Solo: A Star Wars Story

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Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Not true. At all. Barry Jenkins, Damien Chazelle, Paul Thomas Anderson, David O. Russell, David Robert Mitchell, Nicolas Winding Refn...the list goes on. A great filmmaker doesn't have to "pay tribute" to the corporate machine to earn his service stripes. There's independent financing, out of pocket, film school lotteries....a great auteur can rise to the top with film #1 on a shoestring budget.

Have any of those guys directed a tentpole film yet? I think the answer is no.

There's a reason Kathleen Kennedy and Kevin Feige aren't directing these movies.

No, they just have full creative control.
 
Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Not completely on topic but I thought the Donner cut of Supes 2 was inferior to the official version.

I think - if memory serves - I preferred bits from one and bits from the other - as such neither cut being ultimate to me.
 
Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Its cool that WB released Donner's cut of Superman II just in time for Singer's unofficial "Superman III".

Disney will never release Edwards' original cut of RO & I think its safe to say the same goes for Lord & Miller's HS.
 
Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

In the corporate world that's definitely the case. In the arts however, the rules are different. As a filmmaker you don't make movies to appease suits. This is a clear cut scenario of suits running over the artistic vision of some union Directors. Because today's America has become brainwashed with fake news and sterilized information, the notion of Lord and Miller publicly bashing Disney seems insane. It really isn't, everyone's just forgotten what it's like to get real honesty from public figures these days. Honesty in the arts is power. Orson Welles is a legend today because of that.

We're basically living in the movie The Running Man and Disney is ICS.

Are you a filmmaker? Do you work in the industry? Are you a behind the camera crew?

Cause you sure don't know anything about how the industry works and is instead hawking your version of how it should work non stop.

You said your friend got to watch an early cut of RO yet you refused to say who he is or what capacity is he involved in with RO.

Unless your friend is high up the food chain, he won't get to watch the first cut.

I am a cinematographer that has shot award winning productions over here and I never get to watch the first cut of anything I have ever shot. Despite shooting it, once I am done with principal photography my involvement is mostly done except I might be called in for some colour grading consultation by the editor and even then that is rare.

Rarely do any crew stays around after production. Everyone would have moved on to different jobs.

So unless your friend is actually the editor, producer, or Gareth Edwards himself, I would take his word on actually watching an early cut of RO with a grain of salt.

Also, the auteur theory is a myth when it comes to tentpole movies. You want creative independence go make your own indie movie.

But when you are in a big budget production you are hired to make the movie the producer wants you to make. This has always been the case.

The director is at the end of the day a hired gun of the producer and the studio. Hired to realized their vision not yours.

Is the same when the director hire me to shoot their stuff. I don't force my style on them. Instead I will try my best to give them what they want. You will be out of a job really quick if you constantly try to go against the vision of the director and the director against the vision of the producer.

While filmmaking is a collaborative process there is a clear hierarchy when it comes to decision making. One thing I always say to young people just joining the industry is that don't make the mistake of thinking that you can have creative input in everything. Filmmaking is not a democracy.

Your whistle blowing fantasy will just stay a fantasy. You make it sound like this is some smoking gun or something.

Everyone knows this is how it works. It is nothing new. You want to stay in the game you got to play the game and all the best directors have played it.

And really, you think Whedon actually directed the action scenes in the Avengers movies? That is the job of the action director.

It is extremely rare for the director to actually direct the action scene in any movies except maybe for Michael Bay (and that is why his action sucks) or the filmmakers who did John Wick movies and even then they actually started out as action directors and made the transition to directing.

I have worked with Hong Kong choreographers for a few TV series and each time it comes to any scenes involving action or stunts, the reign is handed over to the choreographer.

There is no ego or any hurt feelings. It is one professional handling the reigns to another professional that can do a better job in that department.

And really, you think directors always get the final cut? That era is long gone.
 
Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Hollywood's short Auteur era ended in the late 70's when the director's egos overtook their talent and saw the release of expensive, indulgent flops. It's end was also brought about coincidentally by the mega success of Star Wars and Jaws two years earlier. The studios then reigned back the control they had given away when they had no idea how to make films for the changing audience tastes of the 1960's and were still running themselves like it was the 1930's. The role of the film producer has since gon back to reflecting that of producers in television by having more and more control of the final product.
 
Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Hollywood's short Auteur era ended in the late 70's when the director's egos overtook their talent and saw the release of expensive, indulgent flops. It's end was also brought about coincidentally by the mega success of Star Wars and Jaws two years earlier. The studios then reigned back the control they had given away when they had no idea how to make films for the changing audience tastes of the 1960's and were still running themselves like it was the 1930's. The role of the film producer has since gon back to reflecting that of producers in television by having more and more control of the final product.

Heaven's Gate will be a prime example of that.
 
Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Whats the mystery here?

The directer did not deliver a film the studio liked.....so they hired someone else to fix it.

Disney knows what they are doing....they make great films. The have done a very good job with the two Star Wars films they made already. Regardless how you feel about TFA (which I like alot...hell of alot more than the prequels) , most sane people cannot deny RO was a good film.....AFTER reshoots.....

The studio has criteria for their films and if the director screws it up they hire someone to fix it.

It not a big secret that Disney will never allow a director to go full left or right on a film they make... They want a film that will please audiences.....not be a major artistic statement (thank god)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Exactly. They just stopped paying him and moved him into the broom closet. All very standard.



:lol that's it exactly. Although no one outside the golden circle knows definitively what went down, and probably never will. This was not a 'normal' precedented situation in Hollywood, nor is this new one with the Solo movie. Many have reported that Edwards was not even present in the offline at the end while Gilroy was editing the movie.

A studio seeing a rough cut and telling you they are not happy with your vision, then getting another director involved to direct.. yes direct (not 1st unit, not second unit.. but actually direct new material with the main cast) is not a collaboration as Khev has suggested. It's a soft PR replacement. Yes, you can still take part in the process, please do it will help us with an awkward situation, but you are no longer in control. Effectively you are standing down as director.
Doesn't matter what you call it, still is the same thing. Firing, replacement, standing down.. whatever but not a collaboration if your job description changes from what you were hired to do.

Quite the opposite, and if Edwards had not towed the line and taken it up the kazooie then they would have had exactly the same DGA issues that Solo is going to have now.
 
Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Are you a filmmaker? Do you work in the industry? Are you a behind the camera crew?

Cause you sure don't know anything about how the industry works and is instead hawking your version of how it should work non stop.

You said your friend got to watch an early cut of RO yet you refused to say who he is or what capacity is he involved in with RO.

Unless your friend is high up the food chain, he won't get to watch the first cut.

I am a cinematographer that has shot award winning productions over here and I never get to watch the first cut of anything I have ever shot. Despite shooting it, once I am done with principal photography my involvement is mostly done except I might be called in for some colour grading consultation by the editor and even then that is rare.

Rarely do any crew stays around after production. Everyone would have moved on to different jobs.

So unless your friend is actually the editor, producer, or Gareth Edwards himself, I would take his word on actually watching an early cut of RO with a grain of salt.

Also, the auteur theory is a myth when it comes to tentpole movies. You want creative independence go make your own indie movie.

But when you are in a big budget production you are hired to make the movie the producer wants you to make. This has always been the case.

The director is at the end of the day a hired gun of the producer and the studio. Hired to realized their vision not yours.

Is the same when the director hire me to shoot their stuff. I don't force my style on them. Instead I will try my best to give them what they want. You will be out of a job really quick if you constantly try to go against the vision of the director and the director against the vision of the producer.

While filmmaking is a collaborative process there is a clear hierarchy when it comes to decision making. One thing I always say to young people just joining the industry is that don't make the mistake of thinking that you can have creative input in everything. Filmmaking is not a democracy.

Your whistle blowing fantasy will just stay a fantasy. You make it sound like this is some smoking gun or something.

Everyone knows this is how it works. It is nothing new. You want to stay in the game you got to play the game and all the best directors have played it.

And really, you think Whedon actually directed the action scenes in the Avengers movies? That is the job of the action director.

It is extremely rare for the director to actually direct the action scene in any movies except maybe for Michael Bay (and that is why his action sucks) or the filmmakers who did John Wick movies and even then they actually started out as action directors and made the transition to directing.

I have worked with Hong Kong choreographers for a few TV series and each time it comes to any scenes involving action or stunts, the reign is handed over to the choreographer.

There is no ego or any hurt feelings. It is one professional handling the reigns to another professional that can do a better job in that department.

And really, you think directors always get the final cut? That era is long gone.

This.. all of it, it's true. Unfortunately. And I am a DGA member, no one gets into an edit except the core inner circle. I never even share rough cuts with my DP until it's been approved already or I want his opinion on colour timing or technical stuff.

But! What is happening on these SW movies is also not run of the mill. The closest precedent I can think of is what happened on The Golden Compass with Chris Weitz. He was literally removed from the edit suite by New Line and they edited the movie into a completely new (and disappointing beast) they actually cut the entire ending off (30 minutes!) with mostly finished VFX to 'keep' for a sequel. Then just like Edwards, Weitz had to go and do a promotional tour for the movie and tell everyone how happy he was with it, how wonderful a process it was...
 
Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Seems to me like no one knows or cares who Edwards is.

I don't. :dunno
 
Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Well time will tell.

If a studio hires Edwards for another tent pole movie, especially if it's Disney again, then we know he came out a winner from the RO drama.

If he disappears then Rory and Evil will have been right lol.
 
Re: Han Solo: A Star Wars Story (May 25th, 2018)

Although no one outside the golden circle knows definitively what went down, and probably never will.

Then why do you speak definitively as if you do?

Many have reported that Edwards was not even present in the offline at the end while Gilroy was editing the movie.

While others report that he was:

In fact, sources have stated that Gilroy and Rogue One: A Star Wars Story's director Gareth Edwards are working on a cut of the film that both parties can agree on as the final product, from their shared editing room.

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/15...one-involvement-may-be-bigger-than-we-thought

sources speaking to THR confirmed that Gilroy is “supervising” the final cut of Rogue One with Edwards’ “input.” Though the same insider sources have said that it’s still Edwards’ movie and that the editors, Gilroy, and Edwards are all working in one editing bay

https://collider.com/rogue-one-star-wars-tony-gilroy-edits/

Sounds like he was in the editing room the whole time. "But if he wasn't in charge of the final edit that means he was FIRED!" No, it means he didn't have final cut and that Gilroy was simply the personification of the studio getting the finished film they wanted which was literally no different that Lucas cutting ESB the way he wanted after Irvin Kershner did his job and offered his "input."

A studio seeing a rough cut and telling you they are not happy with your vision, then getting another director involved to direct.. yes direct (not 1st unit, not second unit.. but actually direct new material with the main cast) is not a collaboration as Khev has suggested.

col·lab·o·rate
kəˈlabəˌrāt
verb
work jointly on an activity, especially to produce or create something.

Once again *by definition* the fact that Edwards was directing Vader in the 11th hour proves he was there to the end and collaborating with anything Gilroy might have been working on at the same time. If someone is demoted from a SW picture or fired in disgrace they don't get to direct DARTH VADER and PRINCESS LEIA as severance pay. :lol Keeping Gareth onboard to personally oversee two of LFL's biggest crown jewels irrefutably proves that LFL still trusted him to deliver the goods and simply helped him out when they added his previously established collaborative partner Tony Gilroy.

If a studio hires Edwards for another tent pole movie, especially if it's Disney again, then we know he came out a winner from the RO drama.

If he disappears then Rory and Evil will have been right lol.

Well he already has another cameo in The Last Jedi which he jokingly considers "the grandson of the Rebel who pulled the lever in RO" so his standing with LFL appears to remain as amicable as ever.
 
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