Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

The only way i can see someone liking rots more than a new hope is if they are really into special effects and alot of action. Honestly new hope Is leagues better in terms of story and dialog but its more of a slow burner then sith, which throws you directly into the middle of a fight at the start and never lets up until the ending 45 minute duel lol. If you take out the padme bacony scene and insert a proper ?storming of the jedi academy scene (eg seeing anakin actual fight and kill jedi not just kids offscreen) it would have been better.

Part of Siths problem is that atoc failed to setup anakins decent into darkness properly, For example, had atoc actually showed anakin fighting in the war and becoming more and more jaded because of it and being confused by the jedi acting as soldiers willing to a fight a war that goes against the original code of being peace keepers not an army that chooses sides (Esp when sith arent invoved, or at least they dont think sith are involved). Due to this inner conflict anakin loses his faith goes from taking prisoners to slaughtering them on site. His decent wouldnt have felt so abrupt in sith, would have allowed for a much better story arc. But aroc failed to setup anakins fall properly and much like rise gl was forced to put too much story in sith that never properly showed anakins decline- it all felt rushed which is why his fall was not believable- he basically made anakin look like a moron- palpa says i have the power to save the one you love. Litterall 2 seconds later he says if we work together we can unlock the power to save her. How dumb is anakin at that point? Id be like what ***** you just lied to me so i kill mace- he should have killed his ass right there- pala offered him nothing he wanted at that point- he turned to save padme all due to a palps lie, he gave up everything he cared about over this lie and dude admit he lied to his face that he cant help him save padme. Instead of killing his ass right there he just blindly follows him

 

[ironwez20]

True. Rots has lots of flaws but I still find the film told well. Now I know it?s not better than the OT movies but for me it is only cause I a huge fan of man falling from grace type movies. My second fav is empire.

 

[ironwez20]

Reys theme is up there with the best from the series I really enjoy it quite alot.


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I don?t even remember what her theme was

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I don?t even remember what her theme was

"Luke was an evil loser who never accomplished anything meaningful, but watch a 90 pound brunette woman do it better"

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Rey couldnt even lift an xwing out of the water she needed help from a st new wave force ghost that has the ultimate power to interact with the living force.. If it wasnt for ghost luke rey would still be sitting on that rock and the emperor would have won. Ghost luke is the true hero of the story. The only reason rey had to win and force ghost luke didnt show up at the end to whip the emperors ass is cause the force is female and kk is ****ing nuts. The whole st was nuts Lol.

If your going to make jedi force ghost all powerful but then you dont have them show up to kick some ass at the end or atleast help then you make them look like ****ing ******* that dont care about the cause. Only rey cares not anakin not luke not leia not qui gon or yoda. They all a bunch of force ghost *******s that created a mess then ran from it when they could easily kick clone emperors ass with all thier ghostly power.... but no they just sit back and watch. **** you kk. This was the point of the st to **** on all our childhood heroes. FORce ghost cannot interfere with the living force once you make that possible You ****ed everything- where were those jedi force ghost cowards

Some people say maybe the island had special powers, ok fine then use rey as bait to lure ren and palps to come to you. You got your army of jedi force ghost Just waiting to whoop some ass- but they didnt do that so even that doesnt jive. It was just another way to explicitly **** on past star wars legends and prop rey up as the ultimate hero in the galaxy/skywalker saga

This is why it so hard for me to understand ot purist that like tros it just deviates way too much from star wars lore and goes out of its way to **** on the OT characters. The pt is bad because of stupid slapstick humor, dialog and wasted screen time but it never shat on the ot like this. Sure vader was a whiney ***** before he put on the mask but luke was whiney ***** in new hope but that didnt ruin the movie for people. Yes part 1 and 2 are really bad atleast george tried to respect the ot even with his outlandish changes in continuity he never attacked the characters, the st on the other hand is an assault against old star wars. Tros is not as in your face about ******** on the ot characters as tlj but it still accomplishes the same goal in a more subtle way.

Our only hope is if they retcon all of this and we get proper sequel trilogy while mh and hf are still alive. It would be easy to explain it as elseworlds with all the crazy force powers and all powerful force ghosts. Ah makes sense it wasnt real, it happened in some alternate reality where all the rules were changed inexplicably. Anikan didnt kill the emperor (or he didnt die when he fell to his obvious death) and luke was jake skywaker and han was a deadbeat an leia smoked too many cigs. And lastly the emperor didnt want luke to kill vader so he could replace him at his side no he wanted luke to kill him so he could consume his body and be one with him yet he still allowed vader to block lukes attack while he was sitting on the throne. I ****ing hate the st

 

[The Buffinator]

Rey couldnt even lift an xwing out of the water she needed help from a st new wave force ghost that has the ultimate power to interact with the living force.. If it wasnt for ghost luke rey would still be sitting on that rock and the emperor would have won. Ghost luke is the true hero of the story. The only reason rey had to win and force ghost luke didnt show up at the end to whip the emperors ass is cause the force is female and kk is ****ing nuts. The whole st was nuts Lol.

If your going to make jedi force ghost all powerful but then you dont have them show up to kick some ass at the end or atleast help then you make them look like ****ing ******* that dont care about the cause. Only rey cares not anakin not luke not leia not qui gon or yoda. They all a bunch of force ghost *******s that created a mess then ran from it when they could easily kick clone emperors ass with all thier ghostly power.... but no they just sit back and watch. **** you kk. This was the point of the st to **** on all our childhood heroes. FORce ghost cannot interfere with the living force once you make that possible You ****ed everything- where were those jedi force ghost cowards

Some people say maybe the island had special powers, ok fine then use rey as bait to lure ren and palps to come to you. You got your army of jedi force ghost Just waiting to whoop some ass- but they didnt do that so even that doesnt jive. It was just another way to explicitly **** on past star wars legends and prop rey up as the ultimate hero in the galaxy/skywalker saga

This is why it so hard for me to understand ot purist that like tros it just deviates way too much from star wars lore and goes out of its way to **** on the OT characters. The pt is bad because of stupid slapstick humor, dialog and wasted screen time but it never shat on the ot like this. Sure vader was a whiney ***** before he put on the mask but luke was whiney ***** in new hope but that didnt ruin the movie for people. Yes the movies are bad but the st is an attack on old star wars. Tros is not as in your face about ******** on the ot characters as tlj but it still accomplishes the same goal in a more subtle way.

Respectfully I have to disagree. First of all, Rey had already demonstrated that she could stop a ship in mid-air, so just because Force Ghost Luke lifted the X-Wing out of the water doesn't mean she couldn't have done so as well. Secondly, I don't see how Ghost Luke's knowing how to do this ****s on the OT Jedi characters. IMO it's quite the opposite - in TLJ Luke was shown to be the first Jedi to do force projection, so his tapping into new Force Ghost abilities further demonstrates that he was special. Or maybe he just learned how from Yoda, Qui-Gonn & Ben after he died in TLJ. Just because he was the first Force Ghost to be seen doing it doesn't mean the others couldn't have done so as well. As for not having an army of Jedi Force Ghosts show up on Exegol, there were no more Sith wayfinders lying about, so they probably didn't know where to project their spectral bodies.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Respectfully I have to disagree. First of all, Rey had already demonstrated that she could stop a ship in mid-air, so just because Force Ghost Luke lifted the X-Wing out of the water doesn't mean she couldn't have done so as well. Secondly, I don't see how Ghost Luke's knowing how to do this ****s on the OT Jedi characters. IMO it's quite the opposite - in TLJ Luke was shown to be the first Jedi to do force projection, so his tapping into new Force Ghost abilities further demonstrates that he was special. Or maybe he just learned how from Yoda, Qui-Gonn & Ben after he died in TLJ. Just because he was the first Force Ghost to be seen doing it doesn't mean the others couldn't have done so as well. As for not having an army of Jedi Force Ghosts show up on Exegol, there were no more Sith wayfinders lying about, so they probably didn't know where to project their spectral bodies.

Force ghost cannot interfere with the living force by interfer i mean interact with the living realm physically touch objects. They can speak to living and appear in front of them but they cannot physically interact with them. Thats not how the force works. Once they die they become part of the cosmic force and our bound to the cosmic realm. Thats the power quigon taught yoda, how to appear and commune with the living force from the cosmic realm not interact with it physically- they wouldnt be ghost then or there be no limit to thier power and all jedi should want to die because in death they can do anything but thats not how it works except in the st elseworld trilogy that just made up its own rules in order to kill the past.

This is a huge change in established lore, an equivalent change for example would be instead of kryptonite making supes weaker it made him stronger. Think how big of a **** obi wan was when luke was hanging from that satellite in cloud city as he is pleading with him for help (or even after the wampa attack) and he just ignores him even though he could help him. But he couldnt help him physically which is why he didnt help. Ben was quite clear with luke i cannot interfere you will confront vader alone, because he knew he couldnt physically help luke in the realm of the living force, all he could do is commune (Talk) with him. That would be of no use during his fight with vader

But i do agree wonder rey could have lifted the xwing too, i was being sarcastic. My point was by showing the audience that force ghost luke had the power to physically interact with the living world and then Having him not offer to help rey fight the emperor and Ren (rey still thought ren was bad at this point) and excluding him (no his few words of encouragement dont count after showing he could do way more then that) from the final fight the message to the audience is that luke is still that same coward sitting on a rock that rj created he’s just a little more transparent looking. Its just another tear down of lukes character in order to build up Rey. Poor ghost Luke stuck on that rock for all eternity in the elseworlds st, atleast he can still drink the green milk from the local creatures using his super ghost powers that allow him to basically do anything he wants- except be the hero of the story- in the realm of the living.

 

[JAWS]

Force ghost cannot interfere with the living force by interfer i mean interact with the living realm physically touch objects. They can speak to living and appear in front of them but they cannot physically interact with them. Thats not how the force works. Once they die they become part of the cosmic force and our bound to the cosmic realm. Thats the power quigon taught yoda, how to appear and commune with the living force from the cosmic realm not interact with it physically- they wouldnt be ghost then or there be no limit to thier power and all jedi should want to die because in death they can do anything but thats not how it works except in the st elseworld trilogy that just made up its own rules in order to kill the past.

This is a huge change in established lore, an equivalent change for example would be instead of kryptonite making supes weaker it made him stronger. Think how big of a **** obi wan was when luke was hanging from that satellite in cloud city as he is pleading with him for help (or even after the wampa attack) and he just ignores him even though he could help him. But he couldnt help him physically which is why he didnt help. Ben was quite clear with luke i cannot interfere you will confront vader alone, because he knew he couldnt physically help luke in the realm of the living force, all he could do is commune (Talk) with him. That would be of no use during his fight with vader

But i do agree wonder rey could have lifted the xwing too, i was being sarcastic. My point was by showing the audience that force ghost luke had the power to physically interact with the living world and then Having him not offer to help rey fight the emperor and Ren (rey still thought ren was bad at this point) and excluding him (no his few words of encouragement dont count after showing he could do way more then that) from the final fight the message to the audience is that luke is still that same coward sitting on a rock that rj created he’s just a little more transparent looking. Its just another tear down of lukes character in order to build up Rey. Poor ghost Luke stuck on that rock for all eternity in the elseworlds st, atleast he can still drink the green milk from the local creatures using his super ghost powers that allow him to basically do anything he wants- except be the hero of the story- in the realm of the living.

My head canon is staying with the fact that we only see these ghost force powers on the Jedi Island.

So I am also cool with Obi Wan just telling another lie. "I will become more powerful then you can possibly imagine" My ass

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

My head canon is staying with the fact that we only see these ghost force powers on the Jedi Island.

So I am also cool with Obi Wan just telling another lie. "I will become more powerful then you can possibly imagine" My ass

Lol it will start to bother you the more you watch it. The head canon will weaken the more you think about it. I was actually surprised more people werent pissed off about how badly they broke canon with force ghost. It started with yoda but tros took it even further. Why did they even need to show force ghost luke catching the saber (breaking established canon and rules) or using the force to lift the xwing out of the water? It served no purpose to the story, he could have easily just told rey his old star fighter is in the ocean and used it as a call back moment where she has to lift it out. No they changed all that again to reinforce tlj arc, luke is that same coward from tlj and all past jedi are weak and cowards- Afraid to confront their fears even in death in order to elevate rey palpatine as the hero of the skywalker saga. **** you kk and your elseworlds st!!!.

Disney so dumb too, if palpatines son was a failed clone of himself how the **** isnt rey his daughter. Unless the dude ****ed some poor chick at some point it just dont make sense. Its his ****ing daughter not grandaughter. He just called a failed clone attempt his “son” but it was still all his dna, so rey is the direct biogical descendent of palps. The book says the exact same thing failed clone attempt he called his son but it was all his dna lol

 

[aussiebottt]

Oh my.. ROTS over ANH..

GTF outta here with that

What's wrong with that? ROTS is a great movie.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Lol it will start to bother you the more you watch it. The head canon will weaken the more you think about it. I was actually surprised more people werent pissed off about how badly they broke canon with force ghost. It started with yoda but tros took it even further. Why did they even need to show force ghost luke catching the saber (breaking established canon and rules) or using the force to lift the xwing out of the water? It served no purpose to the story, he could have easily just told rey his old star fighter is in the ocean and used it as a call back moment where she has to lift it out. No they changed all that again to reinforce tlj arc, luke is that same coward from tlj and all past jedi are weak and cowards- Afraid to confront their fears even in death in order to elevate rey palpatine as the hero of the skywalker saga. **** you kk and your elseworlds st!!!

What rules are you referring to? The first draft of ROTJ had the ghosts of Yoda and/or Kenobi blocking Palpatine's lightning to save Luke. If George Lucas never intended for Force ghosts to affect the living world by using the Force, he never would've put that in his first ROTJ draft.

And since that draft was written *after* Kenobi told Luke he couldn't help him in ESB, it's obvious that Kenobi meant that he would be abstaining from providing help. Not that he was incapable. We don't know what ethical rules or personal destinies need to be accounted for by these spirits.

But it's not just George's discarded ideas for ROTJ. It's also George and Dave Filoni explaining in TCW (which is very much in current canon) how Force ghost manifestation can be learned by a Jedi (what Qui-Gon had been studying, and Yoda and Obi-Wan ended up mastering). They use the Force after losing their physical selves in order to maintain a spiritual presence in the living world.

The Living Force that Qui-Gon tells Kenobi about in TPM is what surrounds all life in the galaxy. When a living entity dies, that energy in the Living Force returns to the Cosmic Force (which is like the SW version of God). What a Force ghost does is avoid that step by retaining that energy to continue interacting with the living.

In other words, a Force ghost is already using the Force just to show up and be seen by living beings, right? It's something the Sith can't do in current canon because it calls for drawing from the light side of the Force. So, I don't think it's a perversion of Lucas canon to have those Jedi ghosts using the Force in other ways. They basically cheated death by avoiding a return to the Cosmic Force. They truly are "more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

They cant interfere (eg interact) with the living force only commune with it. As an ot purist you should know this. No need for long posts i dont got time for the spin zone. Not trying to be rude but ive already explained everything about the original (OT/PT) force canon in my previous post.

 

[ajp4mgs]

They cant interfere (eg interact) with the living force only commune with it. As an ot purist you should know this. No need for long posts i dont got time for the spin zone. Not trying to be rude but ive already explained everything about the original (OT/PT) force canon in my previous post.

Well then I'll try to keep it short for you. George originally had Force ghosts interfering in ROTJ. George was directly involved in the rules established by ROTS and TCW. Watch the episode "Voices" from TCW if you don't want to read and believe my long posts.

 

[Asta]

"Luke was an evil loser who never accomplished anything meaningful, but watch a 90 pound brunette woman do it better"

I think I know the one you mean...

Nobody does it better
Makes me feel sad for the rest
Nobody does it half as good as you
Baby, you're the best

...

And nobody does it better
Though sometimes I wish someone could
Nobody does it quite the way you do
Why'd you have to be so good?

...

There's some kind of magic inside you

...

How'd you learn to do the things you do?

 

[jal76]

What rules are you referring to? The first draft of ROTJ had the ghosts of Yoda and/or Kenobi blocking Palpatine's lightning to save Luke. If George Lucas never intended for Force ghosts to affect the living world by using the Force, he never would've put that in his first ROTJ draft.

And since that draft was written *after* Kenobi "

First Drafts? Early drafts of Star Wars had Luke Skywalker being a woman and Darth Vader certainly being no one?s Father. Should we infer from that that Luke is in fact a woman and Vader was lying about being Luke?s Father because in early drafts he was not. It?s a little nonsensical to factor discarded ideas or changed story points into existing canon.

 

[ajp4mgs]

First Drafts? Early drafts of Star Wars had Luke Skywalker being a woman and Darth Vader certainly being no one?s Father. Should we infer from that that Luke is in fact a woman and Vader was lying about being Luke?s Father because in early drafts he was not. It?s a little nonsensical to factor discarded ideas or changed story points into existing canon.

My point about the ROTJ first draft is that it was written after Force ghosts started appearing in ESB. Kenobi's line about not interfering is often what's used to establish that "rule," but I would imagine that Lucas wouldn't write ghosts blocking lightning if he meant it as a rule in that way.

But fine, if you want to say original drafts say nothing about the rules, I can understand that. But how about factoring in the canon explanation for Force ghosts in the animated show? If they're using the Force to manifest spirits, then it puts in play their ability to use the Force in other ways.

I agree that it raises a bunch of questions, and causes all sorts of problems; but I'm just not seeing where rules were definitively established saying that there was never to be Force ghost interference. And I think the ROTJ first draft speaks to that. I really don't care enough to try any harder to convince anyone, though.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I think I know the one you mean...

They might as well have closed out the ST with that track after Rey declared herself "Rey Skywalker". Instead of regular credits it should have just been that song and a collection of photos on screen of Rey and Kathleen Kennedy goofing off in Galaxy's Edge.

 

[Asta]

They might as well have closed out the ST with that track after Rey declared herself "Rey Skywalker". Instead of regular credits it should have just been that song and a collection of photos on screen of Rey and Kathleen Kennedy goofing off in Galaxy's Edge.

 

[jye4ever]

Holy crap give the Rey mary sue a rest already its been 5 years since TFA and TROS fixed all of that anyways.

I swear the self proclaimed Alpha males need thicker skin you whine more than the ******* SJWs and they are already annoying as it is sheesh give it a rest already.

Like just for once can you try being what you claim you are supposed to be!

I mean KK has freaking thicker skin than you guys try being like her lol


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[JAWS]

Lol it will start to bother you the more you watch it. The head canon will weaken the more you think about it. I was actually surprised more people werent pissed off about how badly they broke canon with force ghost. It started with yoda but tros took it even further. Why did they even need to show force ghost luke catching the saber (breaking established canon and rules) or using the force to lift the xwing out of the water? It served no purpose to the story, he could have easily just told rey his old star fighter is in the ocean and used it as a call back moment where she has to lift it out. No they changed all that again to reinforce tlj arc, luke is that same coward from tlj and all past jedi are weak and cowards- Afraid to confront their fears even in death in order to elevate rey palpatine as the hero of the skywalker saga. **** you kk and your elseworlds st!!!.

But it really wont bother me.. Even though they interact.. It only happens on that island and it does not effect the plot of the movie..

Dont get me wrong.. I dont love it however.. It does kind of explain when Obi Wan says in ESB that he cant interfere.. Why even say that to Luke? Like Obi Wan did anything after his death other then whisper in his ear. IDK.. Its just not a big enough deal to me.


As for all the coward stuff.. I dont know what to say to you.. I just dont see it or feel the way you do.. Not one bit.

If you are going to say that then Why didnt Yoda just go with Luke and fight Vader on Bespin.. Guess Yoda was a coward also.

That last comment was brought up in a video I enjoyed which pretty much sums up my feeling about the issues in the SW Universe.

Starting at the 13:13 mark. https://youtu.be/J9F7_h4CAJM?t=793

This guy really helped me appreciate certain story elements of the PT also.. I tend to like his take on SW films even though I dont always agree.

Disney so dumb too, if palpatines son was a failed clone of himself how the **** isnt rey his daughter. Unless the dude ****ed some poor chick at some point it just dont make sense. Its his ****ing daughter not grandaughter. He just called a failed clone attempt his “son” but it was still all his dna, so rey is the direct biogical descendent of palps. The book says the exact same thing failed clone attempt he called his son but it was all his dna lol

Since its never established that Palps son is a clone in the movie I have no problem with stating he was not a clone and Palps knocked up some chick.. I always found that to be the weakest argument against the film when it first came out. "Who would **** the Emperor" Like a man in that place of power could not get his rocks off with either a willing or unwilling participant.

My point about the ROTJ first draft is that it was written after Force ghosts started appearing in ESB. Kenobi's line about not interfering is often what's used to establish that "rule," but I would imagine that Lucas wouldn't write ghosts blocking lightning if he meant it as a rule in that way.

But fine, if you want to say original drafts say nothing about the rules, I can understand that. But how about factoring in the canon explanation for Force ghosts in the animated show? If they're using the Force to manifest spirits, then it puts in play their ability to use the Force in other ways.

I agree that it raises a bunch of questions, and causes all sorts of problems; but I'm just not seeing where rules were definitively established saying that there was never to be Force ghost interference. And I think the ROTJ first draft speaks to that. I really don't care enough to try any harder to convince anyone, though.

To me the rules are never explained. You have Obi Wan saying "I will become more powerful then you can Possibly imagine" (Which I notice nobody is answering what that means) he states to Luke he cant interfere like there might be an expectation that he ever could in any other situation. Everyone else that becomes one with the force is the age they are when they died but not Anakin (with Lucas revision crap)

Having said this.. I was not a fan of Yoda using Force lightning, or Luke catching Sabers.. BUT since it all happens on that Jedi island I can accept it... I also use to figure that the Jedi ghost cant screw around with "destiny" They have to allow the living to pave the way.