Solo: A Star Wars Story

[SNIKT1950]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Gilroy never truly replaced Gareth Edwards since Edwards took part in the reshoots themselves even after Gilroy was brought in to assist.

Yep, directors love it when studios hire other people to "assist" them in reshooting their completed features.

 

[Khev]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Yep, normally it's called Second Unit but it isn't unheard of or inherently shameful to have a pinch hitting First Unit director, *especially* on a studio tentpole.

 

[Rorywan]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Looks like this could get messy.

The DGA states there can only be one director listed on the film (or two if it's an established duo like Lord/Miller or the Russos.) If Lord and Miller fight to keep their name on the film due to the amount of work they've already done then they get to keep all benefits and royalties. LFL also wouldn't really be able to push someone else's face very credibly during PR, blu-ray special features, etc., because it'd be weird for everyone to see Ron Howard all over the place for instance if his name isn't even on the movie. Also per DGA rules directors can NOT be replaced with anyone already involved in the production (so no Kasdan taking over.)

It sounds like the ball might be in Lord and Miller's court to have final say on whether they retain sole director credit of their existing footage and they might even have the option to force an Alan Smithee credit despite whoever Kennedy gets to replace them.

Lucasfilm might be forced to scrap most or all of the already completed footage and reshoot from scratch to avoid such a mess. I know that Lester had to redo a lot of Donner's Superman II's scenes to assemble enough footage to allow his name to replace Donner's.

Obviously they could keep the existing footage, pull another Gilroy* and bring in someone who receives no credit whatsoever and leave Lord and Miller as the permanent faces and voice of the movie. But it seems like they've already waived that option by publicly announcing their "creative differences."

*obviously Gilroy never truly replaced Gareth Edwards since Edwards took part in the reshoots themselves even after Gilroy was brought in to assist.

Yes, and also any DGA member in extremely good standing like Ron Howard would avoid going near a contentious union issue. And he is a very active DGA member.
This is why when they fired Edwards* and got Gilroy to step in they agreed to keep it under the table. Edwards had a **** to lose in that situation and I'm sure his management told him to play nice.

These two (Miller/Lord) don't bow down as easily, they don't need to, which is why it seems they were fired.

*he was, just not formally for the reasons you mentioned above.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Yes, and also any DGA member in extremely good standing like Ron Howard would avoid going near a contentious union issue. And he is a very active DGA member.
This is why when they fired Edwards* and got Gilroy to step in they agreed to keep it under the table. Edwards had a **** to lose in that situation and I'm sure his management told him to play nice.

These two (Miller/Lord) don't bow down as easily, they don't need to, which is why it seems they were fired.

*he was, just not formally for the reasons you mentioned above.

#Truth

 

[spindrift]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Give it to Snyder.

Best idea you have had in a long time!

 

[spindrift]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

I think it will be reshot and release date moved back to next Dec...or was it there already?

 

[Khev]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

This is why when they fired Edwards*

*he was, just not formally for the reasons you mentioned above.

By definition you're not fired if you're still maintaining your current position for your employer. Edwards directing the last minute Vader sequence completely debunks the claim that he got canned. Was another director brought in to direct additional scenes that either needed to be added from scratch or redone from earlier takes? Sure, but 1. That's not unheard of and 2. Edwards was still directing his own additional scenes from scratch parallel to Gilroy's contributions. Was Edwards shut out of the editing room (which is literally the only time frame he could have been "fired.") Perhaps, but he was never going to get final cut anyway.

So you can say that the studio grew worrisome in Edwards' ability to deliver the final package on time all by himself and you can say that the studio took over the editing but both scenarios happen all...the...time. The "Auteur Theory" is a joke when it comes to these massive productions (except for The Phantom Menace and we saw how well that worked out.) Everyone needs help.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

The "Auteur Theory" is a joke when it comes to these massive productions. Everyone needs help.

Not true. Just ask:

-James Cameron
-Steven Spielberg
-Ridley Scott
-Robert Zemeckis
-Christopher Nolan
-Tim Burton
-Brad Bird
-John McTiernan
-Bryan Singer
-Matt Reeves
-JJ Abrams

^if I kept going with the list above I'd have to mention every film director who ever completed a studio film he or she agreed to direct.

Directors direct. If the studio doesn't like the final product they don't "help" them. They fire them.

 

[Khev]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

I'm glad you brought up those guys. You think that Cameron would be anybody if he didn't have Winston? Or Spielberg without Williams? Zemeckis without Spielberg? Yes directors direct. But not the entire movie. Ever. Hence the perpetual existence of Second Unit and Assistant Directors. Joss Whedon said when all was said and done he directed maybe 30% of what you see on screen in the Avengers films. Was he fired??? No, he made a studio tentpole and played the game accordingly.

So at the end of the day Gareth Edwards directed the majority of Rogue One (even the actual choreography of the space battle!) and stayed on LFL's payroll to the very end. And now we have a finished film with his name on it and no reason to award a higher credit to anyone else. The remaining minutiae is just the normal big studio song and dance drama that goes with the territory of these types of productions.

 

[spindrift]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

I'm glad you brought up those guys. You think that Cameron would be anybody if he didn't have Winston? Or Spielberg without Williams? Zemeckis without Spielberg? Yes directors direct. But not the entire movie. Ever. Hence the perpetual existence of Second Unit and Assistant Directors. Joss Whedon said when all was said and done he directed maybe 30% of what you see on screen in the Avengers films. Was he fired??? No, made a studio tentpole and played the game accordingly.

Yeah with these big superhero films they have like three units working at the same time- and all the effects shots are "pre-directed" anyhow

 

[SNIKT1950]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

I'm glad you brought up those guys. You think that Cameron would be anybody if he didn't have Winston? Or Spielberg without Williams? Zemeckis without Spielberg? Yes directors direct. But not the entire movie. Ever. Hence the perpetual existence of Second Unit and Assistant Directors. Joss Whedon said when all was said and done he directed maybe 30% of what you see on screen in the Avengers films. Was he fired??? No, he made a studio tentpole and played the game accordingly.

So at the end of the day Gareth Edwards directed the majority of Rogue One (even the actual choreography of the space battle!) and stayed on LFL's payroll to the very end. And now we have a finished film with his name on it and no reason to award a higher credit to anyone else. The remaining minutiae is just the normal big studio song and dance drama that goes with the territory of these types of productions.

Gilroy didn't direct second unit. He wasn't an Assistant Director. Look, I get that you like this studio but I feel like you're having a tough time championing this false narrative that Edwards was ecstatic when the suits vetoed his cut and brought in someone else to "fix" his movie.

Cameron, Zemeckis, Spielberg, Donner...they would have gone The Alan Smithee route to spite the studio. Edwards just played ball.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

I'm glad you brought up those guys. You think that Cameron would be anybody if he didn't have Winston? Or Spielberg without Williams? Zemeckis without Spielberg? Yes directors direct. But not the entire movie. Ever. Hence the perpetual existence of Second Unit and Assistant Directors. Joss Whedon said when all was said and done he directed maybe 30% of what you see on screen in the Avengers films. Was he fired??? No, he made a studio tentpole and played the game accordingly.

So at the end of the day Gareth Edwards directed the majority of Rogue One (even the actual choreography of the space battle!) and stayed on LFL's payroll to the very end. And now we have a finished film with his name on it and no reason to award a higher credit to anyone else. The remaining minutiae is just the normal big studio song and dance drama that goes with the territory of these types of productions.

Smart to leave out Nolan. He needs no help.

 

[Khev]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Gilroy didn't direct second unit. He wasn't an Assistant Director. Look, I get that you like this studio but I feel like you're having a tough time championing this false narrative that Edwards was ecstatic when the suits vetoed his cut and brought in someone else to "fix" his movie.

Cameron, Zemeckis, Spielberg, Donner...they would have gone The Alan Smithee route to spite the studio. Edwards just played ball.

See taking things out of context doesn't strengthen your position. My point with 2nd Unit and AD's is that there has never, ever, been a single directorial vision for a large motion picture. There's the main guy and the "helper" directors. The existence of helpers doesn't invalidate the work of the credited director nor does it indicate that he was unceremoniously let go.

And please try and pull up a post where I said that Edwards was ecstatic that Gilroy was brought aboard. I'm sure he was partly bummed that it happened and partly relieved at the same time. But my impression of him isn't that he's so vain that he was crushed or would ever need to lie about his limitations. I'm sure he hit a wall. And it might have been a wall that other A-list directors wouldn't have hit. But so what. They didn't work on Rogue One. He did, and the finished film speaks for itself.

We don't know exactly what Gilroy shot but we do know that Edwards did all of Yavin, all of Jedha, all of Eadu, all of the space battle and the Vader sequence. Those are some pretty honking big RO directorial credentials right there. We know that Gilroy did some work on the Scarif beaches (but not all as there are plenty of BTS shots of Edwards directing on the beaches) and possibly the opening intros for Jyn, Cassian, and Bodhi. And to that I say so? Just some fine tuning to help tie everything together. It's still Edwards' film first and foremost.

 

[Khev]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Smart to leave out Nolan. He needs no help.

Apparently he needed Ledger.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Apparently he needed Ledger.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

 

[Khev]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

That's one of the best gif responses i've seen in quite awhile.

 

[Khev]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Indeed, lol.

 

[crows]

Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

This thread just got dangerous