Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Lucas literally stated point blank that Yoda never fights anybody and that he wouldn't be any good if he did.

There are deleted scenes from ESB where Luke is swinging his lightsaber while Yoda is on his back because that was all Yoda was ever supposed to do with regard to combat: instruct. Not demonstrate. Not fight.

I agree with what your saying but i think thats cause they couldnt film the puppet with the saber and so he just was making up rationale for it. Otherwise he never would have yoda swinging one in the pt as soon as the technology became available. PM yoda still a puppet no saber atoc cgi saber i dont think its a coincidence

 

[Khev]

I agree with what your saying but i think thats cause they couldnt film the puppet with the saber and so he just was making up rationale for it.

Except Lucas' own quote contradicts that notion. If it was truly a "technological limitation" then all George had to say was "yep he can totally spin around and kick ass with a lightsaber but since I don't know how to film that we'll just leave that part of the training off screen." But he said the literal opposite, to the point of *correcting* Kasdan's assumption that Yoda *could* fight with a saber if need be.

Sorry but it's just one of many lame PT retcons that George indulged in while trying to overhaul everything he could with cartoony CGI.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Except Lucas' own quote contradicts that notion. If it was truly a "technological limitation" then all George had to say was "yep he can totally spin around and kick ass with a lightsaber but since I don't know how to film that we'll just leave that part of the training off screen." But he said the literal opposite, to the point of *correcting* Kasdan's assumption that Yoda *could* fight with a saber if need be.

Sorry but it's just one of many lame PT retcons that George indulged in while trying to overhaul everything he could with cartoony CGI.

But if he couldnt film it he wouldnt say that young GL is the same person as old gl you act like they are different people lol. Yes people change as they age but not as much as your implying with gl. He was giving a rationale for what yoda could do back in 1982 but we saw what he really thought of yoda once the technology became available

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

At some point we will see baby yoda twirling around with a saber too. Pretty much bank on it

 

[Khev]

But if he couldnt film it he wouldnt say that young GL is the same person as old gl you act like they are different people lol. Yes people change as they age but not as much as your implying with gl. He was giving a rationale for what yoda could do back in 1982 but we saw what he really thought of yoda once the technology became available

Oh good lord listen to yourself. Jabba not appearing in ANH was due to a filmmaking (or rather budgetary) limitation. Wampas not rampaging through Echo Base was a filmmaking limitation. George has openly stated as much. But for Yoda alone he's going to openly lie simply because you say so?

And young George being no different than old George.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Oh good lord listen to yourself. Jabba not appearing in ANH was due to a filmmaking (or rather budgetary) limitation. Wampas not rampaging through Echo Base was a filmmaking limitation. George has openly stated as much. But for Yoda alone he's going to openly lie simply because you say so?

And young George being no different than old George.

What im saying is your picking and choosing what aspects of gl world you accept as real. Its all from gl so its all real whether you like it or not. I never said i liked his revised editons but if he could add cgi yoda into the ot without it being jaring as **** he would have because thats how he always envisioned yoda

 

[jal76]

Except Lucas' own quote contradicts that notion. If it was truly a "technological limitation" then all George had to say was "yep he can totally spin around and kick ass with a lightsaber but since I don't know how to film that we'll just leave that part of the training off screen." But he said the literal opposite, to the point of *correcting* Kasdan's assumption that Yoda *could* fight with a saber if need be.

Sorry but it's just one of many lame PT retcons that George indulged in while trying to overhaul everything he could with cartoony CGI.

I do not think that there has ever been a writer or director that contradicts themselves as much as George Lucas does. Case in point...he said that Yoda would be no good in a fight against Vader and then demonstrates otherwise throughout the PT and even Clone Wars for that matter. The list of Lucas self-contradictions is so deep and pervasive that I have found that it is pointless to infer anything from what he says and to really only go by whatever is shown on the screen.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Ya gl says alot of **** but the common complaint from him was technological limitations while filming the OT, its the only reason the hated special editions exist. Its also probably why he went overboard with the pt, he didnt want to look back and feel like he did not take advantage of all the advancements in cgi

 

[Sachiel]

I'm so glad that the ST moved the thematic nature of the Force and those who can wield it to be more in line with the OT than the PT.

Rey just closed her eyes once and then is able to to anything and everything, no sweat. Seems like she has a VERY high Midichlorian count! Oh right, she's also Palpatine's granddaughter.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Rey just closed her eyes once and then is able to to anything and everything. Seems like she has a VERY high Midichlorian count!

Wonder rey is ok but yoda wielding a saber isnt lol. Insta force godess mode, i cant wait for the video game ill never die and rule all enemies at level 1

 

[ajp4mgs]

The only reason we didnt see yoda training luke with a lightsaber was because they used practical effects for yoda and the lightsaber scenes, they were difficult and expensive to film. If george made them today i guarantee you?d see yoda training luke with a lightsaber. I always thought it was implied he taught him especially since he had it with him and yoda said you do not need your weapon when luke entered the cave. I cant imagine how they would have shown puppet yoda swinging a saber without the use of cgi, it has nothing to do with these story elements your imagining. Its good read but it was simply a limitation of filming at the time there is no hidden meaning to it.

Just read how Lucas regarded Yoda as described in that conversation that Khev posted. Not a warrior, not a fighter - not someone who'd use a lightsaber in combat. Therefore, not someone who would grab a lightsaber to teach a student like Luke how to fight with one. Yoda was the spiritual mentor to open Luke up to what the Force could offer him, not be a combat trainer.

To be clear, I know that Lucas was saying in ROTJ that Kenobi and Yoda had been training Luke to kill Vader. My *personal revision* that I posted (and defined as such) is nothing more than my own attempt to make better sense of what Yoda (in particular) would actually be trying to accomplish with Luke. It's just for my own better enjoyment of the saga because it makes everything more coherent for me; I'm not pretending it's what Lucas intended in terms of plotting ROTJ.

What im saying is your picking and choosing what aspects of gl world you accept as real. Its all from gl so its all real whether you like it or not. I never said i liked his revised editons but if he could add cgi yoda into the ot without it being jaring as **** he would have because thats how he always envisioned yoda

How can you say that Lucas "always envisioned" Yoda being a lightsaber-wielding Jedi warrior when Khev posted Lucas in his own words from the early 80's saying something completely different? Why wouldn't Yoda not having a lightsaber in ESB have more to do with how Lucas conceived his character than it would with technical limitations in filmmaking?

Yoda was a spiritual guru. A lightsaber wouldn't make sense for him. And that's not just based on how Lucas described him in the early 80's, that's based on Yoda's actual dialogue and characterization in ESB. The PT Yoda is so entirely inconsistent with his ESB portrayal that I can't even imagine how anyone could think otherwise.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Just read how Lucas regarded Yoda as described in that conversation that Khev posted. Not a warrior, not a fighter - not someone who'd use a lightsaber in combat. Therefore, not someone who would grab a lightsaber to teach a student like Luke how to fight with one. Yoda was the spiritual mentor to open Luke up to what the Force could offer him, not be a combat trainer.

To be clear, I know that Lucas was saying in ROTJ that Kenobi and Yoda had been training Luke to kill Vader. My *personal revision* that I posted (and defined as such) is nothing more than my own attempt to make better sense of what Yoda (in particular) would actually be trying to accomplish with Luke. It's just for my own better enjoyment of the saga because it makes everything more coherent for me; I'm not pretending it's what Lucas intended in terms of plotting ROTJ.



How can you say that Lucas "always envisioned" Yoda being a lightsaber-wielding Jedi warrior when Khev posted Lucas in his own words from the early 80's saying something completely different? Why wouldn't Yoda not having a lightsaber in ESB have more to do with how Lucas conceived his character than it would with technical limitations in filmmaking?

Yoda was a spiritual guru. A lightsaber wouldn't make sense for him. And that's not just based on how Lucas described him in the early 80's, that's based on Yoda's actual dialogue and characterization in ESB. The PT Yoda is so entirely inconsistent with his ESB portrayal that I can't even imagine how anyone could think otherwise.

Honestly im not saying anything as fact its my assumption. You guys can believe what you want, but it is a fact that lucas was very limited in what he could do with puppet yoda in empire, so he wrote the character around these limitations

 

[jye4ever]

Hamill just recently said that he trained for ESB with the same intensity and speed that was choreographed for TPM and during filming while using that fast saber style GL stepped in and made them redo the entire fight again because Jedi would never fight that fast because the saber was meant to be a 2 handed heavy weapon.


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[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Hamill just recently said that he trained for ESB with the same intensity and speed that was choreographed for TPM and during filming while using that fast saber style GL stepped in and made them redo the entire fight again because Jedi would never fight that fast because the saber was meant to be a 2 handed heavy weapon.


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That makes sense because in the ot they rarely used one hand on the saber, it was almost always 2 handed. The one time i recall any of them using 1 hand on the saber is when Luke did in empire when he was on his back and vader had his saber in his face, he used a 1 handed swipe to get away and up. Lightsabers were supposed to be really heavy to wield which is why only the select few can wield them as weapons. Maybe he changed that causeit didnt make sense with them being able to use the force to move heavy object, but couldnt use the force to assist them in wielding the heavy saber 1 handed. In a new hope though when luke first ignites the saber he moves it around easily with one hand so who knows what gl intended maybe he didnt even know, his ideas just evolved over time lol

 

[jal76]

Just read how Lucas regarded Yoda as described in that conversation that Khev posted. Not a warrior, not a fighter - not someone who'd use a lightsaber in combat. Therefore, not someone who would grab a lightsaber to teach a student like Luke how to fight with one. Yoda was the spiritual mentor to open Luke up to what the Force could offer him, not be a combat trainer.

To be clear, I know that Lucas was saying in ROTJ that Kenobi and Yoda had been training Luke to kill Vader. My *personal revision* that I posted (and defined as such) is nothing more than my own attempt to make better sense of what Yoda (in particular) would actually be trying to accomplish with Luke. It's just for my own better enjoyment of the saga because it makes everything more coherent for me; I'm not pretending it's what Lucas intended in terms of plotting ROTJ.



How can you say that Lucas "always envisioned" Yoda being a lightsaber-wielding Jedi warrior when Khev posted Lucas in his own words from the early 80's saying something completely different? Why wouldn't Yoda not having a lightsaber in ESB have more to do with how Lucas conceived his character than it would with technical limitations in filmmaking?

Yoda was a spiritual guru. A lightsaber wouldn't make sense for him. And that's not just based on how Lucas described him in the early 80's, that's based on Yoda's actual dialogue and characterization in ESB. The PT Yoda is so entirely inconsistent with his ESB portrayal that I can't even imagine how anyone could think otherwise.

Therein lies the fundamental flaw of Star Wars in general. The majority of its fans are forced to beat it into submission with head canon and choose to ignore other aspects of its storytelling just to be able to enjoy it. When all is said and done Star Wars, in spite of its tremendous impact on pop culture, in cinematic terms is a guilty pleasure at best. Especially when you consider that there have been 11 movies and the overwhelming consensus of the fans is that only 2...2 of the 11 were actually good. Maybe it deserves to be as marginalized and frankly DEAD as it has become thanks to the sequel trilogy. Other than 10 year old girls running around in Rey costumes I don?t think kids even care about it anymore at all...mine definitely do not.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Therein lies the fundamental flaw of Star Wars in general. The majority of its fans are forced to beat it into submission with head canon and choose to ignore other aspects of its storytelling just to be able to enjoy it. When all is said and done Star Wars, in spite of its tremendous impact on pop culture, in cinematic terms is a guilty pleasure at best. Especially when you consider that there have been 11 movies and the overwhelming consensus of the fans is that only 2...2 of the 11 were actually good. Maybe it deserves to be as marginalized and frankly DEAD as it has become thanks to the sequel trilogy. Other than 10 year old girls running around in Rey costumes I don?t think kids even care about it anymore at all...mine definitely do not.

If you take away the disney trash star wars isnt that bad people hate on jedi cause of the teddy bears but its not a bad film nothing like the ST garbage. Sith is also decent not great but not terrible so id actually say its 4 out of 6 with 2 being terrible. I cant say anything good about atoc, its just utter lucas garbage his worst film by far

Your right about kids not caring about the st. My son likes kylo ren and ben skywalker but thats about it he wont watch last jedi and only likes to watch a few scenes in rise, mainly the death star wreckage fight and the end. He just fast forward thru everything else. That to me is the biggest failure of the st kids dont even like the characters

 

[abake]

Going back to the Yoda ?Guru? thing, Inreally don?t see the contradiction: Lucas is Talking about old and wise ESB Yoda, so ir makes sense that he describes Yoda as a teacher/guru who doesn?t use a lightsaber (anymore). I don?t see Lucas saying ?Yoda was never a fighter, he never wielded a lightsaber?. He?s just saying that at the time of ESB Yoda doesn?t fight anymore.
My point is: nothing in that interview (at least the part posted) makes a lightsaber-wielding, twirling dervish, butt-kicking Yoda a contradiction in the PT.
As for the ?heavy weapon?, AFAICR most of the actual fighting in the PT is done two-handed.


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[jal76]

If you take away the disney trash star wars isnt that bad people hate on jedi cause of the teddy bears but its not a bad film nothing like the ST garbage. Sith is also decent not great but not terrible so id actually say its 4 out of 6 with 2 being terrible. I cant say anything good about atoc, its just utter lucas garbage his worst film by far

Oh I agree with you...I am actually a big ROTJ fan...but I think the majority of fans really see it as two movies that they love...maybe 2 more that they tolerate...and seven that they think are trash...and those are the FANS. The awful sequel trilogy, that non fans essentially dismissed after checking out TFA out of curiosity, really feels like the final nail in the coffin. They actually built a Star Wars theme park and no one showed up??!!?? Sadly the MCU is to the modern era what Star Wars used to be.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Going back to the Yoda ?Guru? thing, Inreally don?t see the contradiction: Lucas is Talking about old and wise ESB Yoda, so ir makes sense that he describes Yoda as a teacher/guru who doesn?t use a lightsaber (anymore). I don?t see Lucas saying ?Yoda was never a fighter, he never wielded a lightsaber?. He?s just saying that at the time of ESB Yoda doesn?t fight anymore.
My point is: nothing in that interview (at least the part posted) makes a lightsaber-wielding, twirling dervish, butt-kicking Yoda a contradiction in the PT.
As for the ?heavy weapon?, AFAICR most of the actual fighting in the PT is done two-handed.


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Exactly, alot of things can be accomplished in a 900 year lifespan. These guys are talking about an 890+ year old yoda as if thats all he could do when he was young. Do you guys think he always used a cane too, young buck yoda with walking stick

 

[ajp4mgs]

Going back to the Yoda ?Guru? thing, Inreally don?t see the contradiction: Lucas is Talking about old and wise ESB Yoda, so ir makes sense that he describes Yoda as a teacher/guru who doesn?t use a lightsaber (anymore). I don?t see Lucas saying ?Yoda was never a fighter, he never wielded a lightsaber?. He?s just saying that at the time of ESB Yoda doesn?t fight anymore.
My point is: nothing in that interview (at least the part posted) makes a lightsaber-wielding, twirling dervish, butt-kicking Yoda a contradiction in the PT.
As for the ?heavy weapon?, AFAICR most of the actual fighting in the PT is done two-handed.


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Exactly, alot of things can be accomplished in a 900 year lifespan. These guys are talking about an 890+ year old yoda as if thats all he could do when he was young. Do you guys think he always used a cane too, young buck yoda with walking stick

The "old and wise ESB Yoda" was 900 years old in the OT. He was a lightsaber-wielding, twirling dirvish in ROTS set roughly 20 years before the OT . . . when he was a ripe young 880.

According to Yoda in ESB, he had been teaching Jedi students for 800 years! That was his role. When you combine that with his dialogue in response to Luke saying he was looking for a great warrior, and then his lesson that "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack," I think it's a pretty clear picture that onscreen ESB Yoda matched Lucas' description in that 1981 conversation with Kasdan and Marquand.

In that conversation, Lucas says Yoda is "not a real Jedi." To me, it's pretty clear that he doesn't just mean that Yoda got too old for Jedi combat. He's a teacher; a guru. For 800 years! When people I know saw Yoda bust out a lightsaber in AOTC, the reaction was basically, "WTF!?"