to good sabers that lit up.

ANd YES, you CAN get it smaller than that.

 

[lerath666]

Final thought. I'm AGAINST light up lightsabers on 1/6th figures, UNLESS

1) unlit it resembles the ones we already have, OR include an additional one that looks like the ones we already have.

2) NO WIRES. it must all be internal to the saber and hilt

3) the Figure is not comprimised. no articulation reduction, ETC.

4) IT dosn't effect the price significangtly. a 25$ increase I can swallow. a 50-100$ one i cannot.

5) the light must maintain brightness for the ENTIRE length of the blade. Do it Right, or not at all.

6) NO hasbro sabers. They need to look in-scale, and noght like a Fleshlight with a pvc pipe stuck in it.

 

[FLOSI]

Two things:

1.) It's not the saber blade itself but the power source that creates issues with a light up saber design. Taking out the entire lower arm of a figure just isn't that easy an option, IMO.... Of course I display my figures without lit sabers as it tends to take away from the illusion of realism when they're holding onto a 6" colored stick.

2.) Leon 911 & pixelpiper, please take any arguments you two might be having to PM or just drop it altogether. I'll be cleaning up the unneeded posts and would rather not have to do it again.

 

[Leon 911]

Two things:

2.) Leon 911 & pixelpiper, please take any arguments you two might be having to PM or just drop it altogether. I'll be cleaning up the unneeded posts and would rather not have to do it again.

I agree and i am sorry. I just dint like being called so many names. Once again its a rare and am sorry! ...


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[FLOSI]

It happens.

 

[Lejuan]

This is a firefly in a jar. I can't see why they couldn't get really small fireflies and put them in a tiny tube. The main problem is Darth Vader's light sabre is red, and I'm not too sure about how easily a firefly's luceferin molecules can be manipulated to emit just the red spectrum.

 

[Batty]

The way this thread exploded over the last 24 hours, I thought maybe there were new pics.

 

[pixletwin]

The way this thread exploded over the last 24 hours, I thought maybe there were new pics.

I for one have enjoyed this thread. We should rename it, remove it to Other Discussions, and let piper and leon have a real heart 2 heart.