Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Sachiel]

 

[ironwez20]

A hero who loses his way and picks himself up and finds his way again is much more interesting to watch than a hero who isn?t flawed.

Obviously there are exceptions like MCU Cap who remained steadfast in his heroism and was thrilling to watch but they also had 20 other characters to surround him with that kept him interesting.

Why are you so obsessed with having a character stay exactly the same for 50 years, your characters would be so one note sheesh lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

O yea sure. Except we saw him lose his way before and how he loses his way was stupid and made no sense. Characters can change and evolve without making them crap or failures. Sometimes bad writing is bad writing

 

[loki2371]

Man, I can’t wait to watch a cartoon that shows Luke being a failed Jedi Master, Han being a dead beat drunk dad, and Leia the awful politician and mother!

Can't wait for the scene where Leia catches Han drunk with Chewy getting it on in the Falcon... Or maybe a scene where Han gets a little loud and Leia whoops his ass... All the while with little Ben hiding in the background watching his mom and dad fall apart while slowly being manipulated by Snoke, I mean Palpatine... Maybe they'll be lots of scenes with Ben and his Nanny as we see Ben's evil seeds blooming during his childhood. Or maybe Han gets it on with the Nanny? So many possibilities with Han's return to his loner ways and forsaking his family, Leia neglecting her family responsibilities as she dedicates all her time to the New Republic Resistance band, little Ben's hidden secret manipulation, and Luke's failed attempt to restore the Jedi Order.. So Exciting!!



But seriously, if they stay away from the ST then they can't really show Han, Chewy, Leia or little Ben at all.... They can show Luke off on his own maybe, but that's about it. SO without changing the ST they can't really do much with our OT characters.

 

[JAWS]

A hero who loses his way and picks himself up and finds his way again is much more interesting to watch than a hero who isn?t flawed.

Obviously there are exceptions like MCU Cap who remained steadfast in his heroism and was thrilling to watch but they also had 20 other characters to surround him with that kept him interesting.

Why are you so obsessed with having a character stay exactly the same for 50 years, your characters would be so one note sheesh lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This.




And again this crap about deadbeat dad with Han.. I just.. I don't know.. We are going in circles again with this argument..

Han and Leia lost their son.. He became a serial Killer basically... **** like that ****s up a family.

Add to that the fact it was the perfect thing to divide up the core Hero's so the first order could come into power.

 

[JAWS]

O yea sure. Except we saw him lose his way before and how he loses his way was stupid and made no sense. Characters can change and evolve without making them crap or failures. Sometimes bad writing is bad writing

Let me see..

Anakin became a mass murderer because of a bad dream that he had about losing someone he cared for.

Luke it tempted to kill someone to prevent them from becoming a mass murderer to save everyone he cares for.

 

[JAWS]

Can't wait for the scene where Leia catches Han drunk with Chewy getting it on in the Falcon... Or maybe a scene where Han gets a little loud and Leia whoops his ass... All the while with little Ben hiding in the background watching his mom and dad fall apart while slowly being manipulated by Snoke, I mean Palpatine... Maybe they'll be lots of scenes with Ben and his Nanny as we see Ben's evil seeds blooming during his childhood. Or maybe Han gets it on with the Nanny? So many possibilities with Han's return to his loner ways and forsaking his family, Leia neglecting her family responsibilities as she dedicates all her time to the New Republic Resistance band, little Ben's hidden secret manipulation, and Luke's failed attempt to restore the Jedi Order.. So Exciting!!



But seriously, if they stay away from the ST then they can't really show Han, Chewy, Leia or little Ben at all.... They can show Luke off on his own maybe, but that's about it. SO without changing the ST they can't really do much with our OT characters.

Ben was 23 years old on that fateful night with Luke.

There was 5 years before he was born.

There are plenty of stories to tell in that time without acting like the ST never happened.

Hell I would not mind seeing how the loss of Ben to the dark side really effected Han and Leia.


I never knew I would care about the PT characters in their own cartoons after AOTC until I saw it. The show is so much better then the actual PT movies and it helped me appreciate the friendship between Obi Wan and Anakin more.

 

[jye4ever]

This.




And again this crap about deadbeat dad with Han.. I just.. I don't know.. We are going in circles again with this argument..

Han and Leia lost their son.. He became a serial Killer basically... **** like that ****s up a family.

Add to that the fact it was the perfect thing to divide up the core Hero's so the first order could come into power.

Yup

Think about just how stupid Luke, Leia and Han would have looked had the FO come into power while:

Luke was a perfect Jedi master on Coruscant

Leia was a perfect politician on Coruscant

Han was a perfect husband to Leia

Then the complaint would have been how did the republic not see the FO forming lol

At least it was more believable that the emperor and his First Order and Final Order minions grew into power while the heroes of the republic were in a midst of personal crisis versus Darth Sidious tricking a fully functioning Jedi Council WITH YODA as the head!

Man were they stoopid lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[loki2371]

Ben was 23 years old on that fateful night with Luke.

There was 5 years before he was born.

There are plenty of stories to tell in that time without acting like the ST never happened.

Hell I would not mind seeing how the loss of Ben to the dark side really effected Han and Leia.


I never knew I would care about the PT characters in their own cartoons after AOTC until I saw it. The show is so much better then the actual PT movies and it helped me appreciate the friendship between Obi Wan and Anakin more.

I agree with what you say. Especially the TCW. The animated series totally changed the way I view the PT movies.

There are plenty of stories to tell if they choose to keep the ST as cannon. The problem is if there is any truth to the rumors of decannonizing the ST and in fact retconning it, then that would have to be announced before they touch upon the lives of Han, Leia, Luke and Ben in the time period between ROTJ and TFA. They can't have stories in the form of cartoons, novels or comics without a certain direction, at least not involving the main characters in the ST. If they choose to keep the ST, then not a problem as we know the outcome and they can show events leading up to it..

But if they do decide to change it, then the future is unwritten and they can go in whatever new direction they choose. But they can't contradict a clear path of events that would lead the the ST trilogy already knowing the outcome. That would be ubsurd, create new problems and fan backlash and piss off both those that support the ST and dislike it. That is why the rumors of changing the ST to non cannon would need to be announced first before going ahead with new stories that would contradict the events in the ST.

I could see nothing new being announced until Celebration 2022. Just riding the Mando train, and hopefully as equally successful Obi-Wan and perhaps Ahsoka shows. When Kennedy is either still involved (after her current contract ends in 2021) or some one new takes the reigns...

 

[ironwez20]

Let me see..

Anakin became a mass murderer because of a bad dream that he had about losing someone he cared for.

Luke it tempted to kill someone to prevent them from becoming a mass murderer to save everyone he cares for.

Stop being so blinded by the ST. Luke going away and crying cause he saw something that he could of easily prevented is bad writing. Anakin becoming Vader and being scared that Padme was built up. Like come on man. I know you don?t like the PT but don?t compare the two.

There is no comparison to be made. The ST isn?t written well

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Man, I can?t wait to watch a cartoon that shows Luke being a failed Jedi Master, Han being a dead beat drunk dad, and Leia the awful politician and mother!

The manner the OT characters, mythos, and story were portrayed and altered in the ST was absolutely despicable. It's still beyond me how you could claim to be an OT fan and be OK with that garbage.

 

[jal76]

Love it or hate it the sequel trilogy is objectively a failure as far as Disney would be concerned. It?s a well documented fact that Disney did not purchase Lucasfilm to make money from selling movie tickets. This is not what the board signed off on. The value of the purchase was predicated on the sales of merchandise, toys, theme park tickets, cruise tickets, Star Wars themed hotel rooms, etc. The sequel trilogy was green lit to act as the equivalent of an ad campaign to create new Star Wars fans who would want to buy all of the other stuff. People spend millions on ad campaigns without expecting to make money from ad viewings the ROI comes from people spending their money on the products being advertised. Money made from the films themselves was just a bonus. It was always a merchandising play. I don?t have to tell this group that that did not work out for Disney. I have a line of Black Series Rose peg warmers who will testify to this and even before the pandemic Galaxy?s Edge was a ghost town that did nothing to improve attendance at the Disney parks. The films had the opposite effect and actually diminished consumer enthusiasm for Star Wars. It?s not about Rotten Tomatoes scores or box office and as a result the sequel trilogy was objectively a failure.

 

[ironwez20]

The manner the OT characters, mythos, and story were portrayed and altered in the ST was absolutely despicable. It's still beyond me how you could claim to be an OT fan and be OK with that garbage.

Jye is on that stuff. Khev has a duel personality and jaws is very old so he can?t tell what?s good anymore. Lol jk jaws. But jye and khev ones are true

 

[ironwez20]

Love it or hate it the sequel trilogy is objectively a failure as far as Disney would be concerned. It?s a well documented fact that Disney did not purchase Lucasfilm to make money from selling movie tickets. This is not what the board signed off on. The value of the purchase was predicated on the sales of merchandise, toys, theme park tickets, cruise tickets, Star Wars themed hotel rooms, etc. The sequel trilogy was green lit to act as the equivalent of an ad campaign to create new Star Wars fans who would want to buy all of the other stuff. People spend millions on ad campaigns without expecting to make money from ad viewings the ROI comes from people spending their money on the products being advertised. Money made from the films themselves was just a bonus. It was always a merchandising play. I don?t have to tell this group that that did not work out for Disney. I have a line of Black Series Rose peg warmers who will testify to this and even before the pandemic Galaxy?s Edge was a ghost town that did nothing to improve attendance at the Disney parks. The films had the opposite effect and actually diminished consumer enthusiasm for Star Wars. It?s not about Rotten Tomatoes scores or box office and as a result the sequel trilogy was objectively a failure.

Ducky has been telling them this but the response is ? but da PT did this? nope. Stop. Mando is the only Star Wars property that is pumping out merch people want rn.

 

[jal76]

Ducky has been telling them this but the response is ? but da PT did this? nope. Stop. Mando is the only Star Wars property that is pumping out merch people want rn.

Yep and that would all be revisionist garbage...not everyone was thrilled with the PT but people were standing in lines at Toys R Us and the merchandise was flying off the shelves. I remember taking to people who said they hated the movies while they were literally waist deep in PT merchandise because they still felt that it was worthwhile. Not the case with the ST. No one gets excited about ANY merchandise related to it. The biggest threat to finding PT merchandise is that stores know that no one wants it so they don?t even bother stocking it. I remember the day that TROS merchandise released going into stores and seeing tiny smatterings of merchandise from TROS mixed in with old TLJ stuff that was still unsold 2 years later. Meanwhile two aisles away there were gigantic sections of the store dedicated to Frozen II. This was never the case with the PT merchandise.

 

[a-dev]

I had sorta thought the merchandise died off with the PT but maybe that was just inevitable general SW fatigue after awhile that wasn't specifically linked to the PT. But if the ST was supposed to bring it all back, well, it clearly failed.

The PT was definitely toyetic enough between Jedi and Sith characters, clone and droid armies and some pretty cool and memorable vehicle designs. The ST just has its main characters and Quack troopers. Other than the Falcon I can't remember a single vehicle in the entire trilogy.

I'll admit you guys have the win on the merchandise argument.

 

[Prime Clone]

Maybe the ST is just too similar to the OT? I know the PT was off-putting for many, but it was also different enough to be interesting.


Meanwhile: Same emotional level as the Vader twist? I don't think so.

 

[jal76]

I had sorta thought the merchandise died off with the PT but maybe that was just inevitable general SW fatigue after awhile that wasn't specifically linked to the PT. But if the ST was supposed to bring it all back, well, it clearly failed.

The PT was definitely toyetic enough between Jedi and Sith characters, clone and droid armies and some pretty cool and memorable vehicle designs. The ST just has its main characters and Quack troopers. Other than the Falcon I can't remember a single vehicle in the entire trilogy.

I'll admit you guys have the win on the merchandise argument.

Yep...sales boomed and were at an all time high with the release of TPM...it softened with AOTC and ROTS but that is to be expected similar to the expected diminishing box office returns of a second and third film versus a first. While the merchandise sales were not as strong for EPS 2 -3 they were certainly not in the toilet as they were for the sequel trilogy. You also have to consider that the missions were different too. Lucas wanted to finally tell the first 3 chapters of his story and complete his saga. Bob Iger wanted to increase the Walt Disney Company?s merchandise earnings and create Theme Park experiences that would drive annual pass sales. Remember, Disney Parks, Experiences and Consumer products is one division within the Walt Disney Company. This covers Theme Parks, Merchandise, etc. This division is typically responsible for generating over 41% of the Disney Company?s over-all revenue. Disney did not buy Star Wars for the film division but for this one. No one wanted merchandise about those characters and no one wanted to visit a Theme Park that has Kylo Ren and Rey walking around but no Darth Vader or Han Solo...so they failed.

 

[abake]

That's a very good point about the reasons why Disney bought SW.
What astonishes me is the hubris, the arrogance, of making a SW theme park without the OT/PT characters. It just boggles the mind that anybody would think it's a good idea to do a SW theme park and not have Vader and the other OT characters in it.

 

[jal76]

That's a very good point about the reasons why Disney bought SW.
What astonishes me is the hubris, the arrogance, of making a SW theme park without the OT/PT characters. It just boggles the mind that anybody would think it's a good idea to do a SW theme park and not have Vader and the other OT characters in it.

Apparently Walt Disney Imagineering had spent years developing a theme park concept that was set on Tatooine where they would experience the Millennium Falcon, Mos Eiesly, etc. Vader and the rest of the gang would be there too. This makes sense as Tatooine plays such a relevant role in the OT and is prominently featured in 5 of the six films prior to the ST. Kathleen Kennedy came in and asked them to scrap it because she felt that in the grand scheme of things the PT and OT would eventually be viewed as just a tiny piece of the overall Star Wars story so she did not want the theme park property to revolve around what she described as Star Wars? ?past.? The story goes that the Imagineers were crushed because they had sunk a lot of time and effort into developing the Tatooine concept. Yep...so when no one showed up they kinda got what they deserved...

 

[abake]

What's even sadder is that all this lands at George's feet. He's the one with the poor personality judgement skills who pushed for KK, isn't he?