Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Awhile back it was revealed by a former Disney Vice President that a team worked extensively for years on the Galaxy's Edge theme park project and it was set to be OT Tatooine themed. Then Kennedy stepped in and cancelled it and replaced with her idea...

https://youtu.be/cstjbfDYiBM

 

[JAWS]

I had sorta thought the merchandise died off with the PT but maybe that was just inevitable general SW fatigue after awhile that wasn't specifically linked to the PT. But if the ST was supposed to bring it all back, well, it clearly failed.

The PT was definitely toyetic enough between Jedi and Sith characters, clone and droid armies and some pretty cool and memorable vehicle designs. The ST just has its main characters and Quack troopers. Other than the Falcon I can't remember a single vehicle in the entire trilogy.

I'll admit you guys have the win on the merchandise argument.

Nail on the head..


If it was Disney's desire to sell toys then they should have taken a lesson from George.

Lets face it the PT was made to sell toys. The ST... Not so much. The characters cloths did not change from film to film. They vehicles were not much different the OT vehicles so why bother. Other then Phasma and BB8 I cant think of a character that was made just to sell toys. I mean who wants a Rose figure

I have said from since the release of TFA that the ST was in dire need of some Georg Lucas imagination.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Meanwhile: Same emotional level as the Vader twist? I don't think so.

Does spontaneously laughing out loud and then muttering obscenities count as a high degree of emotional level? If so, then maybe.

BTW, since Rey's first ever use of Force lightning was powerful enough to obliterate a spaceship instantaneously, what does that say about Sheev's abilities with Force lightning in ROTJ and the PT? Palps didn't obliterate Luke or Yoda with anger-fueled and concentrated bursts, yet Rey obliviously explodes a ship in midair on her first "try" with it.

Just makes me wonder . . .

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Nail on the head..


If it was Disney's desire to sell toys then they should have taken a lesson from George.

Lets face it the PT was made to sell toys. The ST... Not so much. The characters cloths did not change from film to film. They vehicles were not much different the OT vehicles so why bother. Other then Phasma and BB8 I cant think of a character that was made just to sell toys. I mean who wants a Rose figure

I have said from since the release of TFA that the ST was in dire need of some Georg Lucas imagination.

Rey changed costumes every film and had at least 4 different outfits in 3 films. Kylo changed looks slightly every film(hey, people buy every slight change in Vader). There were new droids in every movie. Poe changed costumes multiple times as did Finn.

The point is the characters themselves are to blame. They sucked. Nobody buys them or the lame vehicles. But people still buy everything OT. The end.

 

[JAWS]

Stop being so blinded by the ST. Luke going away and crying cause he saw something that he could of easily prevented is bad writing.

I'm not blinded.. I just think don't think of that scene as the train wreck that you see. Its been discussed before but its all there in the film.. A moment of weakness.. In that moment regret and the loss of Ben Solo. By the time he awoke he had lost everything.

If you want to say that he should have gotten off his ass to stop Kylo.. Fine. There is an argument for that.. But everything before that was fine.​

Anakin becoming Vader and being scared that Padme was built up. Like come on man. I know you don?t like the PT but don?t compare the two.
There is no comparison to be made. The ST isn?t written well

Oh I would not say it was built up.. I mean he says something about saving his mom in the first film then he has his vison of Padme in the second.

The films really failed at showing Anakin's decent to the Dark Side. Other then the acting and the writing its one of the biggest complaints of the PT.

And I don't hate the PT. I really like TPM and feel like ROTS would have benefitted from an extra half hour of character building and done without the Yoda vs Palps so the end could focus on the thing we had all been waiting for.. Would have liked a better Final Duel also as I feel it was just too over the top and really just kind of a mess accept for a few moments.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

What's even sadder is that all this lands at George's feet. He's the one with the poor personality judgement skills who pushed for KK, isn't he?

He definitely is partially to blame because of what you typed, but to be fair it seems he was deceived/double crossed.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Does spontaneously laughing out loud and then muttering obscenities count as a high degree of emotional level? If so, then maybe.

BTW, since Rey's first ever use of Force lightning was powerful enough to obliterate a spaceship instantaneously, what does that say about Sheev's abilities with Force lightning in ROTJ and the PT? Palps didn't obliterate Luke or Yoda with anger-fueled and concentrated bursts, yet Rey obliviously explodes a ship in midair on her first "try" with it.

Just makes me wonder . . .

It was a truly awful scene, but sadly by that point not surprising. Kennedy was committed to making Rey(a twisted reflection of her own self image by the way) infallible.

 

[JAWS]

Rey changed costumes every film and had at least 4 different outfits in 3 films. Kylo changed looks slightly every film(hey, people buy every slight change in Vader). There were new droids in every movie. Poe changed costumes multiple times as did Finn.

The point is the characters themselves are to blame. They sucked. Nobody buys them or the lame vehicles. But people still buy everything OT. The end.

I remember Rey having two different looks. TFA/TROS and TLJ

As for everyone else changing looks.. We are not talking about ANH Luke / Bespin Luke / Jedi Luke / Hoth Luke / and X-wing Luke here.

Kylo had mask on Mask off..

Again Lucas made the SW films to make toys.. I remember all the freaking toys that came out before TPM... There was just a huge push. TRU was filled. They opened at midnight with a huge line waiting to get the toys..

I think the PT also may have effected how much people would by "action figures" after that.. Many of those sales came from collectors who thought if they kept those figures boxed up they could sell them for a small fortune like the OT figures.. Nope.. They are all worthless. So yeah... I think the collectors not running out and buying up the toys has something to do with ST sales also.

Which may be why Toy sales in general seem to be taking a massive hit.. Ala TRU going out of business.

 

[JAWS]

Apparently Walt Disney Imagineering had spent years developing a theme park concept that was set on Tatooine where they would experience the Millennium Falcon, Mos Eiesly, etc. Vader and the rest of the gang would be there too. This makes sense as Tatooine plays such a relevant role in the OT and is prominently featured in 5 of the six films prior to the ST. Kathleen Kennedy came in and asked them to scrap it because she felt that in the grand scheme of things the PT and OT would eventually be viewed as just a tiny piece of the overall Star Wars story so she did not want the theme park property to revolve around what she described as Star Wars? ?past.? The story goes that the Imagineers were crushed because they had sunk a lot of time and effort into developing the Tatooine concept. Yep...so when no one showed up they kinda got what they deserved...

This was one of the dumbest things she ever did.. She alienated all the OG SW fans. Even if everyone loved the ST there should always have been respect for the OT films.

Dumb.. Just dumb.

 

[JAWS]

Ducky has been telling them this but the response is ? but da PT did this? nope. Stop. Mando is the only Star Wars property that is pumping out merch people want rn.

As I just posted.. I am curious how much the toy collector / ebay flippers had to do with the failure also.. You could go into any collctor shop back then and see overpriced figures from the PT that nobody bought because everyone could get one. They were all over. George pushed merchandise hard.

But even then I remember way more TPM and AOTC toys then I do ROTS.. I think the even by then the demand for figures had gone down a bit.

I didn't see that push for the TFA and that was pretty much loved by everyone except the smart people like me

But I think with competition from MARVEL plus no big push in merch plus all the collectors being burned by the PT figures not going up in value = lack of sales.

Now I could be wrong.. I will admit I was not looking at toys around that time either. ​

Also I asked this before.. Do little girls even care about action figures overall? I mean...Even with the PT and OT I don't remember little girls having SW figures.

That may have been KKs biggest mistake in thinking that little girls would love SW as much as all the little boys did. Action figures and vehicles are mostly bought for little boys.. I never saw little girls in the action figure section.. And a lot of little boys wont play with a female action figure. I could be wrong but I don't ever see it happening.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I remember Rey having two different looks. TFA/TROS and TLJ

As for everyone else changing looks.. We are not talking about ANH Luke / Bespin Luke / Jedi Luke / Hoth Luke / and X-wing Luke here.

Kylo had mask on Mask off..

Again Lucas made the SW films to make toys.. I remember all the freaking toys that came out before TPM... There was just a huge push. TRU was filled. They opened at midnight with a huge line waiting to get the toys..

I think the PT also may have effected how much people would by "action figures" after that.. Many of those sales came from collectors who thought if they kept those figures boxed up they could sell them for a small fortune like the OT figures.. Nope.. They are all worthless. So yeah... I think the collectors not running out and buying up the toys has something to do with ST sales also.

Which may be why Toy sales in general seem to be taking a massive hit.. Ala TRU going out of business.

OT toys still sell like crazy, that is why companies continue to make them. I'm sure you remember the interview with the president of Diamond Toys saying that the ST stuff just doesn't sell and thus why companies no longer bother.

And there was a huge push for ST toys to be made, in the beginning. Remember all those unsold FO Hot Toys Stormtroopers? How about the dozen Roses gag? The pegs full of Holdos and Finns? They wanted to sell those ST characters but nobody bought them, so toy companies adjusted in the later films.

Plenty of Mandalorian stuff being made right now by the way!!!

And Rey had her 3 primary costumes, plus the Resistance one from end of TFA and the Dark look. So technically 5 looks i believe.

 

[abake]

Nail on the head..


If it was Disney's desire to sell toys then they should have taken a lesson from George.

Lets face it the PT was made to sell toys. The ST... Not so much. The characters cloths did not change from film to film. They vehicles were not much different the OT vehicles so why bother. Other then Phasma and BB8 I cant think of a character that was made just to sell toys. I mean who wants a Rose figure

I have said from since the release of TFA that the ST was in dire need of some Georg Lucas imagination.

I think that's both a bit harsh and misguided...

Clearly Lucas always had a nose for business and an understanding (visionary to say the least) of the role of merchandise/toys in the blockbuster era, but it's just as clear that he had a story to tell, something to say about "the hero's journey", politics, religion, rebelling against the system, etc... There was always a great story to tell about Luke, Anakin, Ben, Obi Wan, the Emperor, Palpatine... and if by telling it he could sell tons of toys and merchandise, so much the better for him and the fans.
On the other hand, the ST wasn't made to just sell toys... it was made to sell "experiences": a theme park, transmedia stories (not trans as in gender, but as in transitioning from one media to others, i.e. books, comics, movies, series), apparel and all this while bringing in a new set of fans: girls/women. Which, incidentally, was the story they wanted to tell about female empowerment. Which is fine IMHO, but it seems that was the only thing "they had something to say about", and unfortunately, they didn't do it very well.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

As I just posted.. I am curious how much the toy collector / ebay flippers had to do with the failure also.. You could go into any collctor shop back then and see overpriced figures from the PT that nobody bought because everyone could get one. They were all over. George pushed merchandise hard.

But even then I remember way more TPM and AOTC toys then I do ROTS.. I think the even by then the demand for figures had gone down a bit.

I didn't see that push for the TFA and that was pretty much loved by everyone except the smart people like me [emoji38]

But I think with competition from MARVEL plus no big push in merch plus all the collectors being burned by the PT figures not going up in value = lack of sales.

Now I could be wrong.. I will admit I was not looking at toys around that time either. ​

Also I asked this before.. Do little girls even care about action figures overall? I mean...Even with the PT and OT I don't remember little girls having SW figures.

That may have been KKs biggest mistake in thinking that little girls would love SW as much as all the little boys did. Action figures and vehicles are mostly bought for little boys.. I never saw little girls in the action figure section.. And a lot of little boys wont play with a female action figure. I could be wrong but I don't ever see it happening.

To be fair, have you seen the aftermarket prices of HT Anakin and some of the other PT figures? Anakin(both versions) goes for $600-$700 nowadays.

Meanwhile I would have to take a bath to get rid of that stupid TFA Rey/BB8 set i stupidly bought. You see I didn't actually want to hate the ST, unfortunately that's just the way it turned out.

 

[JAWS]

The manner the OT characters, mythos, and story were portrayed and altered in the ST was absolutely despicable. It's still beyond me how you could claim to be an OT fan and be OK with that garbage.

I guess I was with you at one point.. I hated what they did to Han in TFA. I was calling him Deadbeat dad also.. I hated his death and thought it was just a waste. I hated the fact there was a first order... I mean how would out hero's let another Empire rise..

Leia.. Well she was tuff to watch mostly because Fisher is tuff to watch

Also.. after watching his dull performance in ROTJ its a blast to see Ford actually try again. I prefer him in TFA way more then ROTJ. ​

I did not hate with what they did with Luke. Again I think a lot of that has to do with his performance. He sold it and I had no issues with him turning from the Force.

But then I ended up enjoying TROS and because of that I rethought about how they handled the OT characters and how they had to split them up to have any sort of new empire come to pass. And in order to split them up it had to be something like the fall of the Child of Han and Leia and Luke had to be a big part of the reason of that fall.

I thought by having Kylo have his mother help him complete his path to salvation (something that started when he killed his father) and the conversation with Han in really helped bring the death of Han full circle.

 

[JAWS]

To be fair, have you seen the aftermarket prices of HT Anakin and some of the other PT figures? Anakin(both versions) goes for $600-$700 nowadays.

That's Hot Toys.. We are getting into big boy toys there. I was focusing more on the Action figure sales.

Hot toys and statues have a better chance at after market value because they are more limited and start off at an expensive price to begin with.

 

[JAWS]

I think that's both a bit harsh and misguided...

Clearly Lucas always had a nose for business and an understanding (visionary to say the least) of the role of merchandise/toys in the blockbuster era, but it's just as clear that he had a story to tell, something to say about "the hero's journey", politics, religion, rebelling against the system, etc... There was always a great story to tell about Luke, Anakin, Ben, Obi Wan, the Emperor, Palpatine... and if by telling it he could sell tons of toys and merchandise, so much the better for him and the fans.
On the other hand, the ST wasn't made to just sell toys... it was made to sell "experiences": a theme park, transmedia stories (not trans as in gender, but as in transitioning from one media to others, i.e. books, comics, movies, series), apparel and all this while bringing in a new set of fans: girls/women. Which, incidentally, was the story they wanted to tell about female empowerment. Which is fine IMHO, but it seems that was the only thing "they had something to say about", and unfortunately, they didn't do it very well.

When I say made to sell toys.. its because George filled his movies with all these different very imaginative looking characters and made toys out of them.. All the different ships were all new ships..

I should have said.. The PT were made to sell toys. Meaning the fact that George has such a huge imagination that there are plenty of toys to make.

The ST really did not have that. It was a different version of X-wing fighters, Tie Fighters, and no really unusual looking alien characters to buy and own.

They tried with Phasma but that was it.. And what a failure she was.

 

[jal76]

I think that's both a bit harsh and misguided...

Clearly Lucas always had a nose for business and an understanding (visionary to say the least) of the role of merchandise/toys in the blockbuster era, but it's just as clear that he had a story to tell, something to say about "the hero's journey", politics, religion, rebelling against the system, etc... There was always a great story to tell about Luke, Anakin, Ben, Obi Wan, the Emperor, Palpatine... and if by telling it he could sell tons of toys and merchandise, so much the better for him and the fans.
On the other hand, the ST wasn't made to just sell toys... it was made to sell "experiences": a theme park, transmedia stories (not trans as in gender, but as in transitioning from one media to others, i.e. books, comics, movies, series), apparel and all this while bringing in a new set of fans: girls/women. Which, incidentally, was the story they wanted to tell about female empowerment. Which is fine IMHO, but it seems that was the only thing "they had something to say about", and unfortunately, they didn't do it very well.

You are correct. Lucas DID NOT make the OT to sell toys. This is not accurate. His reasons were well documented from missing out on the rights to Flash Gordon to wanted to create an American fairy tale for kids...it?s all out there so no reason for me to bore anyone. Making toys was not it and that has never been previously claimed by...anyone until tonight. Lucas was shrewd and realized that there was potential to expand his profits beyond box office ticket sales, but if anything he actually took the opposite track and actually made the merchandise to promote the movies versus Disney making movies to promote the merchandise. JAWS typically offers a good perspective but sorry, way off base and mistaken on that one.

 

[jye4ever]

You are correct. Lucas DID NOT make the OT to sell toys. This is not accurate. His reasons were well documented from missing out on the rights to Flash Gordon to wanted to create an American fairy tale for kids...it?s all out there so no reason for me to bore anyone. Making toys was not it and that has never been previously claimed by...anyone until tonight. Lucas was shrewd and realized that there was potential to expand his profits beyond box office ticket sales, but if anything he actually took the opposite track and actually made the merchandise to promote the movies versus Disney making movies to promote the merchandise. JAWS typically offers a good perspective but sorry, way off base and mistaken on that one.

You are not even 100% wrong you are 101% wrong lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JAWS]

You are correct. Lucas DID NOT make the OT to sell toys. This is not accurate. His reasons were well documented from missing out on the rights to Flash Gordon to wanted to create an American fairy tale for kids...it?s all out there so no reason for me to bore anyone. Making toys was not it and that has never been previously claimed by...anyone until tonight. Lucas was shrewd and realized that there was potential to expand his profits beyond box office ticket sales, but if anything he actually took the opposite track and actually made the merchandise to promote the movies versus Disney making movies to promote the merchandise. JAWS typically offers a good perspective but sorry, way off base and mistaken on that one.

I was talkin about PT not OT..

I think OT was a happy mistake with regards to toy sales.. At least with ANH.. Nobody saw that coming.

PT.. I think we all know that George was well aware of how to use his imagination to his advantage..


Having said that his imagination is perfect for making toys.


So again I was not talking about the OT



As for the ST being made just for toys.. I just don't see it as much.. They may have wanted to but they went about it all wrong. They were not going out of their way to make completely different aliens and characters all the time and new ships.. Not the way George did.. Again that was one of my main complaints about the ST. They lacked Georges imagination for World Building.

They also bet on the wrong gender to buy up these toys.

 

[jal76]

You are not even 100% wrong you are 101% wrong lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah...well you?re not even 102% wrong about me being 101% wrong your?e 103% wrong about me being 101% wrong.