Skyfall (aka Bond 23)

[Platty]

To make him look old?

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

Well, Bond is supposed to be older and towards the end of his career. He can't look too young looking. I keep thinking of the scene where Bond is trying to shoot the target and he's got the white beard starting to come along before he shaves it when he's placed on active duty.

 

[Wor-Gar]

...all sorts of factors make it impossible to place them alongside Skyfall and say 'this is portraying the exact same reality as the other'.

And the Craig Bonds will seem equally improbable in the future days to come...

 

[CelticPredator]

Well, Bond is supposed to be older and towards the end of his career. He can't look too young looking. I keep thinking of the scene where Bond is trying to shoot the target and he's got the white beard starting to come along before he shaves it when he's placed on active duty.

No. He's not at the end of his career. But he's not at the beginning.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

No. He's not at the end of his career. But he's not at the beginning.

Not at the end, but he's certainly past his prime. That's what I took from all the "stay retired", "lost a step", and he couldn't even pass the basic qualifying tests once he came back.

 

[CelticPredator]

Past his prime is it. Yes. Which is what I enjoyed about it. It's almost like asking "Is Bond too old of a series? Is it even worth continuing?"

Damn right it is.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

I know it's an action movie, but I'm still a bit unclear about a couple things. First off, Bond really got shot by Moneypenny right? They didn't fake that, which is later confirmed with their dialogue at M16. It's weird that they made such a big deal of the first gun shot in Bond's shoulder impairing him so much when he's trying to get back in shape and yet barely even mention the one that "killed" him.

Second, I thought it was silly that when Bond and the French guy were fighting on top of the train and she's got them in her sights that entire time, she doesn't tell Bond to get down. She was able to communicate with him before (and he clearly heard M's orders). Why didn't Moneypenny tell Bond to get down and fire off? He definitely could have.

And what purprose did Bond have to attempt to run across the frozen pond at the end while trying to get to M in the chapel? He clearly could have gone left or right like 20 feet and been running full speed on solid ground, yet he went straight which really gave him no advantage in saving time and, ultimately, set him back and put him in, "deep water", as he put it.

 

[CelticPredator]

This is treading some "Honest Trailers" territory right now....but ok.

-Bond got shot by Moneypenny, who was ordered to do so by M. Which is why it's a big deal. Bond felt betrayed. The bullet missed every vital organ.

-The shoulder bullet was that bullet. It was the bullet Silva touched. But there was one that was near his shoulder that housed the bullet fragments.

-That's the point. M didn't want to wait. She ordered her to shoot him.

-He was almost there. Come on. Fastest way between two distances is a straight line, at least most of the time.

 

[mfoga]

As for the lake who knows how wide it really is. Bond would though as he grew up there.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

This is treading some "Honest Trailers" territory right now....but ok.

-Bond got shot by Moneypenny, who was ordered to do so by M. Which is why it's a big deal. Bond felt betrayed. The bullet missed every vital organ.

-The shoulder bullet was that bullet. It was the bullet Silva touched. But there was one that was near his shoulder that housed the bullet fragments.

-That's the point. M didn't want to wait. She ordered her to shoot him.

-He was almost there. Come on. Fastest way between two distances is a straight line, at least most of the time.

I don't know what Honest Trailers is, so....

I got why he was shot, it's just surprising that he survived all of that AND M seemed to know he was alive in retirement. And why he felt betrayed. So he got shot in (almost) the same place by both the French dude and Moneypenny? I thought it was the other side for some reason. So the fragments were from the French guy's gun, since that's how they connected it to him. I was wondering why everyone was only focusing on his right shoulder. I thought the scar Silva touched was the same one that Bond sliced open....so you're saying it isn't?

And no, the ice part was just a dumb move imo

As for the lake who knows how wide it really is. Bond would though as he grew up there.

You can clearly see the the ground on both sides of the lake when he first steps on it. And when Silva was standing there, on land, with his gun pointed at Bond, it wasn't far at all..and Silva was basically a straight distance to the chapel after he turned away from Bond to fell through the ice.

For as much time as Bond had to take to stop running and see how thin the ice was before finally stepping on it, he easily could have been sprinting full speed safely on dirt and grass. For someone who is as aware as 007, I found it a bit dimwitted when just about anybody else would go to the left or the right and get there at the same time, if not faster.

 

[CelticPredator]

He should've went around the ice to make the movie longer, and less exciting. Hell, he should've just used the gun to shoot Silva. Pfft. Why even have an emotional climax.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

He should've went around the ice to make the movie longer, and less exciting. Hell, he should've just used the gun to shoot Silva. Pfft. Why even have an emotional climax.

Well, if you want to go there, the quick, blindside thrown knife to the back was like the least personal way he could have killed Silva. What emotional climax was that? It just allowed Silva to taunt an M who was already dying anyway.

Besides, it isn't like films can't be logical and have emotional climaxes.

Especially smart espionage films.

 

[CelticPredator]

Someone missed the point.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

Enlighten me. Because I sure as hell wouldn't have minded Bond going around the lake and quickly killing some henchman in the brush and making the movie a whopping 30 seconds longer. Atleast it would make more sense instead of obviously sticking out like a sore thumb running on dangerously thin ice and then getting held at gunpoint. But why should a super smart and savvy double 00 agent be smarter than that

 

[CelticPredator]

It wasn't that thin. He stepped on it to test it out. It cracked. But didn't break. He had no time.

Lets say he ran around. Doo dee doo. Here comes Bond, running around the corner. BAM. Silva catches up to him. What happens? Does he shoot Silva? Ok. Silva's dead. He runs to M. She dies.

But we're missing that final important moment between Silva and M.


You seem to want to eliminate suspense for "logic". Sorry. But I get a lot more out suspense then I do someone doing something "logical".

I just don't get that way of thinking.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

It wasn't that thin. He stepped on it to test it out. It cracked. But didn't break. He had no time.

Lets say he ran around. Doo dee doo. Here comes Bond, running around the corner. BAM. Silva catches up to him. What happens? Does he shoot Silva? Ok. Silva's dead. He runs to M. She dies.

But we're missing that final important moment between Silva and M.


You seem to want to eliminate suspense for "logic". Sorry. But I get a lot more out suspense then I do someone doing something "logical".

I just don't get that way of thinking.

And I don't get the way of thinking that suggests you can't have both "logic" and "suspense" in a film featuring the spy of all spies. Why settle? You're implying it has to be one or the other? You couldn't have Bond fight with a henchman only to notice he's being lined up at gunpoint by Silva and Bond reacts quickly by using the henchman's body to break the ice and dive into the water with the body? That's logical, suspenseful AND you can get the same ending with M. Point is, it didn't make spy-sense to risk running on ice when the ground is running parallel to you on both sides.

 

[CelticPredator]

Have you ever stepped on ice before? It's not death incarnate. You can walk along an entire lake of ice without any issue. You just have to make sure it's thick enough. Which Bond did.

So. Yeah.

Also, if he did what you said, Bond would've thrown a dude on some ice, and Silva would've shot him, because a person falling on the ice would've done nothing.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

Have you ever stepped on ice before? It's not death incarnate. You can walk along an entire lake of ice without any issue. You just have to make sure it's thick enough. Which Bond did.

So. Yeah.

Also, if he did what you said, Bond would've thrown a dude on some ice, and Silva would've shot him, because a person falling on the ice would've done nothing.

But guess what, when you stay on land you don't even have to stop and put weight on it to see if it cracks or breaks. That's the beauty of it. Silva looked just as lined up with the chapel as Bond did.

And the ice didn't look so solid that what I recommended couldn't be written in. Not to mention he could have shot at the ice first like he ended up doing later on anyway. And it took me only 4 seconds to think of that.

But that's irrelevant anyway, because your idea that a climax either has to be logical or suspenseful, when it should really be both, suggests to me you felt like they could have done it better despite you wanting to admit it or not.

 

[CelticPredator]

You're putting words in my keyboard. I also just saw the scene, so I can come back and comment.

Silva got a HUGE headstart on Bond. Bond had NO time. Did you see where Silva was? Did you see how close he was to the church? Did you see where Bond was? Come on dude.

Yes. Films sometime sacrifice total logic for suspense. You don't go see any movie to watch people do perfectly logical things. You watch them to evoke an emotional reaction out of you. I'm not saying I THINK the scene is illogical. I'm saying your wrong for suggesting it should've been MORE logical.

 

[GodzillaSpawn]

You're putting words in my keyboard. I also just saw the scene, so I can come back and comment.

Silva got a HUGE headstart on Bond. Bond had NO time. Did you see where Silva was? Did you see how close he was to the church? Did you see where Bond was? Come on dude.

Yes. Films sometime sacrifice total logic for suspense. You don't go see any movie to watch people do perfectly logical things. You watch them to evoke an emotional reaction out of you. I'm not saying I THINK the scene is illogical. I'm saying your wrong for suggesting it should've been MORE logical.

I'm saying I'm not, because it could have been more logical. Easily.

And yes I saw the head start. I got all that. Bond was flying when he was running on land and dropping flying knees on people. He didn't even look like he was going that fast on the ice so if that's what they were going for than hey they tried.

But personally I think the Bond/Silva ending could have been better. I would have loved to see Bond charge into the chapel when Silva was about to place the gun to he and M's head (everything between M and Silva up to that would have been exactly the same), only for Silva to quickly turn around and use M as a human shield, crouching down behind M leaving Bond a very small window daring Bond to fire and prove his accuracy once again. M would stare Bond in the eye and nod commandingly. This time Bond pull up the pistol quickly and fires an accurate laser into that small window and catching Silva in the head. It would have been a cool contrast to the opening "take the bloody shot" scene and settled the "test of accuracy" bit that Silva challenged him to earlier in the film.

That would have been way more badass imo. Of course, Bond would have had to taken a gun from one of Silva's henchmen or something but that's easy to write in. The throwing knife I guess was a nice "oldschool" feel, but I was hoping at some point Bond would sort of "out-agent" Silva one-on-one.