Sideshow Hoth Han Solo (Echo Base)

[Asta]

Well, McQuarries concept art for the movie was blue. He was given those early costume designs to work with, so someone intended it to be blue. Before the shoot.

Also, it's clearly blue in quite a few publicity shots from the era. Yes, these could have been color graded to make the coat blue. But the point is, the coat is blue, they wanted it to be blue. These shots are exterior with no overhead lighting, so any conversations about the coat being blue just because of set lighting are silly IMO. If the coat they shot was indeed brown, they purposely changed the color in post.

Pre-production has no bearing upon what actually made it onto the screen.

There was never any implication that the blue was derived solely from set lighting.

The exterior shots are colour timed to be so blue that everything is blue regardless of the colour you know it to be from certain interior shots.

The miniature was obviously filmed under different conditions. A blue coat would probably have assisted in matching the live action shots.

Harrison/Han wears a brown coat. You can see it's brown inside Echo base when not under blue lighting, and you can see it's brown outside when the scenes aren't manufactured blue.

So it brings me back to the carbon freezing chamber, in which most of the actors appear to be wearing orange clothing. To be accurate Sideshow's blue-coated Han ought also to have blue tinged everything else. Though it would be simpler to use a blue bulb in your display. Or an orange one if you were depicting a carbon freezing chamber scene.

This is a question of what you see on screen at any one moment, as opposed to what you know you would be seeing if the shots had not been manipulated.

It would be similar to a night time scene in a film, in which colours would be subdued, yet you'll have a better idea of what the colours really are when seen under natural light elsewhere in the film.

 

[Rorywan]

Pre-production has no bearing upon what actually made it onto the screen.

There was never any implication that the blue was derived solely from set lighting.

The exterior shots are colour timed to be so blue that everything is blue regardless of the colour you know it to be from certain interior shots.

The miniature was obviously filmed under different conditions. A blue coat would probably have assisted in matching the live action shots.

Harrison/Han wears a brown coat. You can see it's brown inside Echo base when not under blue lighting, and you can see it's brown outside when the scenes aren't manufactured blue.



So it brings me back to the carbon freezing chamber, in which most of the actors appear to be wearing orange clothing. To be accurate Sideshow's blue-coated Han ought also to have blue tinged everything else. Though it would be simpler to use a blue bulb in your display. Or an orange one if you were depicting a carbon freezing chamber scene.

This is a question of what you see on screen at any one moment, as opposed to what you know you would be seeing if the shots had not been manipulated.

It would be similar to a night time scene in a film, in which colours would be subdued, yet you'll have a better idea of what the colours really are when seen under natural light elsewhere in the film.

Of course pre-production has a bearing. It was blue in pre-production (McQuarrie), it was blue in post production (The Tauntaun Stop Motion puppet) and it was blue on screen.

If that doesn't show clear intent, i don't know what does.

I'm not saying if the prop/costume was brown or blue when they were shooting, it makes no difference.
Otherwise, we would all have Ahmed Best toys on our shelves instead of all those Jar-Jars.

Listen, I have no doubt the film was color corrected, all films are. I work in the film biz. I know how it works. Anyone on here who knows photoshop will tell you the same, you have to intentionally isolate colors to change them like that. TK/telecine/Color Timing works on exactly the same principal. To color time that coat from brown to blue, it was a conscious decision, not an overall color grade. To do it correctly you have to isolate the coat color as a separate layer and regrade that. Otherwise everything would be blue and the skin tones would be ****ed.

Stage lighting will effect color on film, but it's a completely different ballgame. What happened most likely is that the film stock they used for Hoth (daylight exposure) came out looking pretty warm and milky after processing, it tends to do that. And they had to compensate as a result, which would explain the brown/blue differences.

The Carbon chamber is not a good example at all. it was gel'd in fiery oranges and reds. These colors affected everything on set. Without second position lighting (pale white reflectors for faces) everything would have been warm and dark.

It's DOP stuff. Empire is still the most beautiful of all the Star wars movies because it was lit properly in old school movie style.
Classic lighting from a classic director. The coat was not blue by accident.

 

[davejames]

I have a feeling that even if we had a time machine and all went back to watch the movie on opening day, we'd still disagree about what color we're seeing.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

I personally like and am getting the blue coat. TBH I probably never gave it a second thought when I first saw ESB in 1980 at age 9. I had the action figure and it had a blue coat. I had the comic book and it was blue there too. In all the subsequent viewings of ESB I never even gave it a second thought about the color until a few years ago and I came across the debate somewhere online. I see slight brown highlights now that I am hyper-aware of it, and I also indisputably see blue in some scenes as well.

Regardless, I like the blue coat and I think it looks closer to what's onscreen simply because it's a nice, dark rich blue. Onscreen the coat looks practically black anyway.

So, I present this question: would anyone have liked it if the brown coat was actually much darker? Like, practically black so it looks closer to what's onscreen? Or are you happy simply knowing the SS coat matches the prop even though it doesn't really look like that in the movie?

 

[Asta]

Just saw Mad Old Lu's signature...Sideshow's Tauntaun is inaccurate.

The idiots at Sideshow didn't paint it blue.

Will this madness never end?

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Just saw Mad Old Lu's signature...Sideshow's Tauntaun is inaccurate.

The idiots at Sideshow didn't paint it blue.

Will this madness never end?

 

[davejames]

Of course pre-production has a bearing. It was blue in pre-production (McQuarrie), it was blue in post production (The Tauntaun Stop Motion puppet) and it was blue on screen.
I'm not saying if the prop/costume was brown or blue when they were shooting, it makes no difference.
Otherwise, we would all have Ahmed Best toys on our shelves instead of all those Jar-Jars.

I think it's a bit early to say definitively that it appeared blue on screen though. There are some video sources that point in that direction, and others that point in the direction of brown. It certainly appears brown on my old VHS, for instance. And in the theatrical versions released a few years ago on DVD. And not just a hint of brown either, but clearly very brown.

 

[Asta]

So, I present this question: would anyone have liked it if the brown coat was actually much darker? Like, practically black so it looks closer to what's onscreen? Or are you happy simply knowing the SS coat matches the prop even though it doesn't really look like that in the movie?

If what Sideshow have shown is an accurate reflection of what they're making, then the brown coat is a good replica of what's seen on screen.

From this

to this:

As for the blue I don't know whether they've shown anything but photoshops yet.

What they have shown goes from very dark,

to a nice blue:

Can't wait to get them.

 

[davejames]

For me the ideal color would simply be a dark bluish brown. Unfortunately neither of the options Sideshow is giving us come even close to that.

 

[Rorywan]

This is what mine is gonna look like (eventually)

 

[Pixelpiper]

You can pick up blue tint from every object in this scene, including Han's hair (some of the exact same hues as in the coat and scarves). I think someone forgot to make all the trooper scarves blue.



And as he finishes the conversation and rounds the corner



It's a similar situation as he's talking to Chewie when he first comes in and just before he leaves again - the coat can be seen picking up tint as he walks around the set.

If Sideshow's brown isn't dark enough, it would still make a decent platform for weathering. That supposes they use the same fabric shown on the prototype, never mind the blue one which hasn't been shown yet except for the Photoshop edits.

 

[Rorywan]

Of course there was cool gelled lighting used throughout the Hoth sequences. And yes, it helped to add a cool grade to the film. No film gel/daylight gel would create an isolated change like that. Not possible. The entire picture would be heavily effected. Also, If you graded that picture as a whole, or had a blue light strong enough to change brown to blue independently of deliberate separation, their faces would be cyan, his hair would be blue.. everything.

You have to separate the elements in a piece of film to make a change that drastic. It's common knowledge to anyone who knows about photo manipulation or film color timing. You can increase the overall saturation in a shot, but separation either chromatic or masked is needed to make a change like that. 35/75mm Film doesn't work that way.

Anyway NONE of this is relevant. This is all that matters:

It was intended to be blue, because someone had to do it deliberately. Ergo, the filmmakers wanted a blue-coat, Han Solo's Hoth coat is blue.



Blue lights will saturate everything in a hue not make certain objects/areas change and not others. It's all about color values.

 

[Asta]

 

[Rorywan]

......

Anyway **** the coat lets worry about the head sculpt!

 

[Asta]

......

Anyway **** the coat lets worry about the head sculpt!

 

[Captain Britain]

......

Anyway **** the coat lets worry about the head sculpt!

Yeah, that shouldn't be brown either but it is.

 

[jedijim3002]

You guys are frickin hilarious!!! I love the nerd arguing about the coat. I got the blue one cause I like it better. What's funny is this debate has been going on for a looooooong time. I found this thread and just laughed.
Nash, TN - Han Solo on Hoth - Blue or Brown coat? | Jedi Council Forums

 

[jedijim3002]

Please note this was in 2003. Capitalism at its best.

 

[jedijim3002]

I honestly never thought this was an issue until I saw the replica costumes on display at celebration three in Indianapolis Indiana in 2004. I took one look at the brown coat and thought what the hell!!!

 

[jedijim3002]

1980-2003
George Lucas approved:

2003-present
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