Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

The "old and wise ESB Yoda" was 900 years old in the OT. He was a lightsaber-wielding, twirling dirvish in ROTS set roughly 20 years before the OT . . . when he was a ripe young 880.

According to Yoda in ESB, he had been teaching Jedi students for 800 years! That was his role. When you combine that with his dialogue in response to Luke saying he was looking for a great warrior, and then his lesson that "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack," I think it's a pretty clear picture that onscreen ESB Yoda matched Lucas' description in that 1981 conversation with Kasdan and Marquand.

In that conversation, Lucas says Yoda is "not a real Jedi." To me, it's pretty clear that he doesn't just mean that Yoda got too old for Jedi combat. He's a teacher; a guru. For 800 years! When people I know saw Yoda bust out a lightsaber in AOTC, the reaction was basically, "WTF!?"

Well it was written that way by his creator if you dont like yoda thats fine. You cant pick and choose aspects you like and say thats the only real yoda. Also in the book its explained he has to use up alot of force power to move like that at that age, which is why you see him with a cane when he isnt fighting in both atoc and sith. Moroever his race ages differently so its possible as they grow closer to death they weaken at an accelerated rate, since they age so slowly to begin with. Mando eleborates a bit more on this all i remember is baby yoda is actually 50 years old

 

[ajp4mgs]

Well it was written that way by his creator if you dont like yoda thats fine. You cant pick and choose aspects you like and say thats the only real yoda. Also in the book its explained he has to use up alot of force power to move like that at that age, which is why you see him with a cane when he isnt fighting in both atoc and sith. Moroever his race ages differently so its possible as they grow closer to death they weaken at an accelerated rate, since they age so slowly to begin with. Mando eleborates a bit more on this all i remember is baby yoda is actually 50 years old

Dude, I accept whatever George puts on screen whether I like it or not. But Yoda using a lightsaber, especially the way he did, was inconsistent.

The same way that Leia remembering her real mother was inconsistent.

The same way that Kenobi . . . and Owen . . . and Vader couldn't recognize the droids was inconsistent.

The same way that Kenobi forgetting that "there is another" was inconsistent (and that inconsistency dates back to ROTJ).

Just because it got released in a PT movie, and George made it, doesn't mean it makes sense with what came before. He changed things from how they were originally conceptualized on more than one occasion. I'm okay with it because it's his story, not mine, and I'm a fan of the overall world he created. But I'd prefer if everything had flowed more consistently. That would be better, IMO. It's that simple.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

It didnt bother me at all seeing yoda wielding a lightsaber thats not what ruined the pt lol. I always assumed yoda was near death (eg really old in empire) most old people cant do the same stuff they could do when they were younger. The only problem with pt yoda is he went from older looking puppet (Wierd looking btw) to younger cgi looking in atoc, outside of that i see no problems with yodas arc. Unless you consider RJs lightning shooting force ghost yoda as part of it, now thats consistency issues. The st has no clue what force ghosts are its very obvious. They can shoot lightning catch lightsabers, use the force to raise xwings.. if they can interact with the real world it would seem to me dying makes them even more powerful.. makes me wonder why force ghost luke didnt take on the emperor himself. What did he even need wonder Rey Palps for? Funny thing is that would been a better ending-force ghost luke vs cloned palps after he had just killed rey and ben for the final fight. Skywalker vs palpatine with force ghost luke, a skywalker, ending him for good like it should have been

 

[jye4ever]

The "old and wise ESB Yoda" was 900 years old in the OT. He was a lightsaber-wielding, twirling dirvish in ROTS set roughly 20 years before the OT . . . when he was a ripe young 880.

According to Yoda in ESB, he had been teaching Jedi students for 800 years! That was his role. When you combine that with his dialogue in response to Luke saying he was looking for a great warrior, and then his lesson that "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack," I think it's a pretty clear picture that onscreen ESB Yoda matched Lucas' description in that 1981 conversation with Kasdan and Marquand.

In that conversation, Lucas says Yoda is "not a real Jedi." To me, it's pretty clear that he doesn't just mean that Yoda got too old for Jedi combat. He's a teacher; a guru. For 800 years! When people I know saw Yoda bust out a lightsaber in AOTC, the reaction was basically, "WTF!?"

Skywalker Kush must think the ESB Yoda dagobah training previz looks like this:

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[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Heck ya that little green freak wields a mean nunchuck. Maybe baby yoda will wield nunchuck sabers, id pay to see that. The destruction he would cause lol

 

[JAWS]

Except Lucas' own quote contradicts that notion. If it was truly a "technological limitation" then all George had to say was "yep he can totally spin around and kick ass with a lightsaber but since I don't know how to film that we'll just leave that part of the training off screen." But he said the literal opposite, to the point of *correcting* Kasdan's assumption that Yoda *could* fight with a saber if need be.

Sorry but it's just one of many lame PT retcons that George indulged in while trying to overhaul everything he could with cartoony CGI.

We discussed this before oh so many pages ago so I wont quote all of Khev's post.. But yep.. Lucas had a much different vision for Yoda.. A vision I much prefer. I hate frog hoping, light saber twirling Yoda.. Might as well had him flying battle ships also.

 

[JAWS]

The st has no clue what force ghosts are its very obvious. They can shoot lightning catch lightsabers, use the force to raise xwings.. if they can interact with the real world it would seem to me dying makes them even more powerful..

"You cant win Darth... If you strike me down I will become more powerful then you can possibly imagine"

It seems the ST tried not to make a liar out of Old Ben


In all seriousness.. Not a fan of Force lightning from ghosts.. But all of the "special" force ghost stuff was done on that Jedi island.. So maybe there is something to that.

Anakin coming back as Young Anakin is majorly stupid also. I mean everyone else gets screwed in the afterlife... George should not have been aloud to touch the OT.

 

[JAWS]

If you take away the disney trash star wars isnt that bad people hate on jedi cause of the teddy bears but its not a bad film nothing like the ST garbage. Sith is also decent not great but not terrible so id actually say its 4 out of 6 with 2 being terrible. I cant say anything good about atoc, its just utter lucas garbage his worst film by far

Ya see.. I just dont get it.. Like whatever you want but dont pretend that ROTS is a well made movie.. Its got major issues that the other two PT have. I can understand why some might like the darker tone.. But it is nowhere near the quality of ANH and ESB

Many pages ago after going on my SW marathon I expressed my frustration with ROTJ.. What Harrison Ford and the filmmakers did to Han in that film was worse then anything the ST did.. The film makers made him a worthless buffoon and Harrison slept walked through the role.. When I followed Jedi up with TFA I could not get over what a joy it was to watch Harrison care again. Carrie Fisher was awful in ROTJ also.. The Ewoks were better actors then Ford and Fisher. Hamill was decent.. Jabba is great and the Final space battle, Luke beating Vader and Vader's redemption are all classic SW moments that help cover up a pretty boring and poorly directed film.. Man if only Kershner came back.. Maybe the characters would have been more interesting.

As I have said many times. Other then the first two films I basically tolerate all SW because its SW but I am not blind to the fact that the PT is poorly directed / acted / awful dialogue / and some bad ideas. I am not blind to the fact that the ST as an overall trilogy is poorly planed / written / with some bad ideas. I pick and choose what I like and I tolerate them. Same goes for Jedi.

I also Tolerate RO and Solo.. RO being the better of the two but not with out character issues. Solo is a bit of a mess all over.. But I tolerate it.

Why.. Because its SW.. I love the universe. I love the characters and the lore.. I love the idea of the force and of a good and dark side. I love Lightsaber and the sound they make.. I love the entire sound design of SW period.. The ships the costumes and the overall stories from each trilogy as much as they may have stumbled and fell.

As much as I love them.. I am not going to say that the if not for Disney - SW would not be "that bad"

I guess percentage wise you would be right. 2 great films to 5 very flawed films instead of 2 great films to 8 very flawed films.


But the PT is fun trash that I and all of you only revisit because its SW and I have no problem admitting that the only reason I will return to watch the ST is because its fun trash that happens to be SW.


I went through a span where I was not as tolerant of SW. After TLJ I was convinced that there would never be anymore good SW films in the Skywalker saga.. It was basically 5 strikes in a row.. I would still watch them because.. Well its SW.. But I would watch them with a more heavy heart... But I happened to enjoy TROS and it was that film that reminded me that its ok to sit back and enjoy SW.. Even when its got some issues.


I know I will never change anyone's mind about TROS.. Thats ok.. I enjoy SW overall again and tolerate the bad and try and focus on whats good.


However I will admit that is very hard to do with AOTC and TLJ

 

[jye4ever]

Ya see.. I just dont get it.. Like whatever you want but dont pretend that ROTS is a well made movie.. Its got major issues that the other two PT have. I can understand why some might like the darker tone.. But it is nowhere near the quality of ANH and ESB

Many pages ago after going on my SW marathon I expressed my frustration with ROTJ.. What Harrison Ford and the filmmakers did to Han in that film was worse then anything the ST did.. The film makers made him a worthless buffoon and Harrison slept walked through the role.. When I followed Jedi up with TFA I could not get over what a joy it was to watch Harrison care again. Carrie Fisher was awful in ROTJ also.. The Ewoks were better actors then Ford and Fisher. Hamill was decent.. Jabba is great and the Final space battle, Luke beating Vader and Vader's redemption are all classic SW moments that help cover up a pretty boring and poorly directed film.. Man if only Kershner came back.. Maybe the characters would have been more interesting.

As I have said many times. Other then the first two films I basically tolerate all SW because its SW but I am not blind to the fact that the PT is poorly directed / acted / awful dialogue / and some bad ideas. I am not blind to the fact that the ST as an overall trilogy is poorly planed / written / with some bad ideas. I pick and choose what I like and I tolerate them. Same goes for Jedi.

I also Tolerate RO and Solo.. RO being the better of the two but not with out character issues. Solo is a bit of a mess all over.. But I tolerate it.

Why.. Because its SW.. I love the universe. I love the characters and the lore.. I love the idea of the force and of a good and dark side. I love Lightsaber and the sound they make.. I love the entire sound design of SW period.. The ships the costumes and the overall stories from each trilogy as much as they may have stumbled and fell.

As much as I love them.. I am not going to say that the if not for Disney - SW would not be "that bad"

I guess percentage wise you would be right. 2 great films to 5 very flawed films instead of 2 great films to 8 very flawed films.


But the PT is fun trash that I and all of you only revisit because its SW and I have no problem admitting that the only reason I will return to watch the ST is because its fun trash that happens to be SW.


I went through a span where I was not as tolerant of SW. After TLJ I was convinced that there would never be anymore good SW films in the Skywalker saga.. It was basically 5 strikes in a row.. I would still watch them because.. Well its SW.. But I would watch them with a more heavy heart... But I happened to enjoy TROS and it was that film that reminded me that its ok to sit back and enjoy SW.. Even when its got some issues.


I know I will never change anyone's mind about TROS.. Thats ok.. I enjoy SW overall again and tolerate the bad and try and focus on whats good.


However I will admit that is very hard to do with AOTC and TLJ

Great post....again!

You have been killing it.

I find the ST to have the best visual and audio representation of a lightsaber.

Very chunky and vibrant it is the pod racing equivalent of lightsabers I love it lol


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[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Both sith and rise have the benefit of following up two of the worst movies in the franchise. Ill gladly admit sith gets a pass from me mainly because i was so relieved it wasnt as bad as the atrocious atoc (That **** was pure cringe made me uncomfortable watching it in the theater) or phantom menace before it. It was bittersweet though because i knew deep down (and still to this day see its flaws) its not a good movie but i still enjoy it today as popcorn fun. Atleast it has some replay value for me whereas the first 2 dont, the duel of fates is the only redeemable part of that 4 hour story arc from pm thru atoc. Like you though i really love the world of star wars so i do try to give the movies a pass. When i first saw tros in the theater i was so relived it wasnt another tlj ****fest, that i came out of the theater convincing myself i actually liked it. Well that went away quick when i saw the 2nd time in the theater, i fell asleep. It wasnt any better the third time on 4k i had the urge to fast forward thru most of it. Maybe some of your enjoyment of tros is just due to it not sucking as bad as tlj lol, in either case it is not a good star wars movie

 

[JAWS]

Both sith and rise have the benefit of following up two of the worst movies in the franchise. Ill gladly admit sith gets a pass from me mainly because i was so relieved it wasnt as bad as the atrocious atoc (That **** was pure cringe made me uncomfortable watching it in the theater) or phantom menace before it. It was bittersweet though because i knew deep down (and still to this day see its flaws) its not a good movie but i still enjoy it today as popcorn fun. Atleast it has some replay value for me whereas the first 2 dont, the duel of fates is the only redeemable part of that 4 hour story arc from pm thru atoc. Like you though i really love the world of star wars so i do try to give the movies a pass. When i first saw tros in the theater i was so relived it wasnt another tlj ****fest, that i came out of the theater convincing myself i actually liked it. Well that went away quick when i saw the 2nd time in the theater, i fell asleep. It wasnt any better the third time on 4k i had the urge to fast forward thru most of it. Maybe some of your enjoyment of tros is just due to it not sucking as bad as tlj lol, in either case it is not a good star wars movie

I think we are both very much on the same page (Except that I think TROS is a pretty good SW movie).. My expectations could not have been lower for TROS. It was the SW film that had a lot of First for me. First time I never got caught up in the hype. First time that I did not go to a midnight showing when I could have, first time I was not all the excited to even go.. So yeah.. Without question I was taken by surprise.. I know that some of it was just utter shock that I was loving it as much as I did.. But boy was I a kid again..

Whats funny is that I almost fell asleep the 2nd time also but I was really tired. But watching it on home video I find myself enjoying it fully except for all the stuff on the desert planet until Kylo shows up.

The PT was a strange experience for me.. I forced myself to like TPM. I enjoyed AOTC the first time because no Jar Jar and a more serious tone and I really enjoyed ROTS with my first viewing. It was the replay value that hurt those films for me.. Even though I saw its flaws the first time I had issues with them after that.

We are also different in that I actually like TPM the most out of the PT. It just feels the most like classic SW to me and whenever I watch it it takes me back to just how awesome it felt to have a new SW movie coming out.. Also there is the pod race and the Duel of the fates.. I also like Anakins space battle also.

My last viewing of all the films in 4k was probably the most I have enjoyed the PT in years and I really enjoyed TFA and of course TROS.

So I am going to continue to try and ride this SW high that I have been feeling.

Too bad you fell out of love / like with TROS. Thats a bummer.

 

[JAWS]

Great post....again!

You have been killing it.

I find the ST to have the best visual and audio representation of a lightsaber.

Very chunky and vibrant it is the pod racing equivalent of lightsabers I love it lol


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I loved the sound of the Sabers in TROS.. I dont recall them as much in the other two. Though I seem to remember thinking they sounded cool in TFA on 4k last time I watched it. I like the sound of the Saber duel in TPM also..

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Duel of fates is Pm’s crowning achievement, i tired hard to force myself to like PM, but there is just too much unredeemable stuff in it- from gungans, to the terribly staged battles, the stupid one liners “Always a bigger fish”, MIDICHLORIAN nonsense, endless political jargon and wasted screen time. Basically any scenes with the kid and jarjar or gungans or dumb battle droids or politicians talking nonsense. It seemed like everytime they killed the bad guys in that movie is was due to some convenient accident all based around stupid slap stick humor, whether it be jar accident knocking over bombs that take out a bunch of tanks, to the bigger fish, to the kid accidently shooting things in the starfighter like “did i do that” and corney forced “yippie lines. My son loves the pod race so ive been forced to watch it over and over but luckily he isnt interested in the rest of it other than the duel of fates or the first encounter between maul and quigon so we skip the rest

 

[aussiebottt]

Ya see.. I just dont get it.. Like whatever you want but dont pretend that ROTS is a well made movie.. Its got major issues that the other two PT have. I can understand why some might like the darker tone.. But it is nowhere near the quality of ANH and ESB

That is purely your opinion only. Yes I do think ROTS is well made. I put in on par with ANH.
I could say the same to you about TROS - don't pretend it's a well made movie.

 

[JAWS]

Duel of fates is Pm’s crowning achievement, i tired hard to force myself to like PM, but there is just too much unredeemable stuff in it- from gungans, to the terribly staged battles, the stupid one liners “Always a bigger fish”, MIDICHLORIAN nonsense, endless political jargon and wasted screen time. Basically any scenes with the kid and jarjar or gungans or dumb battle droids or politicians talking nonsense. My son loves the pod race so ive been forced to watch it over and over but luckily he isnt interested in the rest of it other than the duel of fates or the first encounter between maul and quigon so we skip the rest

I cant disagree with any of that But I dont hate it anymore. Jar Jar does not bother me at all. He did back in the day.. But now.. Nope. I think some of that has to do with TCW series and the episodes hes in.. I actually found him funny in those

Jake Loyd is not a string actor but he does not really bother me. Never has.

I always hated the Gungan battle. I might hate the Ewok battle more.. IDK

Without question though.. TPM is a nostalgia film for me 100%. Takes me right back to that time.. And that was a pretty great time leading up to that film.

 

[ironwez20]

I know you three hate ROTS cause your nostalgia won?t allow you to like it but surely you must admit the music is absolutely amazing. I mean the music alone just gives the movie more life. No other Star Wars movie came close to that score since.

 

[aussiebottt]

I know you three hate ROTS cause your nostalgia won?t allow you to like it but surely you must admit the music is absolutely amazing. I mean the music alone just gives the movie more life. No other Star Wars movie came close to that score since.

You're wasting your time buddy. The 3 ST apologists have poor taste in films so it's likely they have poor taste in music too. Well Khev and Jaws that is. Jye just likes whatever they tell him to.

 

[jye4ever]

You're wasting your time buddy. The 3 ST apologists have poor taste in films so it's likely they have poor taste in music too. Well Khev and Jaws that is. Jye just likes whatever they tell him to.

Says the person who rates ROTS over ANH lol

But Wez is right of course ROTS has great music.

Let me guess you also think:

Die Hard 5 > Die Hard 1

KOTCS > Raiders

Jaws 3 > Jaws 1

Predator reboot > Predator 1

Alien Resurrection > Aliens

TDKR > TDK

T2 > T1 (just messing with a-dev lol)






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[JAWS]

I know you three hate ROTS cause your nostalgia won?t allow you to like it but surely you must admit the music is absolutely amazing. I mean the music alone just gives the movie more life. No other Star Wars movie came close to that score since.

TPM is my Fav PT score. I don't care for the Score in AOTC. ROTS is OK. I really cant remember most of it accept the Battle of the Hero's theme and the Order 66 theme. The PT has a better score then the ST for sure. I do really like Rey's theme though.. I have come to like Kylo's theme but its a bit simple. Gotta be hard for JW to be as old as he is writing his 6th, 7th, and 9th score for the same series.

I don't hate ROTS.. But I think it failed to deliver on its promise. Big Time. I should love the movie from the time Anakin turns to the end.. And its actually my least fav part

You're wasting your time buddy. The 3 ST apologists have poor taste in films so it's likely they have poor taste in music too. Well Khev and Jaws that is. Jye just likes whatever they tell him to.

Brilliant post again.. Thanks for sharing.

Says the person who rates ROTS over ANH lol

But Wez is right of course ROTS has great music.

Let me guess you also think:

Die Hard 5 > Die Hard 1

KOTCS > Raiders

Jaws 3 > Jaws 1

Predator reboot > Predator 1

Alien Resurrection > Aliens

TDKR > TDK

T2 > T1 (just messing with a-dev lol)






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Oh my.. ROTS over ANH..

GTF outta here with that

 

[jye4ever]

TPM is my Fav PT score. I don't care for the Score in AOTC. ROTS is OK. I really cant remember most of it accept the Battle of the Hero's theme and the Order 66 theme. The PT has a better score then the ST for sure. I do really like Rey's theme though.. I have come to like Kylo's theme but its a bit simple. Gotta be hard for JW to be as old as he is writing his 6th, 7th, and 9th score for the same series.

I don't hate ROTS.. But I think it failed to deliver on its promise. Big Time. I should love the movie from the time Anakin turns to the end.. And its actually my least fav part





Brilliant post again.. Thanks for sharing.



Oh my.. ROTS over ANH..

GTF outta here with that

Reys theme is up there with the best from the series I really enjoy it quite alot.


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