Spider-Man: No Way Home (December 17th, 2021)

[ZE_501]

Some however are just average people who get caught up in the narrative and end up worse than they were.

If awkward 15-year old me could have seen himself at 20, 27, 32, 39, 48 ... it would have blown his dorky little mind.

But in a way I *did* see myself. I aspired to be the person I am now back when it seemed like an unattainable fantasy. It took work and failures and more work and then still more failures.

I don't know how to communicate that to people who aren't receptive to it. I was a stubborn kid and I never gave up.

Young guys at the gym kept asking me how to do this, how to be that, looking for hot tips and secrets. I always told them the same thing.

"Just keep showing up, no matter what."

 

[Victοr]

If awkward 15-year old me could have seen himself at 20, 27, 32, 39, 48 ... it would have blown his dorky little mind.

But in a way I *did* see myself. I aspired to be the person I am now back when it seemed like an unattainable fantasy. It took work and failures and more work and then still more failures.

I don't know how to communicate that to people who aren't receptive to it. I was a stubborn kid and I never gave up.

Young guys at the gym kept asking me how to do this, how to be that, looking for hot tips and secrets. I always told them the same thing.

"Just keep showing up, no matter what."

That's the proper way to deal with it. But many can't. We all wish he had an extra few things going for us, but there are some folks who are just screwed from the start. Bad families, wrong place and wrong time, awful genes. The bottom line though is that, ultimately, all you can do is keep going. If you give up, you get stuck in a negative feedback loop. The problem is that the whole world's turned into a Rat Race and some can't keep up. If you get out, you're done for. Things are tough. And the last few generations had unlimited access to the 'net. Now it's completely locked and controlled, at least the base level, but back then it was fairly unregulated. Being 12 YOs and able to find whatever you want is a dangerous recipe. It's a brand new world and can't really be predicted with practises of the past. The interconnectivity of the digital and the actual have made things very complicated.

Still, the bottom line does come to "keep going". But it is a hard thing to put to practise. Especially when it's a fact that not everybody makes it.

 

[ZE_501]

Still, the bottom line does come to "keep going". But it is a hard thing to put to practise. Especially when it's a fact that not everybody makes it.

There are many slightly different translations, but:

“Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom nor technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.”
― Yamamoto Tsunetomo,
Hagakure, The Book of the Samurai

Whereas this quote and the feudal samurai mentality can very easily be twisted and stirred into toxic masculinity, I always saw it in a far more positive light.

It's actually how the MCU's Captain America operates. In my life I've done things that on the surface, rationally speaking -- I had no business doing and failed at repeatedly and painfully before succeeding. And those were the things that have made the biggest and most positive difference.

I worry about young men who don't have that tenacity, because I've seen what happens to them when they're middle-aged men.

 

[ironwez20]

Such a tiny part shouldn't be such a big deal in my opinion. I've red people complaining about it because it makes Spider-Man lose his status as an average Joe hero.. What. Just because his dad mutated his blood instead of being bitten by a spider immediately makes him less relatable?

Its not like we're getting bitten by radioactive spiders, mutating and shooting webs out of our ass like Spider-M,... Wait what.

Cause it’s stupid. He wasn’t gifted with the power he was given it. The magic of Spider-Man is that it could of happened to anyone but he was chosen for it. It’s the whole meaning of with great power. You were given great power now use it wisely. The parents plot was stupid and made no sense

 

[Victοr]

There are many slightly different translations, but:

“Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom nor technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.”
― Yamamoto Tsunetomo,
Hagakure, The Book of the Samurai

It's a nice quote and a sentiment. Albeit poetic and exaggerated, as it should be; though most things in life are to be handled with logic if one wants to come out alive. But some people are so screwed from the beginning that there's really no point in trying.

Whereas this quote and the feudal samurai mentality can very easily be twisted and stirred into toxic masculinity, I always saw it in a far more positive light.

Is "Toxic Masculinity" still a thing people on Twitter and Gillete ads complain about?

It's actually how the MCU's Captain America operates. In my life I've done things that on the surface, rationally speaking -- I had no business doing and failed at repeatedly and painfully before succeeding. And those were the things that have made the biggest and most positive difference.

I worry about young men who don't have that tenacity, because I've seen what happens to them when they're middle-aged men.

I get your point, and on a general basis it's true; you don't give up on the first hurdle. The thing is that these people aren't just normal guys who gave up because they were weak. They grew up in weird homes, they ended up short, ugly and untalented; life just didn't give them anything. So their defeatism is natural. Whether one approves is up for debate. But it's nothing new, really. We're just more exposed to it due to the internet.

 

[ZE_501]

It's a nice quote and a sentiment. Albeit poetic and exaggerated, as it should be; though most things in life are to be handled with logic if one wants to come out alive.

When one weighs it against the context of feudal warfare and the likelihood of painful death in combat, it doesn't seem exaggerated per se, but yeah.

Is "Toxic Masculinity" still a thing people on Twitter and Gillete ads complain about?

I don't know, I don't view either of them. Whatever you want to call it, there's no doubt in my mind that young men were (and to some extent still are) sold a 2-dimensional view of manhood that screws up their cognition and emotional coping skills to one degree or another. This is coming from someone who loves and practiced (too old to fight now) full contact martial arts, so I'm not being 'soft' or whatever LOL.

I get your point, and on a general basis it's true; you don't give up on the first hurdle.

Or the 10th or the 25th.

The thing is that these people aren't just normal guys who gave up because they were weak. They grew up in weird homes, they ended up short, ugly and untalented; life just didn't give them anything. So their defeatism is natural. Whether one approves is up for debate. But it's nothing new, really. We're just more exposed to it due to the internet.

Fair enough. Life is very unfair. But in my experience people's limits -- although quite real because we live in a real and unfair world -- aren't where they think they are. And I'm a big fan of maximizing what you've got, however much or little that is. But I suppose even that disposition is 50% genetic.

 

[Victοr]

When one weighs it against the context of feudal warfare and the likelihood of painful death in combat, it doesn't seem exaggerated per se, but yeah.

Yeah, but you got my point.

I don't know, I don't view either of them. Whatever you want to call it, there's no doubt in my mind that young men were (and to some extent still are) sold a 2-dimensional view of manhood that screws up their cognition and emotional coping skills to one degree or another. This is coming from someone who loves and practiced (too old to fight now) full contact martial arts, so I'm not being 'soft' or whatever LOL.

I will agree on that. Nobody should go out pretending to be Sgt. Slaughter in the suburbs. It's just that "Toxic Masculinity", for the last few years, essentially has meant what Freshmen girls on Gender Studies think about the dudebro who likes Tarantino flicks, to the point where it's a term I don't take seriously. But I get the point. People in general lack balance, so they latch onto extreme archetypes. Some play pretend as machomen, others as manic pixie dream girls, others as silent tough guys, others like a "girlboss" and so on and so forth. They can't pick and choose what works and construct a functional personality, even if sometimes we need different "masks".

Or the 10th or the 25th.

It can be argued that at some point you should get the memo that you aren't cut out for that and seek fulfilment elsewhere though.

Fair enough. Life is very unfair. But in my experience people's limits -- although quite real because we live in a real and unfair world -- aren't where they think they are. And I'm a big fan of maximizing what you've got, however much or little that is. But I suppose even that disposition is 50% genetic.

I will agree that you should go as far as you can, but there are natural limits. Wasted chances that never come back. It's a sad fact, but sometimes certain people are just destined to lose, period.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I worry about young men who don't have that tenacity, because I've seen what happens to them when they're middle-aged men.

What happens to them? I'm asking for a... friend..

 

[ZE_501]

People in general lack balance, so they latch onto extreme archetypes. Some play pretend as machomen, others as manic pixie dream girls, others as silent tough guys, others like a "girlboss" and so on and so forth. They can't pick and choose what works and construct a functional personality, even if sometimes we need different "masks".

Yes to all that.

It can be argued that at some point you should get the memo that you aren't cut out for that and seek fulfilment elsewhere though.

True, but this is why socialization and trusted mentors are important for outside perspectives and guidance. We're a social species. Of course that opens up a whole other can of worms.

I will agree that you should go as far as you can, but there are natural limits. Wasted chances that never come back. It's a sad fact, but sometimes certain people are just destined to lose, period.

I was never going to be Mike Tyson and I could break down why for you in technical terms, yet what I gained from my experiences is priceless. Courage, strength, physical and mental resilience, self-knowledge. My last fight was against a superior opponent -- I lost -- but that's also my best one and the one people still talk about, and the one I value the most.

So there are journeys worth taking regardless of the outcome. Losing is not the worst thing that can happen.

Obviously I knew enough to hang up the gloves when I did, but I walked away a far better person than when I started.

Some people are going to lose at a lot of things, but you get one life, you get your time on this incredible planet filled with wonder and beauty, you get your time in the sun, long or short. You do every f***ing thing you can with it, squeeze what you can from it.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Hahaha....but really, what happens to them?

 

[ZE_501]

Hahaha....but really, what happens to them?

What I've seen? They range from being emotionally stunted to being very, very angry and depressed with chronic low self-esteem, and as they get older it becomes more difficult to adapt, to take risks, to change and grow.

Can't be too glib about it, it's not just a matter of 'making better choices' -- some people really do need professional help if they haven't got a certain predisposition, so whatever the cause ... well life is hard and people can slip through the cracks either by choosing not to act or because they couldn't get the help they needed.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

What I've seen? They range from being emotionally stunted to being very, very angry and depressed with chronic low self-esteem, and as they get older it becomes more difficult to adapt, to take risks, to change and grow.

Can't be too glib about it, it's not just a matter of 'making better choices' -- some people really do need professional help if they haven't got a certain predisposition, so whatever the cause ... well life is hard and people can slip through the cracks either by choosing not to act or because they couldn't get the help they needed.

Like Arthur in Joker?

 

[ZE_501]

Like Arthur in Joker?

The most extreme case I've seen is pretty damn close. He's usually meek but I've seen him angry and it's scary. And I don't scare easy.

*edit: On the less extreme end, you see these guys all the time ... they're bitter and lash out because they're not at peace with themselves or the choices they made/didn't make.

 

[Ropen]

Especially in the age of #Metoo you really can’t say anything to whatever gender because they pull out that incel card on you real quick, I was in target once and two college age girls were in front of me and some guy across the cashier was like “my daughter is going to that school” lolol i was the innocent by stander but he was soooo desperate trying to start a convo, once it got anywhere I heard them say to each other, “ugh, what a creep and weirdo” i was like well damn, aside from minding my business I pretended real hard to not even look their general direction, times have definetely changed. Lolololol

Yeah Reddit is bad the worst of the internet from all sides reside there, it’s worse than a hive mentality lololol, you should see their arguments on the XX Chromosome subreddit lmao.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Especially in the age of #Metoo you really can’t say anything to whatever gender because they pull out that incel card on you real quick, I was in target once and two college age girls were in front of me and some guy across the cashier was like “my daughter is going to that school” lolol i was the innocent by stander but he was soooo desperate trying to start a convo, once it got anywhere I heard them say to each other, “ugh, what a creep and weirdo” i was like well damn, aside from minding my business I pretended real hard to not even look their general direction, times have definetely changed. Lolololol

Yeah Reddit is bad the worst of the internet from all sides reside there, it’s worse than a hive mentality lololol, you should see their arguments on the XX Chromosome subreddit lmao.

Was the guy attractive? That usually makes a difference. What's considered creepy, sexist, and negative, is usually charming and sweet if you're attractive or high value.

 

[Victοr]

True, but this is why socialization and trusted mentors are important for outside perspectives and guidance. We're a social species. Of course that opens up a whole other can of worms.

Exactly.

I was never going to be Mike Tyson and I could break down why for you in technical terms, yet what I gained from my experiences is priceless. Courage, strength, physical and mental resilience, self-knowledge. My last fight was against a superior opponent -- I lost -- but that's also my best one and the one people still talk about, and the one I value the most.

So there are journeys worth taking regardless of the outcome. Losing is not the worst thing that can happen.

Obviously I knew enough to hang up the gloves when I did, but I walked away a far better person than when I started.

Some people are going to lose at a lot of things, but you get one life, you get your time on this incredible planet filled with wonder and beauty, you get your time in the sun, long or short. You do every f***ing thing you can with it, squeeze what you can from it.

That's all correct, but I'm mostly talking about the lost cases. If a guy's 5'5", bald at 22, with no money or connections to back him, and no particular talent anywhere, no amount of trying really hard is going to help him. Some folks are just born to lose. If they can isolate themselves enough to have a functional living, fill the void with some passing pleasure, and nowadays vent online with like-minded people, then things could be worse. On the other side of the coin, I'm talking about people who want something but are just untalented at it. No amount of trying will help you there either, so learn your strengths and weakness and adjust properly. You might want to be a model, but if you're pudgy butterface standing at 5'6", then better work on that sociology exam you've got a knack for. Dreams are fine and necessary even, but we need some proper self-reflection. "Not giving up" is a good quality when you're already good at something and no matter the odds you hone your craft to get to the next level. Sure, that other guy might have a better predisposition but maybe you'll edge him out by working more, or with some luck, or anything. But you need to be already good enough in that particular field. Talent and tenacity are both needed.

Yeah Reddit is bad the worst of the internet from all sides reside there, it’s worse than a hive mentality lololol, you should see their arguments on the XX Chromosome subreddit lmao.

Reddit's just a bunch of midwit normies in general. They are the hivemind. Fringe groups exist, and while it's got more "uniqueness" than most forums these days, it's not exactly the "intellectual hive of scum and villainy" that they think themselves to be.

Was the guy attractive? That usually makes a difference. What's considered creepy, sexist, and negative, is usually charming and sweet if you're attractive or high value.

This too. We all know these things, and they've been true since forever. It's just that the current society we live in is built around pretending to ignore that while still operating in the same exact way.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

That's all correct, but I'm mostly talking about the lost cases. If a guy's 5'5", bald at 22, with no money or connections to back him, and no particular talent anywhere, no amount of trying really hard is going to help him. Some folks are just born to lose.

22 years old and already a lost case? Come on, that's too young to be a written off.

 

[Victοr]

22 years old and already a lost case? Come on, that's too young to be a written off.

At 22 the highly driven, and most of the normies, have finished Uni and going to their Post-Grads, or they have a stable job in some career or something. Sure, you can turn things around and go to Uni or try to set up a career at 22, that's not the point. I'm talking about the kind of people that give up from that age and isolate themselves. These people are the kind that just lost it all. Are you seriously going to tell a financially poor, friendless, KHV, ugly, bald at 22, 5'5" guy to "just be confident bro"? He's not fixing his life. He never had a chance. Some people were just lost from the very beginning. Every society has its rejects and dregs. Not everyone makes it and sometimes even an average life is too farfetched.

 

[jye4ever]

At 22 the highly driven, and most of the normies, have finished Uni and going to their Post-Grads, or they have a stable job in some career or something. Sure, you can turn things around and go to Uni or try to set up a career at 22, that's not the point. I'm talking about the kind of people that give up from that age and isolate themselves. These people are the kind that just lost it all. Are you seriously going to tell a financially poor, friendless, KHV, ugly, bald at 22, 5'5" guy to "just be confident bro"? He's not fixing his life. He never had a chance. Some people were just lost from the very beginning. Every society has its rejects and dregs. Not everyone makes it and sometimes even an average life is too farfetched.

 

[Ropen]

Reddit's just a bunch of midwit normies in general. They are the hivemind. Fringe groups exist, and while it's got more "uniqueness" than most forums these days, it's not exactly the "intellectual hive of scum and villainy" that they think themselves to be.


This too. We all know these things, and they've been true since forever. It's just that the current society we live in is built around pretending to ignore that while still operating in the same exact way.

I feel that 75% of social media posts, are other posts they share from either Twitter or instagram cherry picking a controversial topic with a reply they like, get a **** ton of karma and rewards, then feel completely validated at the end of the day With their 17k or so comments lololol

This is why i deleted my reddit account though And as of yesterday a lot of sub redditor’s mods were trying to shut down other sub Reddit’s that spread misinformation only to be slapped in the face by Reddit by playing the “freedom” of speech card on them, basically reading their comments melting down as they implode on their on bliss on why reddit wasn’t on their side because they seem to “polarize” them, wtfffff

I honestly don’t remember what he looked like but he was mid 40’s, mid 50’s possibly lolol, people don’t like to small talk anymore, such a shame, I think that was the intent, they seemed bothered they were being talked to in the first place but who can tell nowadays anymore, hence why i just stick to myself, not quitting at all, just not starting conversations unless spoken too