SPECTRE - Bond 24

[CallMeTheDoctor]

I really like the nod of Hildebrand. Wonder if that could be the next one?

 

[JAWS]

That'd be interesting, except...

Spoiler

The new girl isn't Tracy, and they've been pretty specific about sticking to canon in the Craig films...

I gotta believe that is where it's going... The ending sets it up that way with the look Blofeld shoots bond and her as they embrace.


If not then I hate the ending...

Spoiler

Bond does not retire after 5 years on the job... He tries when he marries but the love of his life is killed by Blofeld. If this is how it ends then I would say that it goes pretty off base as far as canon goes.

 

[Mighty_Jabba]

Last thing this series needs is remakes/updates of the older films. JJ Abrams already tried that with Star Trek Into Darkness and it was horrible.

 

[CallMeTheDoctor]

QoS kind of tried it, but didn't go too well; but I'd think it'd be cool if Bond was hunted by the government. Jason Bourne I suppose, but it could add plenty of stuff to it. Though I'll admit it'll completely stray away from what is Bond.


Or maybe 007 goes to New York. I think we could use a film with a lot more Leiter.

 

[slackerboy]

Last thing this series needs is remakes/updates of the older films. JJ Abrams already tried that with Star Trek Into Darkness and it was horrible.

I wish I could give you a rep bump for this one. I will never understand all the love for that movie. I hate it with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns.

 

[ActionJackson83]

The film was good but to me Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation this year was a much better film overall and definitely a lot more entertaining. If this is Daniel Craig's last film it's a good way to end it.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Unfortunately, Rogue Nation was better than Spectre.

 

[Johnny1378]

Just got back from seeing this, tonight. Overall, I really enjoyed the movie, although I wouldn't rate it better than "Casino Royale" or "Skyfall." I probably would rank it above "Quantum of Solace" though. I wish Christoph Waltz had gotten more screen time. Same with Dave Bautista. It seemed like an over-abundance of time was spent at MI6, establishing what a jerk the C character was. I did appreciate the callbacks to the previous Daniel Craig movies. Some people have made the point that it relied too heavily on them, and I can appreciate that side of it. On the other hand, I appreciated there being some continuity between films. That is something that many of the Bond films don't bother with, "(Quantum of Solace" being a notable exception). Also, it's already been said, but I definitely agree, that the action in the movie is top notch. The opening scene and the fight with Bautista's character, Hinx both standing out as exceptional. In general, I have really enjoyed the Daniel Craig Bond movies. "Casino Royale" is my favorite Bond movie of the entire franchise. "Spectre" doesn't match "Casino Royale" in my opinion, but it was another satisfying entry in the series.

 

[Tyderium]

This gets released in Australia on Thursday. I've been really looking forward to it ever since Skyfall. Though, I have to say, my expectations have been tempered a bit with the 50/50 split in reviews so far. I've really enjoyed Craig's tenure, prior to that I was always just a casual Bond fan. As good as CR is, I prefer SF... I just loved the look of that film, some stunning visuals and the tone, atmosphere and theme song resonated with me. Looking forward to catching Spectre on Fri, if it comes close to SF, I'll be happy.

 

[JAWS]

Last thing this series needs is remakes/updates of the older films. JJ Abrams already tried that with Star Trek Into Darkness and it was horrible.

Does not have to be a "remake / Update" Even thought the Craig films kind of are to begin with. Taking one important even does not make it a remake... One thing that always sucked about the original Bond series is it never properly handled the ending of OHMSS



Having said that... I would not want a "Into Darkness" type film either. But that film just did everything wrong.

 

[Mighty_Jabba]

Does not have to be a "remake / Update" Even thought the Craig films kind of are to begin with. Taking one important even does not make it a remake... One thing that always sucked about the original Bond series is it never properly handled the ending of OHMSS



Having said that... I would not want a "Into Darkness" type film either. But that film just did everything wrong.

OHMSS has over the years grown to a classic status and deservedly so. Taking any elements from it would come across as crass and cheap. The reason the ending in OHMSS is so impactful is beacuse Tracy is not just another Bond squeeze but a well developed charachter, that we as the audience come to care about through the course of the movie. Madeline Swann on the other hand was so poorly written and the whole love story part of the film so underdeveloped that both the torture scene and finale ring false. Using the OHMSS ending with this character would then be no different than Kirk's death from Into Darkness - a nod to the fans without any meaning and none of the emotional weight. All it would do is lead to another Bond revenge story that was already done in QoS.

 

[JAWS]

OHMSS has over the years grown to a classic status and deservedly so. Taking any elements from it would come across as crass and cheap. The reason the ending in OHMSS is so impactful is beacuse Tracy is not just another Bond squeeze but a well developed charachter, that we as the audience come to care about through the course of the movie. Madeline Swann on the other hand was so poorly written and the whole love story part of the film so underdeveloped that both the torture scene and finale ring false. Using the OHMSS ending with this character would then be no different than Kirk's death from Into Darkness - a nod to the fans without any meaning and none of the emotional weight. All it would do is lead to another Bond revenge story that was already done in QoS.

OHMSS is a classic but Tracy's death has nothing to do with these films since they are a true "restart" and not an alternate time line like
Trek.

Your point about OHMSS being cheapened should have already happened for you in CR since Bond falls in Love, and is willing to retire, and then she is killed. As far as QOS goes... QoS is a bad revenge film... I don't remember it well but I don't recall any real revenge being taken in the film.

The one reason Swann's death might not work is the fact that CR already had that happen. IMO it would cheapen that more then it would OHMSS since those events never happened.


I don't agree with your Comparison with Star Trek. That film was dumb in many different ways.. The worst being Kirk's death in place of Spock. Spock's stupid reaction and Spock becoming an action star. It also takes place in the same Universe, meaning it;s supposed to be all the same characters but in a different time warp. Thus the death of Spock is cheapened.

If the Craig films were not an actual reboot and if the new film kills Bond and Madeline Swann becomes the action star then I might agree with you but Tracy does not exist in this Bond world. Tracy's death was the reason Bond never retires again or settles down. You may not like the new character but she causes Bond to retire (thus should cheapen Tracy's character again for you right there). Having her be killed would not effect OHMSS at all IMO since in the Craig world those events never happened.

Again this Bond is a reboot so if you are happy with him riding off in the sunset with his new squeeze (ala Dark Knight Rises) and Blofeld being in jail then that is OK. Personally I don't like it and would have no problem with another Bond vs Blofeld film.

I would be fine with OHMSS type of ending happening at the beginning so we can see Bond get back into HMSS and go after Blofeld. The original series never delivered that. Not in a good way. Tracy's murder was never even mention in DAF.

 

[slackerboy]

OHMSS is a classic but Tracy's death has nothing to do with these films since they are a true "restart" and not an alternate time line like
Trek.

Your point about OHMSS being cheapened should have already happened for you in CR since Bond falls in Love, and is willing to retire, and then she is killed. As far as QOS goes... QoS is a bad revenge film... I don't remember it well but I don't recall any real revenge being taken in the film.

The one reason Swann's death might not work is the fact that CR already had that happen. IMO it would cheapen that more then it would OHMSS since those events never happened.


I don't agree with your Comparison with Star Trek. That film was dumb in many different ways.. The worst being Kirk's death in place of Spock. Spock's stupid reaction and Spock becoming an action star. It also takes place in the same Universe, meaning it;s supposed to be all the same characters but in a different time warp. Thus the death of Spock is cheapened.

If the Craig films were not an actual reboot and if the new film kills Bond and Madeline Swann becomes the action star then I might agree with you but Tracy does not exist in this Bond world. Tracy's death was the reason Bond never retires again or settles down. You may not like the new character but she causes Bond to retire (thus should cheapen Tracy's character again for you right there). Having her be killed would not effect OHMSS at all IMO since in the Craig world those events never happened.

Again this Bond is a reboot so if you are happy with him riding off in the sunset with his new squeeze (ala Dark Knight Rises) and Blofeld being in jail then that is OK. Personally I don't like it and would have no problem with another Bond vs Blofeld film.

I would be fine with OHMSS type of ending happening at the beginning so we can see Bond get back into HMSS and go after Blofeld. The original series never delivered that. Not in a good way. Tracy's murder was never even mention in DAF.

Except that this happened in both the book and film. It's the first Bond novel and it's the first Bond film of the reboot. The idea, I believe, being that Tracy is the first woman Bond encounters since Vesper that he is willing to give up everything for. He was burned the first time with Vesper being a double agent and what makes Tracy special is that he finally able to get over that betrayal for her. I don't see what Swann did that would make Bond decide that this is the time to settle down and get out, unless they're either pushing the idea that the 00 section is out the door in the very near future, or Daniel Craig is.

Bond and Blofeld should be like Batman and the Joker, or Superman and Lex Luthor. There needs to be more with them. If the next one doesn't have Blofeld, they will have made a sad misstep. I imagine SPECTRE should still be powerful enough to manage a jailbreak.

And yes, Star Trek was so dumb. So very, very, very dumb. It hurt my brain and now I can't remember my dog's name anymore.

 

[JAWS]

Except that this happened in both the book and film. It's the first Bond novel and it's the first Bond film of the reboot. The idea, I believe, being that Tracy is the first woman Bond encounters since Vesper that he is willing to give up everything for. He was burned the first time with Vesper being a double agent and what makes Tracy special is that he finally able to get over that betrayal for her. I don't see what Swann did that would make Bond decide that this is the time to settle down and get out, unless they're either pushing the idea that the 00 section is out the door in the very near future, or Daniel Craig is.

Bond and Blofeld should be like Batman and the Joker, or Superman and Lex Luthor. There needs to be more with them. If the next one doesn't have Blofeld, they will have made a sad misstep. I imagine SPECTRE should still be powerful enough to manage a jailbreak.

And yes, Star Trek was so dumb. So very, very, very dumb. It hurt my brain and now I can't remember my dog's name anymore.

Thanks for the clear up... I never read the books though I am thinking of doing so.

I was going by the film itself. It led me to believe Bond was getting out. Add to the the fact that she is the first Bond girl I can think of that said "I love You" other then Tracy.

Not saying it was done well but I think that was the point. She stated she was leaving him because he could never leave the job. But at the end of the film Q is surprised when Bond show up and Bond asks for "one more thing" and then leaves with the girl at the end. She is also the daughter of a criminal element. Tracy's father was also a crime lord. Again I am not saying that it was done as well as OHMSS but it could be seen as going in that direction.

And yes Bond and Blofeld need more films together.

Bu tif this is Craigs last film I have a feeling that the next film will ignore the events of the last 4 films.

 

[slackerboy]

Thanks for the clear up... I never read the books though I am thinking of doing so.

I was going by the film itself. It led me to believe Bond was getting out. Add to the the fact that she is the first Bond girl I can think of that said "I love You" other then Tracy.

Not saying it was done well but I think that was the point. She stated she was leaving him because he could never leave the job. But at the end of the film Q is surprised when Bond show up and Bond asks for "one more thing" and then leaves with the girl at the end. She is also the daughter of a criminal element. Tracy's father was also a crime lord. Again I am not saying that it was done as well as OHMSS but it could be seen as going in that direction.

And yes Bond and Blofeld need more films together.

Bu tif this is Craigs last film I have a feeling that the next film will ignore the events of the last 4 films.

The books are a lot different than the movies. You'll recognize pieces and parts here and there, but they'll be from the wrong book. Usually the movies kept the title and the names, and little else. Ironically, the movie closest to the book by far is OHMSS, but as you said before, they never were able to follow up properly. Doesn't help that the next book in the series was You Only Live Twice, which was the movie BEFORE OHMSS (D'oh!)

The modern Casino Royale had a lot that was in the book as well. Dr. No and From Russia With Love were also close to the book, after that, not so much.

I do also think that they're headed in the same direction at the end of Spectre. We'll see how it goes, and if it is his last, then it wouldn't be the first time a new Bond came along and started doing his own thing. They can still have him vs. Blofeld, even if it's a different actor. That also wouldn't be the first time that's happened. I just really hope the character isn't a one and done.

 

[jye4ever]

I kept thinking at the end that Swan was going to be revealed as the real Blofeld.

 

[Mighty_Jabba]

OHMSS is a classic but Tracy's death has nothing to do with these films since they are a true "restart" and not an alternate time line like
Trek.

Your point about OHMSS being cheapened should have already happened for you in CR since Bond falls in Love, and is willing to retire, and then she is killed. As far as QOS goes... QoS is a bad revenge film... I don't remember it well but I don't recall any real revenge being taken in the film.

The one reason Swann's death might not work is the fact that CR already had that happen. IMO it would cheapen that more then it would OHMSS since those events never happened.


I don't agree with your Comparison with Star Trek. That film was dumb in many different ways.. The worst being Kirk's death in place of Spock. Spock's stupid reaction and Spock becoming an action star. It also takes place in the same Universe, meaning it;s supposed to be all the same characters but in a different time warp. Thus the death of Spock is cheapened.

If the Craig films were not an actual reboot and if the new film kills Bond and Madeline Swann becomes the action star then I might agree with you but Tracy does not exist in this Bond world. Tracy's death was the reason Bond never retires again or settles down. You may not like the new character but she causes Bond to retire (thus should cheapen Tracy's character again for you right there). Having her be killed would not effect OHMSS at all IMO since in the Craig world those events never happened.

Again this Bond is a reboot so if you are happy with him riding off in the sunset with his new squeeze (ala Dark Knight Rises) and Blofeld being in jail then that is OK. Personally I don't like it and would have no problem with another Bond vs Blofeld film.

I would be fine with OHMSS type of ending happening at the beginning so we can see Bond get back into HMSS and go after Blofeld. The original series never delivered that. Not in a good way. Tracy's murder was never even mention in DAF.

I didn't mean that it would cheapen OHMSS, but that it would seem cheap in the context of the new film, since like you said they didn't do the whole romance part of the story well. Regardless, I hope that they will go forward creating new stories rather than retreading old ground.

 

[JAWS]

Got back from my second viewing... I still really like it. A few things I noticed this time or did not mention the first time.

1. I can't get over that for a 2 1/2 hour movie how fast it goes by... I have read complaints about it being slow but I really think the pace is great.

2. As has been mentioned before but I was shocked even more by how forced the love story was. Does not bother me but I giggled a bit. But I like that Blofeld points out that she is the Daughter of an Assassin and is the only one who can understand Bond.

3. I have read that some don't like Batista's death...

Spoiler

That is because he is not dead. Now this is wishful thinking on my part but since he already survived going threw a window and being shot without much of a scratch then getting pulled out by a rope around his neck wont stop him JAWS from the Moore area has been through worse :LOL

4. I still like it a little more then Skyfall. Much of that has to d with what I thought was better pacing and a more Bond like atmosphere.

5.

Spoiler

I am really happy that the first time I watched this I had no idea that Waltz was Blofeld. I know I should have suspected but they kept it a good secret even though it was an organization like SMERSH. I guess that since I heard nothing about it I never considered it. Even when they showed the white cat I just figured it was a wink and a nod towards the older films like the Craig movies had done so many other times before. I liked seeing him get that Scar also.

6. I am satisfied with my placement on my Bond list... This is a great Bond film.

 

[JAWS]

The film was good but to me Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation this year was a much better film overall and definitely a lot more entertaining. If this is Daniel Craig's last film it's a good way to end it.

My biggest issue with the MI films (and I like them all but part 2) is the lack of great villains. I think its why 3 is my fav. Hoffman was great in that... I really can not tell you who the villain was in 5.

 

[JAWS]

I have to ask... I have seen a few people mention that Moneypenny was not involved much... Everyone is aware that she got more to do in this film then all the other Bond films combined right... She is a secretary. I know the Skyfall makes her originally a field agent but I thought she was just fine in this film.

Truth of the matter is the newer Bond films give all the side characters way more to do then they got to in the original films.

Anyways Great Bond movie I look forward to it on Blu ray and hope that Craig does it for the money and comes back for one more. Probably my fav film of the year so far.