SideShow is this the reason why Dutch wasn't at SDCC 12 ?

[Vaako]

That's why you shouldn't buy anything from Sideshow unless it's either wearing a mask or a helmet.

sad but true...

 

[RobertoBagg10]

That's why you shouldn't buy anything from Sideshow unless it's either wearing a mask or a helmet. If you must buy something unmasked, get Nick Fury.

Eye dont believe it!

 

[Red Metal]

It's sad that at one point, likeness issues were the biggest concern. Now an issue so blatantly obvious as eyes being painted straight is the biggest concern - something far less subjective and more easily remedied.

It's a Catch-22. PO the figure sight-unseen and hope for the best, knowing that you can return it if it's faulty; but you'll have to go thru all that hassle. Or wait for in-hand pics and possibly risk losing out altogether as these figures get lower and lower production runs.

That's why you shouldn't buy anything from Sideshow unless it's either wearing a mask or a helmet. If you must buy something unmasked, get Nick Fury.

Well, at least with Nick, they have a better chance of getting the eye right - they only have to paint one.

 

[noizyboi]

Crazy eyes...

Repaint...

Jesus wept... that was terrible. Glad whoever repainted that head was skilled enough to make it right, the before picture reminds me of that lil ole Spanish lady who went and did this to a 19th century Frescoe. No comparison between Jesus and Downey Jr. but you get it right?

Apart from the obvious crazy eyes, it looked like some kid had just slapped on some skin toned paint for the face and then colored in the beard and mustache with a black marker. *smh* weird...

 

[devilof76]

How much of a damn do you think a Chinese factory worker gives about a statue that's going to be sold by an American company for as much as Sideshow does, to people who can afford to drop so much on something so (ultimately) superficial?

 

[noizyboi]

How much of a damn do you think a Chinese factory worker gives about a statue that's going to be sold by an American company for as much as Sideshow does, to people who can afford to drop so much on something so (ultimately) superficial?

True enough, but then again my friend, when someone like you and I spend our hard earned cash on anything, superficial or not, we'd like to get the best value for money. Having lived awhile in China before returning home, I can tell you that it's not like all these factory workers are working in dingy sweatshops, undernourished people shuffling around in their paper slippers like in a movie about the holocaust. In fact, their safety standards are sometimes more stringent than ours.

Most earn quite decent salaries by their standards. (I would know because one of my family's businesses involves subcontracting some mechanical components in factories in Tianjin, and visited several others for a variety of projects)...coming back to figures, if you take a look at the figures in small curio shops and even sold on the road for pennies in our currency, the smallest hand painted Kabuki dolls or replica swords and other weapons in places like the Cultural District in Tianjin or Beijing, go into even the tiniest details. So imagine the quality of some of their "high-end" figures.

In China, they have 3 qualities for anything they produce. Original, Medium quality and low quality, most of us see the lower end products and assume that everything else is the same, which is not the case. If you want cheap, you get cheap. if you want quality, pay more... but I digress..

Whatever the case, the ultimate responsibility of giving the customers what they pay for is upto Sideshow. poor workmanship is not acceptable. ever. It's not like these figures cost $10 a piece.

I haven't been here long, but it's unsettling that from some threads I read, some collectors are reluctant to voice their concerns about the quality of the figures they buy, sometimes conceding beforehand that Sideshow "doesn't care what customers think" or implying that we have to take what we get. Bad precedent...

Imho history has proven time and time again that even titans in industry, have had their fortunes change and lost ground to the competition for not heeding their customers needs, if anyone should be concerned, it's them. It's not like SSC is the only company out there anymore who can reproduce replicas, figures and statues. There's already signs of new companies from, yes, China who are more than willing to bend over backwards and do it cheaper than anyone else, and more than willing to take business away from SSC.

If anyone from SSC is reading this, it's not negative criticism, it's constructive criticism, one you would do well to heed, not just my words, but every single person who takes the effort to point something out.

Having said that, I have so far not had any negative experiences with SSC, and don't expect to. I'm not the type of person to b&#ch and moan if I see a smidgen of paint run over from one seam to another, but I would seriously be pissed to put it mildly and vocal about it to open my package after months of anticipation to find a cross eyed Rogue or Tony Stark. These aren't toys, they're collectibles....

As long as SSC delivers what they promise, and not take the community for mindless chumps, they'll continue to do just fine... If they don't respect the concerns of it's client base, then people would eventually drift off to find someone who gives them what they want. It's as simple as that.

 

[noizyboi]

cross-eyed Tony... What on earth was the guy painting his eyes smoking?

 

[King Darkness]

Words

 

[noizyboi]

Words

glad you agree!

 

[devilof76]

I've been here for five years and I've watched the quality discussion hit all ends of a multi-axis spectrum. The best I've been able to surmise is that Sideshow has difficulty controlling the performance of their factories. I'm aware that Chinese factories are capable of producing fine work. I'm also aware that there are many that have no compunction about screwing over their American employers, insofar as they can get away with it. There is a limit to how many times Sideshow can discard a production run if it's not up to par. That limit gets tighter as economic conditions in the west deteriorate.

From a business perspective, yes, the buck stops with Sideshow. From the perspective of simple economic reality, that buck is in steady decline.

 

[noizyboi]

I've been here for five years and I've watched the quality discussion hit all ends of a multi-axis spectrum. The best I've been able to surmise is that Sideshow has difficulty controlling the performance of their factories. I'm aware that Chinese factories are capable of producing fine work. I'm also aware that there are many that have no compunction about screwing over their American employers, insofar as they can get away with it. There is a limit to how many times Sideshow can discard a production run if it's not up to par. That limit gets tighter as economic conditions in the west deteriorate.

From a business perspective, yes, the buck stops with Sideshow. From the perspective of simple economic reality, that buck is in steady decline.

I seriously don't get you my friend... First of all, are you saying that it's OK or acceptable for Side Show to send someone a messed up figure like that, to an unsuspecting collector? No one's asking them to discard a production run. I don't think anyone here would want or expect THAT.

However, I believe it's safe to assume that 99.999% (allowing for a bizarre minority) expect their Premium format figures or even regular versions of it, which can cost anywhere from $350 - $1000 and above would arrive looking

a.) as advertised and
b.) worth the money we spent on it.

I am not talking about minor bleeding of paint from one section to the other, but serious mistakes like the examples above and from the thread by the Italian collector who wrote a long and descriptive letter of fellow collectors from Italy, and their unfortunate experiences. We could dismiss it all if this was limited to one or two such instances, but it seems like this is happening more and more often than not.

I could understand and imagine if you're intention is only to play the devils advocate here, but my friend, but even then, it seems you are discounting the people who are really affected in the end, not sideshow, but US - you and me.

I can't imagine you'd be happy or ok with seeing something like the above examples after spending hundreds, even thousands of your hard-earned money in your hands, or not expecting it to be at least with a decent finish, if not perfect for the money you spent on it.

I disagree. the buck stops and rests with SSC from start to finish. If they charge us premium prices, then we have the right to demand premium quality.

It's ludicrous to blame it one some nameless, faceless, Chinese factory worker/boogeyman as being responsible for SSC's declining standards.

If as you say these Chinese Bogeymen are deliberately sabotaging their products, why aren't SSC taking action? And how in the blue blazes did it become our problem that SSC can't maintain proper QC's of their products?! It's up to them to make sure their customers back home get what they paid for.

As a customer, I want what I paid for, nothing more, nothing less.

As far as I know, the Chinese government may have a love/hate relationship with the US, but the common people LOVE American culture and want to emulate it, they want to be as American as they possibly can be and they spend thousands of Yuan to learn to talk with an American accent and to dress like American Celebs, so forgive me for being skeptical of laying the blame on Anti-American sentiments making them want to went their rage towards "Capitalist Americans" or whatever stereotypical Hollywood notions we have of Communist China, wanting to make a statement by giving Tony Stark googly/crazy eyes!

To be honest, most middle class and upper-middle class Chinese today would walk into a department store and spend typically 8000 Yuan ($1,282.75) a piece on clothing that would cost 1/2 the value it would cost in the US, and buy 4 or 5 of them, simply for the novelty of wearing "Genuine American" brands.

I'm not Chinese or an admirer of them and their ways, in case anyone is wondering, but I am just saying that China and Chinese manufacturing has come a very long way from what it was a decade ago. Blaming poor QC by SSC solely on the place of manufacture doesn't make sense to someone like me, who's been there and seen it all with my own eyes.

I just wanna say that I have nothing against your POV, I'm not gunning for you persoanlly or SSC, or anyone else here, but I do feel it's important to acknowledge that something's seriously going wrong here. I like what SSC is doing and I want them to continue to do well.

All I ever want is to get what I paid for, nothing more, nothing else...

 

[qualitymm]

the repaint way way much better.

 

[devilof76]

Of course it is.

I seriously don't get you my friend... First of all, are you saying that it's OK or acceptable for Side Show to send someone a messed up figure like that, to an unsuspecting collector? No one's asking them to discard a production run. I don't think anyone here would want or expect THAT.

Not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that the assumption that such problems are pawned off on collectors is exactly that: an assumption. This is a luxury market and in an economy when the market for necessities becomes exponentially weaker by the day, what makes you think a nascent collectibles company such as Sideshow has the resources to endlessly mother factories that consistently produce poor work?

No one is demanding prices. If quality does not meet expectation, you are under zero obligation to purchase. Far less skin off your nose than it is theirs. If they cannot get what they want out of their factories, the fact that you throw money at them is not going to change that.

By the same token, just because you have the money does not obligate them to provide you with that which you desire.

As for Hollywood notions of communist China, you can save the stereotyping of allegedly ignorant American points of view. That dog don't hunt. Who painted those eyes? Who had the responsibility of caring what kind of work they produced? Does it look like they cared? Why not? Which side of the world is America on? Are they still getting paid? Why should they care if repeated errors are not something their employers can simply afford to have done over?

 

[noizyboi]

Of course it is.

Not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that the assumption that such problems are pawned off on collectors is exactly that: an assumption. This is a luxury market and in an economy when the market for necessities becomes exponentially weaker by the day, what makes you think a nascent collectibles company such as Sideshow has the resources to endlessly mother factories that consistently produce poor work?

No one is demanding prices. If quality does not meet expectation, you are under zero obligation to purchase. Far less skin off your nose than it is theirs. If they cannot get what they want out of their factories, the fact that you throw money at them is not going to change that.

By the same token, just because you have the money does not obligate them to provide you with that which you desire.

As for Hollywood notions of communist China, you can save the stereotyping of allegedly ignorant American points of view. That dog don't hunt. Who painted those eyes? Who had the responsibility of caring what kind of work they produced? Does it look like they cared? Why not? Which side of the world is America on? Are they still getting paid? Why should they care if repeated errors are not something their employers can simply afford to have done over?

Ok, first off, the fact is these problems are indeed being experienced by the customers, evidenced by gaff after gaff from pictures posted here and in similar threads. They may have requested for a replacement and gotten them, but that's beside the point, it means more hassle for the collector and for SSC.

I think it's safe to say, that after being in the business of manufacturing collectible figures, and statues for 18 years now, to call Sideshow a Nascent collectibles company is stretching it. They've been in the business long enough to build efficient work-flow pipelines and maintain the quality of their products. True enough the economy is failing, but that doesn't mean it's important. Maybe owning a SSC figure isn't the same as buying the basic necessities, but nevertheless, it is money spent with an expectation of the SSC brand and it is the SSC brand that suffers.

Certainly, no one is obligated to buy their products and I agree with most of what you say there, I alone decide for or against buying a figure or not, the same as you, but are you saying SSC doesn't have control of it's own production lines?

As for Hollywood notions of communist China, you can save the stereotyping of allegedly ignorant American points of view.

No one is calling anyone ignorant. I am not in the business of stereotyping anyone here, I just presented the facts and only elaborated on personal experiences to relate what I knew to be true. Like I said, I don't have an agenda against you, so there's no need for either of us to be uncivil here I merely responded to your observations. I don't mind saying with regret that before I first went on business to Beijing in '05, I did have a stereotypical image of China that was re-enforced by movies and documentaries.

Your last paragraph sums it up better than I ever could. It underlines the point that it's SSC who is responsible for the mistakes. At least we have that in common. There are slackers in every corner of the globe. If you have incompetent people on your production line, you weed them out, you don't let them ruin your brand image. it's just common sense...

 

[noizyboi]

the repaint way way much better.

If someone had shown me the same picture, I would have picked the repaint as an SSC and the other as a cheap KO.

 

[qualitymm]

in the end all the blame lies with the people who outsource the manufacturing part and neglecting the quality.

 

[devilof76]

How about the people who create the political environment wherein it is virtually impossible to operate manufacturing in a domestic locale?

What was it Steve Jobs said to Barack Obama when asked to bring Apple back to the states? Something like, "Never."

Basically, it's SSC's fault because they are in business at all. True enough. If they can't make it work, then they can't make it work.

Ok, first off, the fact is these problems are indeed being experienced by the customers, evidenced by gaff after gaff from pictures posted here and in similar threads. They may have requested for a replacement and gotten them, but that's beside the point, it means more hassle for the collector and for SSC.

I know. Remember? Since 2007.

I think it's safe to say, that after being in the business of manufacturing collectible figures, and statues for 18 years now, to call Sideshow a Nascent collectibles company is stretching it. They've been in the business long enough to build efficient work-flow pipelines and maintain the quality of their products.

18 years in an unstable environment. How long has Waterford been around? Hummel? Swarovski? Franklin Mint?

Even Hasbro and Mattel are radically older than Sideshow.

True enough the economy is failing, but that doesn't mean it's important. Maybe owning a SSC figure isn't the same as buying the basic necessities, but nevertheless, it is money spent with an expectation of the SSC brand and it is the SSC brand that suffers.

How do you propose to support a luxury industry without a stable foundation? You think if food and fuel prices cannot sit still, a high-end toy company can afford to combat recalcitrant labor?

Certainly, no one is obligated to buy their products and I agree with most of what you say there, I alone decide for or against buying a figure or not, the same as you, but are you saying SSC doesn't have control of it's own production lines?

They do to the extent that they do, and no further. Are you suggesting that they simply don't care what quality of merchandise their factories produce? Or that they are perhaps ignorant of what ships back to them from China?

In a great many senses, no I don't believe they are fully in control of their overseas facilities.

No one is calling anyone ignorant. I am not in the business of stereotyping anyone here, I just presented the facts and only elaborated on personal experiences to relate what I knew to be true. Like I said, I don't have an agenda against you, so there's no need for either of us to be uncivil here I merely responded to your observations.

I don't think you have an agenda against me, but I also don't think you're hearing what I'm saying. Just trying to get you to see the practical end of this, without slipping into rationalizations.

Your last paragraph sums it up better than I ever could. It underlines the point that it's SSC who is responsible for the mistakes. At least we have that in common. There are slackers in every corner of the globe. If you have incompetent people on your production line, you weed them out, you don't let them ruin your brand image. it's just common sense...

Indeed it is common sense. Which begs the question of how they could possibly be willing to destroy their entire business over something so simple as firing slackers and hiring less inept replacements. You're assuming an ideal situation. It's like Sideshow is expected to work in a textbook scenario, when the textbooks haven't understood the most basic market functions since long before gravity put the lid on J.M.Keynes.

 

[noizyboi]

How about the people who create the political environment wherein it is virtually impossible to operate manufacturing in a domestic locale?

What was it Steve Jobs said to Barack Obama when asked to bring Apple back to the states? Something like, "Never."

Basically, it's SSC's fault because they are in business at all. True enough. If they can't make it work, then they can't make it work.

No arguments there at all, there are a number of factors that have impeded American companies to operate on their own soil.

18 years in an unstable environment. How long has Waterford been around? Hummel? Swarovski? Franklin Mint?

Even Hasbro and Mattel are radically older than Sideshow.

How do you propose to support a luxury industry without a stable foundation? You think if food and fuel prices cannot sit still, a high-end toy company can afford to combat recalcitrant labor?

Unstable in what way? We've been in a recession since 2007, true enough, prices have risen on even basic goods, our money is worth less than it was before that. All that's true and acknowledged, but at the same time, the prices for these commodities have risen proportionally, in any economic condition, the ones who shoulder the weight is the consumer, the extra costs get passed down by the manufacturer. that's economics 101.

They do to the extent that they do, and no further. Are you suggesting that they simply don't care what quality of merchandise their factories produce? Or that they are perhaps ignorant of what ships back to them from China?

That is exactly what I am saying, they are starting to not care about the standards as much as they should. They are by no means ignorant of the issues, but seem to have adopted a "take it, or leave it" attitude. which is fine if I'm buying a $10 figure from Hasbro, it's mass produced and it's cheap, but quite a different matter altogether if there's only 500 pieces of them ever in existence, they've been advertised on SSC as being "premium format" and the promotional pictures capture them from every possible angle that promises to live to the hype and then, they give you this.

and this...

and this...

*

*


and this...

In a great many senses, no I don't believe they are fully in control of their overseas facilities.

That's what I'm saying as well. And they should be. I don't mind paying even a little more than what they're asking if they can just get it right the first time, that's all I'm saying, instead of opening up my box, seeing this, then having to call and email and then mail back the figure, incurring additional expenses to have it fixed.

is that too much to ask? Get it right the first time around and everyone wins. And these are limited runs, it's not like we're asking them to QC 10,000 pieces, when it's a maximum of 1000 pieces....

I don't think you have an agenda against me, but I also don't think you're hearing what I'm saying. Just trying to get you to see the practical end of this, without slipping into rationalizations.

Indeed it is common sense. Which begs the question of how they could possibly be willing to destroy their entire business over something so simple as firing slackers and hiring less inept replacements. You're assuming an ideal situation. It's like Sideshow is expected to work in a textbook scenario, when the textbooks haven't understood the most basic market functions since long before gravity put the lid on J.M.Keynes.

I'm not saying that you don't have some valid points here, but I also believe that in the long run, it's just not good business to not take more concrete steps to minimize this kind of unfortunate experiences. No one here is living in a bubble, but at the end of the day, SSC's problems shouldn't have to be my problems.

Firing inept and unsatisfactory employee's has always been the norm in any business model, and I've yet to see a company that did who "destroyed" their entire business because they fired the rotten eggs.

There is no shortage of talented artists who would gladly take the places of those who aren't productive, recalcitrant etc.

But holding ON to the chimpanzees with paintbrushes who mess up just might undo SSC in the long term. Like I said, there's always someone out there who's willing to go the extra mile to woo their customers away.

Henry Ford found out about that the hard way, when he lost out to GM, after his success with the Model-T.

Oh, for anyone who'd like to see the original article where I found some of these shining examples, here it is >>> https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114935

 

[noizyboi]

in the end all the blame lies with the people who outsource the manufacturing part and neglecting the quality.

and that would be SSC.

 

[devilof76]

Ok, you successfully bored me to death.

Shame on you Sideshow.