Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Wait I think I am lost

What I mean ajp is just making a point that the OT films have plot holes also... I dont see that as tearing down.. But maybe I missed a part of the conversation somewhere

Read his last post he says the st is more how he envisioned star wars to be, i didnt say that he did lol.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Thank you.

As for "No Country" I've only seen it once, and to be completely honest, I think I missed the point.

At the time it came out, I had just moved back to Japan and I was living in a tiny room with no computer or cell phone. It was weird to be completely shut off from the world like that. I'd have to go to internet cafes and read up on stuff a few times a week. And I remember everyone going on and on about how amazing "No Country" and "There Will Be Blood" were. Just gushing about these two masterpieces that everyone had to see.

Well, I finally got to see them about a year after they were released when I rented the DVDs. (Yes, this was a long time ago.)

I only watched each movie once, and with both, I was a bit baffled at what all the fuss was about. Both movies had these despicable characters and abrupt endings and I really didn't know what to make of them. I thought I must have missed something. It's been a long time though, so perhaps I should watch them again. I think reading all that hype gave me preconceived notions.

As for "Parasite," I just haven't watched it yet.

I do think there have been plenty of very GOOD or even GREAT movies over the last 15 years or so, but just not as many as there used to be. And I think it's fairly obvious why. The Hollywood system needs movies to be bigger and dumber and louder in order to appeal to broader audiences, especially overseas audiences.

I'm a huge Tarantino fan, so I try to see all his movies without reading any reviews or watching trailers. But I consider Tarantino his own thing...he almost doesn't count. His movies are so uniquely his that I can't really compare them to other movies. He's his own category. I thought "Basterds" was terribly disappointing after looking forward to it for such a long time, but that's one I've been meaning to rewatch. I loved "Django" and I think it's one his best. "Hateful Eight" was good....not great, but good. And "Once Upon a Time" was.....well.....I don't know what it was. It was almost like watching cinematic jazz....just freeform or something. I have the bluray and I'm definitely looking forward to a rewatch. I liked it....it was a good experience at the theater....but it was really just ODD, wasn't it?

Hmmm. I liked most of the super hero stuff on a superficial level but honestly, to me that's like the junk food equivalent of movies. I'm not above loving "junk" movies....two of my all time favorites are "Independence Day" and "Troy."

I'm just trying to think of movies I saw in the last decade or so that I really liked. "Gone Girl" was very well done. I liked "Ford vs Ferrari" but that was just a "good movie" not a masterpiece or anything. I watched "Uncut Gems" and that was almost an experimental movie with it's use of sound/music, but wasn't exactly an enjoyable movie.

I guess there's only been a few times I saw a movie where it was so good, I knew I was watching something truly amazing. "Pulp Fiction." "The Matrix." "Fight Club." "American Psycho." "Lord of the Rings." "Eternal Sunshine." I haven't felt that way in a long time.

Even stuff that was supposed to be "the next big thing" like Avatar was forgotten as soon as I left the theater. Whereas some movies are immortal for a reason. Right before the lockdown, I saw "Apocalypse Now Final Cut" in IMAX. That was months ago and I'm still thinking about how amazing certain scenes and shots were. Just picture Martin Sheen's head coming out of the water.....you can see it clear as day in your mind....just picture those helicopters coming in over that village while Wagner is blasting.....you getting goosebumps?

I'm now glad this thread went so off-topic. Another great read; thanks for the thoughtful response.

I asked about No Country because I had the opposite experience with it. That film grabbed me from the opening shots and the grip got tighter until the car crash at the end. And the end for me was a punctuation about the complete randomness of life that was touched on repeatedly throughout the story. It wasn't a particularly profound statement, but it hit me as if it were because of the time invested in a character that I found unique and original. His methods, badassery, persona, demeanor, and philosophy all led to a certain aura that gets wiped out by sheer innocuous randomness. I loved it. The scene with the store clerk and the coin is one of my favorites of all time.

Where I completely agree with your take is on the Tarantino films. Not only about them being so easily distinguishable, but your actual reaction to each film. I loved how Basterds started in the farmhouse, but then it took a complete Tarantino tone pivot that just didn't agree with me. Absolutely LOVED Django, but not so much the ending. Too hokey and "cool."

Great takes on a multitude of films, and thanks again for offering your point of view. I'll be on the lookout for a possible post from you someday regarding Parasite. I've got a feeling it's gonna be one of two extremes in terms of how you regard it. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would considering I detest the class warfare social commentary that he makes the focus of almost every one of his films. Parasite, though, was just way too bold and provocative for me not to appreciate it. Hope you find a way to enjoy it.

 

[JAWS]

They didnt mess with ot lore nearly as much as the st no matter how you spin it

Depends how you look at it.

I prefer Force Projections over Force made child.

I prefer dark force transfer of the spirit over the idea of midi-clorians

I like the idea of a Force Dyad over being taught how to be a Force Ghost.

Now don't get me wrong.. I hate force healing.. Really don't like it at all. I could accept that it was a power owned by only the dyad but that damn Baby Yoda can do it also.

Also not a fan of Force Lightning being used by Yoda.. I just have to believe those sort of things can only be done on the island.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Read his last post he says the st is more how he envisioned star wars to be, i didnt say that he did lol.

With all due respect, Kush, you missed my point. TLJ (not the ST in general) was in keeping with the themes and tone that I associated with SW growing up. I know it was different than how most people saw it, but what are you gonna do.

I'm not saying that I prefer anything about the ST over the OT. Please take note of that! I'm saying that I think *just TLJ* did a good job of honoring the themes (particularly how someone like a Jedi confronts conflict resolution, and how individual accountability is not to be discounted) of the OT.

I don't find the ST as a whole (after TROS) as any sort of hill worth me dying on. Just to be clear.

 

[Prime Clone]

He hates and loves TLJ as he loves and hates himself. He will never get rid of his need for it.

It was a pity Disney didn?t get ride of him when they had the chance. Or was it pity that stayed Disney?s hand

It still boggles my mind how TFA and RO were such micromanaged fan service while RJ was given free rein on TLJ. I still reckon it was the promise of a Broom Boy Trilogy cos LFL had no other ideas.

The st were better quality movies then the pt but they didnt have any character people cared about or resenated enough with them to want to own the character or even the movie itself.

Part of that is because the PT had more reason to exist - we cared more for the characters because we knew what they?d become.

The ST was a continuation for the sake of it, like Spaceballs 2: The Search For More Money.

 

[JAWS]

Read his last post he says the st is more how he envisioned star wars to be, i didnt say that he did lol.

I dont see him saying that its better or preferred over the OT.. He is saying that you hate TLJ and he does not.. That TLJ is more how he perceived SW when he was growing up

 

[JAWS]

Part of that is because the PT had more reason to exist - we cared more for the characters because we knew what they?d become.

The ST was a continuation for the sake of it, like Spaceballs 2: The Search For More Money.

This is true.

We all wanted to know the story of Vader's fall.

If the PT was not about characters and a lead up to a story we knew so well.. I am not sure if the characters would have resonated with anyone.

I was actually not sure how I felt about the ST when it was announced.. Even with the return of the main characters.. They were just too old IMO to be interesting heros.. I guess its why I like the direction they took with them.

 

[Otomofan]

I'm now glad this thread went so off-topic. Another great read; thanks for the thoughtful response.

I asked about No Country because I had the opposite experience with it. That film grabbed me from the opening shots and the grip got tighter until the car crash at the end. And the end for me was a punctuation about the complete randomness of life that was touched on repeatedly throughout the story. It wasn't a particularly profound statement, but it hit me as if it were because of the time invested in a character that I found unique and original. His methods, badassery, persona, demeanor, and philosophy all led to a certain aura that gets wiped out by sheer innocuous randomness. I loved it. The scene with the store clerk and the coin is one of my favorites of all time.

Where I completely agree with your take is on the Tarantino films. Not only about them being so easily distinguishable, but your actual reaction to each film. I loved how Basterds started in the farmhouse, but then it took a complete Tarantino tone pivot that just didn't agree with me. Absolutely LOVED Django, but not so much the ending. Too hokey and "cool."

Great takes on a multitude of films, and thanks again for offering your point of view. I'll be on the lookout for a possible post from you someday regarding Parasite. I've got a feeling it's gonna be one of two extremes in terms of how you regard it. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would considering I detest the class warfare social commentary that he makes the focus of almost every one of his films. Parasite, though, was just way too bold and provocative for me not to appreciate it. Hope you find a way to enjoy it.

Thank you again!

Oh, thought of one more....Boogie Nights. That was something really special and unique when it came out.

Another one that I didn't see in the theater but still haunts me is "The Fountain." There's a thread buried somewhere in this section on The Fountain. That movie frustrates the hell out of me cause it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense narratively, but viscerally it's got some of the most powerful scenes I've seen.

 

[jal76]

I'm now glad this thread went so off-topic. Another great read; thanks for the thoughtful response.

I asked about No Country because I had the opposite experience with it. That film grabbed me from the opening shots and the grip got tighter until the car crash at the end. And the end for me was a punctuation about the complete randomness of life that was touched on repeatedly throughout the story. It wasn't a particularly profound statement, but it hit me as if it were because of the time invested in a character that I found unique and original. His methods, badassery, persona, demeanor, and philosophy all led to a certain aura that gets wiped out by sheer innocuous randomness. I loved it. The scene with the store clerk and the coin is one of my favorites of all time.

Where I completely agree with your take is on the Tarantino films. Not only about them being so easily distinguishable, but your actual reaction to each film. I loved how Basterds started in the farmhouse, but then it took a complete Tarantino tone pivot that just didn't agree with me. Absolutely LOVED Django, but not so much the ending. Too hokey and "cool."

Great takes on a multitude of films, and thanks again for offering your point of view. I'll be on the lookout for a possible post from you someday regarding Parasite. I've got a feeling it's gonna be one of two extremes in terms of how you regard it. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would considering I detest the class warfare social commentary that he makes the focus of almost every one of his films. Parasite, though, was just way too bold and provocative for me not to appreciate it. Hope you find a way to enjoy it.

All of this is dead on accurate...I just rewatched No Country for Old Men last week and it gets better with each viewing. So many little details that pop up with each watch. Parasite is a prime example of how a movie need not have been around for a long time to be a masterpiece.

 

[JAWS]

Where I completely agree with your take is on the Tarantino films. Not only about them being so easily distinguishable, but your actual reaction to each film. I loved how Basterds started in the farmhouse, but then it took a complete Tarantino tone pivot that just didn't agree with me. Absolutely LOVED Django, but not so much the ending. Too hokey and "cool."

I have watched all QT films multiple times accept for 2.. Bastards and Once Upon a Time..

Its kinda funny because both films took real life subject matter and turned them into fantasy film endings.. And I just did not like it either time. Because of Bastards I saw it coming with Once upon a Time.

I am a huge fan of all his movies accept for the Kill Bill films.. They are just ok to me.

I also felt I was watching something truly special with Pulp Fiction.. I was already on board with QT because of RD. I went and saw PF in the theater and was just amazed.

The only recent film I have really loved and felt it was something special was Wind River. Had Harvey Weinstein not just been busted for being a perv I am convinced that would have got a best pic nomination.

 

[JAWS]

All of this is dead on accurate...I just rewatched No Country for Old Men last week and it gets better with each viewing. So many little details that pop up with each watch. Parasite is a prime example of how a movie need not have been around for a long time to be a masterpiece.

Nope got to give it more time... That way everyone can come around to my way of thinking and see Parasite as overrated

 

[jal76]

Thank you again!

Oh, thought of one more....Boogie Nights. That was something really special and unique when it came out.

Another one that I didn't see in the theater but still haunts me is "The Fountain." There's a thread buried somewhere in this section on The Fountain. That movie frustrates the hell out of me cause it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense narratively, but viscerally it's got some of the most powerful scenes I've seen.

Boogie Nights still holds my personal record for the film that I have seen most times in a movie theater. It?s a perfect film. The performances, the dynamic camera work, the soundtrack. Perfect!

 

[jal76]

Nope got to give it more time... That way everyone can come around to my way of thinking and see Parasite as overrated

Oh boy...not easy to do but you have actually rendered me speechless with that take.

 

[JAWS]

Oh, thought of one more....Boogie Nights. That was something really special and unique when it came out.

Interesting... I like Boogie Nights but it was just the Goodfella's but about Porn actors to me..

I liked it but did not think it was "something special"

Fun Fact... I worked in a group home for trouble youth and when I was not on shift one of the other staff members took 2 or 3 kids to that movie. "I didnt know what it was about" he said.. I said.. "Was there any time you figured out what it was about and maybe think it was a good time to leave"

 

[JAWS]

Oh boy...not easy to do but you have actually rendered me speechless with that take.

See my above post.

I thought it was well made.. But I have seen a lot of North Korean films and so I was not shocked when I apparently should have been. The film did not make me "feel" in any sort of way.. It just..... Is.

I have had debates with friends who love it and they talk about how they couldnt believe the turn the film made and what the film actually ended up being about..

I just say to them.. "I thought I Saw the Devil" was much better

 

[TheDucky]

Ok that explains why you listed off only 2, you caught me off guard cause a lot of those on the list are unanimously considered to be masterpieces. I intentionally included and eclectic list like this (from many different eras) cause at the very least we could get insight as to how different people define masterpieces.

1) If someone picks many of the older movies, one can infer there definition of masterpiece includes the following A )it must stand the test of time, still be relevant after many years, and still be just as enjoyable to watch as it was the day it was released. It still has a profound impact on you after many years.

2) Then there are purely technical movies like say Dr. Strangelove or 2001, that may not have lasting appeal in terms of replay ability in modern times, but the techniques employed had a lasting impact on the films (techniques) that resonate with you today.

3)Then there are others that don?t care about how old the movie is at all, or if it?s able to stand the test of time, it?s all about how it resonates with you in the here and now (and even 5 -10 years into the future), and how relevant the film is at capturing modern issues or making profound statements.

I am not suggesting either approach is right or wrong i just find it interesting-I myself probably fall somewhere between 1 and 3

Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. I'm probably right on that 3. I respect the advancements some of those older films made, so they probably are "masterpieces" for that alone, but damn do I struggle to watch those. Just not my thing. For a movie to be a "personal masterpiece" I have to like it and it has to be at a certain level of quality. Like ROTS, I love it, but I know it's not a masterpiece. Meanwhile TDK, I love it, tremendous film, it's a masterpiece. I don't need some passage of time to know that.

Lol who are you, where did you come from and why are you even in this conversation? grow up? I did grow up and I still think TLJ is crap and anyone who tries to site flaws in the OT to justify the crap that we saw in TLJ is utterly insane or they just didn't like the OT to begin with. Pretentious is thinking your own opinion of a crappy movie like TLJ even holds a candle to the OT, you actually think your opinion is correct- talk about delusions of grandeur and bloviated head, lol the only pretentious people here are the ones trying to justify TLJ at the expense of minor OT flaws. Give me a break

lol Awesome, the pacifier would actually work, if it was the ST id need a bottle filled with tequila so i'd pass out before the pain sets in

Yikes. Star Wars really makes people fight. Funny how this thread mutated into just a longe thread where people just talk about damn near anything except the forgetful movie it was based on. Lol

Telling, ain't it?

The pt was poorly executed but the character and lore resonated with people on a level no st character was able to do. The proof is in the toy sales and disk sales. The st were better quality movies then the pt but they didnt have any character people cared about or resenated enough with them to want to own the character or even the movie itself. People did not like the lore, the characters, the story anything enough to want to buy anything from it. Even the people that profess to like the st wont spend money on it to buy any collectibles let alone a limited collectors edition of the movies, yet the pt toys and movies sell out like hot cakes. The only explanation for this is people simply hate the st as star wars movie regardless if they were better films, they just werent better star wars films then the pt, but ill agree they were better executed movies but they had no likable characters and it shows

Yuuuuup. And that's why I fully expect the ST to be rebooted. Disney can milk the PT/OT for another 50 years of merch, easy. Disney couldn't even milk the ST for 5 years before it died out. They want a lasting trilogy.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

I have watched all QT films multiple times accept for 2.. Bastards and Once Upon a Time..

Its kinda funny because both films took real life subject matter and turned them into fantasy film endings.. And I just did not like it either time. Because of Bastards I saw it coming with Once upon a Time.

I am a huge fan of all his movies accept for the Kill Bill films.. They are just ok to me.

I also felt I was watching something truly special with Pulp Fiction.. I was already on board with QT because of RD. I went and saw PF in the theater and was just amazed.

The only recent film I have really loved and felt it was something special was Wind River. Had Harvey Weinstein not just been busted for being a perv I am convinced that would have got a best pic nomination.

The QT parts are spot on, the only thing i disagree with is your opinion of kill bill, its two parts but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Pulp fiction is a modern day masterpiece no doubt about it, QT at his best. Back in the 90s everything he touched turned to gold, true romance, natural born killers, reservoir dogs, pulp fiction, from dusk till dawn. Imo his only bad movies are four rooms and jackie brown but bad for qt is still better then most

 

[e30ernest]

I think *just TLJ* did a good job of honoring the themes (particularly how someone like a Jedi confronts conflict resolution, and how individual accountability is not to be discounted) of the OT.

I don't find the ST as a whole (after TROS) as any sort of hill worth me dying on. Just to be clear.

I kinda feel the same way about TLJ, and maybe it's why I don't dislike it as much as other fans do.

 

[Otomofan]

Boogie Nights still holds my personal record for the film that I have seen most times in a movie theater. It?s a perfect film. The performances, the dynamic camera work, the soundtrack. Perfect!

Oh yeah....the camera angles and zooms and stuff. And towards the end when it's more coke fueled the zooms and the editing just gets more frenetic. And Marky Mark singing "You got the touch!!" from Transformers the Movie.....and when he's explaining how the name Dirk Diggler came to him and how it's just so sharp it cuts glass....and that scene in the coke dealer's room when the Asian kid is setting off firecrackers and the tension is so thick you can't stand it......."MOTORINGG!!!" What an amazing scene. Amazing movie.

Tarantino's good at tension too. The scene that impressed me most in Once Upon was when Brad Pitt was exploring the ranch. Another of his classic long shots that just make you hold your breath wondering what's gonna happen.

 

[jal76]

Oh yeah....the camera angles and zooms and stuff. And towards the end when it's more coke fueled the zooms and the editing just gets more frenetic. And Marky Mark singing "You got the touch!!" from Transformers the Movie.....and when he's explaining how the name Dirk Diggler came to him and how it's just so sharp it cuts glass....and that scene in the coke dealer's room when the Asian kid is setting off firecrackers and the tension is so thick you can't stand it......."MOTORINGG!!!" What an amazing scene. Amazing movie.

Tarantino's good at tension too. The scene that impressed me most in Once Upon was when Brad Pitt was exploring the ranch. Another of his classic long shots that just make you hold your breath wondering what's gonna happen.

That scene in the mansion with the coke deal is one of the greatest scenes in any movie...you can actually feel what the characters are feeling...the tension, and almost queasiness. The musical choices...I always love the use of 99 Luftballons in that scene right before Todd gets shot.
Agreed as well about the Spahn Ranch scene in Once Upon a Time. Someone, I do not recall who, described it as the best Horror sequence of 2019...QT builds up a level of pure dread that you experience genuine anxiety while watching.