Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[punisher1974]

Not really...the difference between you and I is that my taste is discerning enough to recognize that both of those films are garbage...one pile just stinks a tiny bit less than the other...you actually think that one of those movies is good...so I really don?t know what to tell you what that says about your taste...

Taste is subjective. I don't think my taste in movies or any form of art is better than anyone else's but I do agree that the sequel trilogy and the prequel trilogy can't even come close to original trilogy overall. I love alot of classic movies but i also enjoy alot of more recent films. Entertainment is meant to be enjoyed. We all do it to varying degrees.

 

[jal76]

Speaking of Tarantino, I love most of his movies, but I think he's lost a bit of that edge his scripts used to have. The dialogues are not as sharp as they used to be.
I mean, compare the opening scene in Reservoir Dogs (or basically any scene from Pulp Fiction) to anything in Django or Hateful 8... there's just no comparison in how real the dialogue is. The problem I have with latter Tarantino films is that he takes these genres (Kill Bill - Hong Kong martial arts, Django/Hateful 8 - westerns, Inglorious Basterds - WWII) and makes these sort of satires. I enjoy them (except for Kill Bill, for some reason I really can't sit through those movies), but apart from Pulp Fiction I don't think his movies are masterpieces. Once Upon a Time however, was a return to form in terms of overall quality IMHO.

And since we're discussing great cinema in general, how about the great directors?

Some of my favourites:

- Coppola: For such a famous director, he really only has three indisputable masterpieces, doesn't he? Godfather I & II and Apocalypse Now. Although I must say that I absolutely love his Bram Stoker's Dracula (Keanu ad Winona's cringe-worthy acting notwithstanding). And there's also this odd little movie called Rumble Fish, really interesting, very low-budget, auteur type of deal.
- Scorsese: I suppose his only "bad" movie is New York New York, right? One of my favourite movies of his is often overlooked: After Hours. But can you say about a man who can master genres as diverse as Age of Innocence, Taxi Driver, Wolf of Wall Street, Shutter Island and The Last Temptation? The man is a genius.
- Kubrick: I don't think there's one of his movies that I find fault with. They are all so engrossing and so unique, it's always an amazing experience to sit down and watch them.
- Spielberg: he's got a few duds, but I think few (if any) directors have been able to move so well between blockbusters and "serious" cinema, and sometimes making both in one single movie!
- P.T. Anderson: although I couldn't really get into Phantom Thread, the man who made Boogie Nights, There Will Be Blood, Magnolia and Punch Drunk Love will always get a pass from me.
- The Coen Brothers: Raising Arizona, Fargo, The Big Lebowski, No Country For Old Men...
- Denis Villeneuve: Sicario, Arrival and Blade Runner have quickly established him as one of my favourite directors.
- Danny Boyle: Transporting (talk about influential), 28 Days Later, Slumdog Millionaire, all amazing films. And I know a lot of people hated it, but I thought The Beach was really good.
- Wes Anderson: the man really has a unique style, I love his movies, especially The Royal Tennenbaums, Rushmore and The Grand Budapest Hotel.
- David Fincher: I think some of his first movies, like Seven and Fight Club, must be among the most influential of the late 90's early 00's
- Christopher Nolan: a true visionary in my opinion, his movies are really "larger than life"... Inception, Dunkirk, Memento, Interstellar...
- Alejandro I??rritu: I can't say I'm a true fan of his movies, but they really are amazing.
- Ridley Scott: the man behind two of my most beloved films Alien and Blade Runner, but also the man behind Gladiator, Kingdom of Heaven, Black Hawk Down...

And I could go on and on...

Not to mention the old masters, Hitchcock, David Lean, John Boorman, John Huston, Sergio Leone, Polanski...

Your Director picks are on point...Coppola is frustrating because he could and should have made more great films but for some reason did not. He has four masterpieces because The Conversation definitely is one. Even more impressive is that he made The Conversation the same year that he made The Godfather II. So in 1974 2 of the 5 Best Picture Academy Awards were directed by Coppola. I agree that Dracula and Rumble Fish are underrated gems!
If you like Villeneuve you should check out Polytechnique if you have not already seen it. It is a pretty disturbing but amazing film.

 

[jal76]

Taste is subjective. I don't think my taste in movies or any form of art is better than anyone else's but I do agree that the sequel trilogy and the prequel trilogy can't even come close to original trilogy overall. I love alot of classic movies but i also enjoy alot of more recent films. Entertainment is meant to be enjoyed. We all do it to varying degrees.

Taste is definitely subjective but as I have said before film is both an art and a science so there is some objectivity involved. Everyone is welcome to like what they like. Regardless of anyone?s taste for example Citizen Kane is objectively a superior film to Biodome starring Pauly Shore.
If my 3 year old son does his best to write a play with what passes for writing from a 3 year old...I am going to love it but that does not mean that he is a better playwright than Tennessee Williams.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

TROS > ROTJ

And JAWS, a fellow OT fan since long before most of you were even born, also knows this to be true.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Speaking of Tarantino, I love most of his movies, but I think he's lost a bit of that edge his scripts used to have. The dialogues are not as sharp as they used to be.
I mean, compare the opening scene in Reservoir Dogs (or basically any scene from Pulp Fiction) to anything in Django or Hateful 8... there's just no comparison in how real the dialogue is. The problem I have with latter Tarantino films is that he takes these genres (Kill Bill - Hong Kong martial arts, Django/Hateful 8 - westerns, Inglorious Basterds - WWII) and makes these sort of satires. I enjoy them (except for Kill Bill, for some reason I really can't sit through those movies), but apart from Pulp Fiction I don't think his movies are masterpieces. Once Upon a Time however, was a return to form in terms of overall quality IMHO.

And since we're discussing great cinema in general, how about the great directors?

Some of my favourites:

- Coppola: For such a famous director, he really only has three indisputable masterpieces, doesn't he? Godfather I & II and Apocalypse Now. Although I must say that I absolutely love his Bram Stoker's Dracula (Keanu ad Winona's cringe-worthy acting notwithstanding). And there's also this odd little movie called Rumble Fish, really interesting, very low-budget, auteur type of deal.
- Scorsese: I suppose his only "bad" movie is New York New York, right? One of my favourite movies of his is often overlooked: After Hours. But can you say about a man who can master genres as diverse as Age of Innocence, Taxi Driver, Wolf of Wall Street, Shutter Island and The Last Temptation? The man is a genius.
- Kubrick: I don't think there's one of his movies that I find fault with. They are all so engrossing and so unique, it's always an amazing experience to sit down and watch them.
- Spielberg: he's got a few duds, but I think few (if any) directors have been able to move so well between blockbusters and "serious" cinema, and sometimes making both in one single movie!
- P.T. Anderson: although I couldn't really get into Phantom Thread, the man who made Boogie Nights, There Will Be Blood, Magnolia and Punch Drunk Love will always get a pass from me.
- The Coen Brothers: Raising Arizona, Fargo, The Big Lebowski, No Country For Old Men...
- Denis Villeneuve: Sicario, Arrival and Blade Runner have quickly established him as one of my favourite directors.
- Danny Boyle: Transporting (talk about influential), 28 Days Later, Slumdog Millionaire, all amazing films. And I know a lot of people hated it, but I thought The Beach was really good.
- Wes Anderson: the man really has a unique style, I love his movies, especially The Royal Tennenbaums, Rushmore and The Grand Budapest Hotel.
- David Fincher: I think some of his first movies, like Seven and Fight Club, must be among the most influential of the late 90's early 00's
- Christopher Nolan: a true visionary in my opinion, his movies are really "larger than life"... Inception, Dunkirk, Memento, Interstellar...
- Alejandro I??rritu: I can't say I'm a true fan of his movies, but they really are amazing.
- Ridley Scott: the man behind two of my most beloved films Alien and Blade Runner, but also the man behind Gladiator, Kingdom of Heaven, Black Hawk Down...

And I could go on and on...

Not to mention the old masters, Hitchcock, David Lean, John Boorman, John Huston, Sergio Leone, Polanski...

I know you mentioned QT above but you left him off the list was that intentional or are we supposed to infer you included him based on that first paragraph. I wouldnt knock hateful 8 or django for the dialog neither were meant to be edgy or realistic like his other movies, at least in terms of screen play it was more about the story. He was trying something different like he did with four rooms but the former movies worked way better. I really like django, its a great movie if its not a masterpiece its damn near close to it. Ill admit i did not like hateful 8 all that much but django is fantastic filmmaking. Some of that **** wouldnt fly right now esp the samuel jackson part but damn was it good

I would also consider adding old school Oliver stone, Clint Eastwood, james cameron, peter jackson, and Guillermo del Toro. Pretty much nailed it with everyone else though, good times for movie buffs well outside of covid

 

[jal76]

I know you mentioned QT above but you left him off the list was that intentional or are we supposed to infer you included him based on that first paragraph. I wouldnt knock hateful 8 or django for the dialog neither were meant to be edgy or realistic like his other movies, at least in terms of screen play it was more about the story. He was trying something different like he did with four rooms but the former movies worked way better. I really like django, its a great movie if its not a masterpiece its damn near close to it. Ill admit i did not like hateful 8 all that much but django is fantastic filmmaking. Some of that **** wouldnt fly right now esp the samuel jackson part but damn was it good

I would also consider adding old school Oliver stone, Clint Eastwood, james cameron, peter jackson, and Guillermo del Toro. Pretty much nailed it with everyone else though, good times for movie buffs well outside of covid

Django is a masterpiece! I disliked Hateful 8 on my first viewing...warmed up to it on my second...and then fell in love with it on my third. Whenever I hear that someone does not like it I point out that for me it is the ultimate example of a movie that needs to be seen multiple times before it grows on you and once it did it became a personal favorite.
I am glad that you drew the distinction between old school and current Oliver Stone. He used to be one of my all time favorites...but then he made Uturn and it never really made another good film again.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Django is a masterpiece! I disliked Hateful 8 on my first viewing...warmed up to it on my second...and then fell in love with it on my third. Whenever I hear that someone does not like it I point out that for me it is the ultimate example of a movie that needs to be seen multiple times before it grows on you and once it did it became a personal favorite.
I am glad that you drew the distinction between old school and current Oliver Stone. He used to be one of my all time favorites...but then he made Uturn and it never really made another good film again.

Ill have to give hateful 8 another look then, i only watched it once. I have high expectations for qt movies so my immediate reaction of being somewhat letdown probably soured the rest of the viewing experience. The best thing about u-turn was jennifer Lopez’s glorious ass. She was so hot back then, and dat ass man. I made damn sure i married a woman with an ass like that. Its not jlo but its big and beautiful. Sir mix-a-lot said it best “i like big butts and i can not lie”

 

[aussiebottt]

TROS > ROTJ

And JAWS, a fellow OT fan since long before most of you were even born, also knows this to be true.

What is wrong with you Khev??? First you say that Carrie Fisher put in an A+ performance and now you say TROS >ROTJ. Taste is subjective but I wonder if you can taste anything after that shocker.

 

[Otomofan]

Ill have to give hateful 8 another look then, i only watched it once. I have high expectations for qt movies so my immediate reaction of being somewhat letdown probably soured the rest of the viewing experience. The best thing about u-turn was jennifer Lopez’s glorious ass. She was so hot back then, and dat ass man. I made damn sure i married a woman with an ass like that. Its not jlo but its big and beautiful. Sir mix-a-lot said it best “i like big butts and i can not lie”

Out of Sight is also one of my favorite movies of the 90s.

 

[abake]

Your Director picks are on point...Coppola is frustrating because he could and should have made more great films but for some reason did not. He has four masterpieces because The Conversation definitely is one. Even more impressive is that he made The Conversation the same year that he made The Godfather II. So in 1974 2 of the 5 Best Picture Academy Awards were directed by Coppola. I agree that Dracula and Rumble Fish are underrated gems!
If you like Villeneuve you should check out Polytechnique if you have not already seen it. It is a pretty disturbing but amazing film.

Talking about disturbing, I can't believe I left out this man:

- David Cronenberg: Dead Ringers, The Fly, A History of Violence, Videodrome... man, he really weirded me out...

I know you mentioned QT above but you left him off the list was that intentional or are we supposed to infer you included him based on that first paragraph. I wouldnt knock hateful 8 or django for the dialog neither were meant to be edgy or realistic like his other movies, at least in terms of screen play it was more about the story. He was trying something different like he did with four rooms but the former movies worked way better. I really like django, its a great movie if its not a masterpiece its damn near close to it. Ill admit i did not like hateful 8 all that much but django is fantastic filmmaking. Some of that **** wouldnt fly right now esp the samuel jackson part but damn was it good

I would also consider adding old school Oliver stone, Clint Eastwood, james cameron, peter jackson, and Guillermo del Toro. Pretty much nailed it with everyone else though, good times for movie buffs well outside of covid

- Clint Eastwood: Unforgiven, Mystic River, Pale Rider, American Sniper, Letters from Iwo Jima... the man is a true legend!

Oliver Stone, well, I just hate his preachiness. The man is obviously talented, his movies are really good. I just intensely dislike how cheaply obvious he has to make his message (and I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of his positions). Natural Born Killers is amazing in its innovative approach, but it's so "in your face" that I just can't stand it. Compare that to Trainspotting, or compare Platoon to Apocalypse Now. I submit that both are far superior movies to Stone's.
James Cameron is another amazing filmmaker let down (for my personal tastes) by his stupidly obvious, in-your-face type of filmmaking. But the man did make the Sci-Fi/Action masterpiece: Aliens, there's no denying that.
Peter Jackson... sincerely, I think the man was a one trick pony. A hell of a pony, that being the LOTR trilogy (mostly The Fellowship of the Ring, they got progressively worse), but after that he had a fun ride with King Kong, but it also suffered from his tendency to be way too melodramatic and having his actors over-act every single scene. I didn't put George Lucas in the list, and Star Wars has probably better acting than most of the LOTR trilogy...
Del Toro... hmmm... no, I don't think he's really that good. Pan's Labyrinth is probably his best by far, but that's about it.

As for Tarantino, yeah, I should've put him there.

 

[ironwez20]

Now I?d argue that lotr is pretty much handled flawlessly. Love those films. I can?t believe I and so many others embraced those films. I had no idea about those books but the movies looked amazing

 

[JAWS]

TROS > ROTJ

And JAWS, a fellow OT fan since long before most of you were even born, also knows this to be true.

Jedi commits the greatest sin a SW movie can commit.. Its freaking boring.

Jedi is saved by a great space battle, Luke beating Vader using the dark side, some of the Jabba stuff, and Leia's slave outfit.

I use to include Vader's redemption but Lucas ruined that with Vader's "Noooooo", covering up the excellent force theme by Williams.. So I cant include that anymore. I can if I go back to the Original but why do I own it in 4K then? Freaking worse change then Greedo shooting first.. ****ing Lucas.

Nobody can complain about Han in the ST if they are fine with how he acted and was portrayed in ROTJ.

Scenes that are supposed to have emotional importance are handled so poorly.. Leia finding out Luke is her brother and Vader her father.. The whole scene just may be the worst thing in the entire saga. Well.... Some scenes in TLJ might be worse but its still awful.

Coked out Carrie cant act.

I dont even hate the ewoks as characters.. But every time they are on screen the movie comes to a halt.. Ruins the forest battle to be honest. Han and Leia should have been part of an Epic battle not a commercial for Toys. ****ing Lucas.

The speeder bike chase should still hold up but the use of blue screen in many of the scenes is almost as bad as Chris Reeves flying at the camera in Superman 4. I know the movie is older but SW and Empire still hold up... So Jedi should also.

Luke is a bore... But I am ok with that overall.

Anyone who complains about Rey swinging a saber like a baseball bat should watch the sail Barge fight again. Much worse.

Jedi will always hold a special place in my heart. I don't hate it.. But as movie making goes.. It's pretty bad.

Ha, and now you reveal that all your pretentious talk about your oh so discerning taste in film was just for show.

Even if he thinks he is comparing crap to crap.. You sort of lose if you think AOTC is a better film the TROS. No getting by that AOTC is a bottom feeder.

Still haven't seen Midsommar after reading the reviews from you and JAWS.

It's garbage really... Very pretentious which can be OK if you are telling a good story.. That film lacks that and the way characters behave in the film took me out of it.. I mean I get people act dumb in horror films.. but not that dumb.

Taste is subjective. I don't think my taste in movies or any form of art is better than anyone else's

Mine is

but I do agree that the sequel trilogy and the prequel trilogy can't even come close to original trilogy overall. I love alot of classic movies but i also enjoy alot of more recent films. Entertainment is meant to be enjoyed. We all do it to varying degrees

I think we all favor the OT. Well maybe not Aussiebottt I am not sure about him.. He rated one of the PT film higher then Empire so he might prefer the PT.

I know that even with the weak ass final chapter of the OT its is the far superior trilogy when compared with the stale / poorly acted PT and the confused / directionless ST.

Its kind of interesting how the SW films flow for me as a saga.. which is probably why I enjoy it as a whole more then many.

I really like TPM so the saga has a good beginning

I love SW and ESB so the saga has a great middle

I really like TROS so the saga has a good ending

I can find things to enjoy about the rest of the films.

So overall I am happy with the saga. I am one of the lucky ones I guess

 

[JAWS]

Now I?d argue that lotr is pretty much handled flawlessly. Love those films. I can?t believe I and so many others embraced those films. I had no idea about those books but the movies looked amazing

That series is the king of Fake out deaths

but I don't care I am a big fan..

I am not a huge fan of TTT. Its good but nowhere near the quality of the other two. I love FOTR and really love most of ROTK. I have some issues with it here and there but its still pretty great.

 

[JAWS]

Clint Eastwood: Unforgiven, Mystic River, Pale Rider, American Sniper, Letters from Iwo Jima... the man is a true legend!

Unforgiven is a damn near perfect movie.

Oliver Stone, well, I just hate his preachiness. The man is obviously talented, his movies are really good. I just intensely dislike how cheaply obvious he has to make his message (and I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of his positions). Natural Born Killers is amazing in its innovative approach, but it's so "in your face" that I just can't stand it.

I use to like NGK.. I just watched again.. First time in years.. I hated it

James Cameron is another amazing filmmaker let down (for my personal tastes) by his stupidly obvious, in-your-face type of filmmaking. But the man did make the Sci-Fi/Action masterpiece: Aliens, there's no denying that.

Cameron has two outstanding films to me.. T1 and Aliens.. I know many would put T2 on there also.. After that I think he is technically great but his films are average at best.

Peter Jackson... sincerely, I think the man was a one trick pony. A hell of a pony, that being the LOTR trilogy (mostly The Fellowship of the Ring, they got progressively worse), but after that he had a fun ride with King Kong, but it also suffered from his tendency to be way too melodramatic and having his actors over-act every single scene.

Having too much of a good thing is PJ's biggest problem.. It worked with LOTR. The Extended cuts were great also.. But no way Kong should be a 3 hour movie. No way The Hobbit should have been a trilogy.

Del Toro... hmmm... no, I don't think he's really that good. Pan's Labyrinth is probably his best by far, but that's about it.

I'm not really a fan either. Blade 2 and Crimson Peak are my two fav films by him. I HATED The Shape of Water.

 

[JAWS]

Django is a masterpiece! I disliked Hateful 8 on my first viewing...warmed up to it on my second...and then fell in love with it on my third. Whenever I hear that someone does not like it I point out that for me it is the ultimate example of a movie that needs to be seen multiple times before it grows on you and once it did it became a personal favorite.
I am glad that you drew the distinction between old school and current Oliver Stone. He used to be one of my all time favorites...but then he made Uturn and it never really made another good film again.

I loved Hateful 8 on my first viewing. It probably my 2nd or 3rd fav QT film..

John Carpenter's The Thing is one of my all time fav films so seeing the influence that film had on the Hateful 8 was fun.

 

[aussiebottt]

I think we all favor the OT. Well maybe not Aussiebottt I am not sure about him.. He rated one of the PT film higher then Empire so he might prefer the PT.

No I didn't. I rated ROTS on par with ANH. ESB is still the best movie in the saga and OT is the best trilogy.

 

[jye4ever]

No I didn't. I rated ROTS on par with ANH. ESB is still the best movie in the saga and OT is the best trilogy.

Ohhhh ok whew that makes it much better now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Khev]

I rated ROTS on par with ANH.

Good lord. This is why I don't engage sufferers of STSD who were in elementary school when the PT came out.

 

[JAWS]

No I didn't. I rated ROTS on par with ANH. ESB is still the best movie in the saga and OT is the best trilogy.

Ok.. I stand corrected.. I would not admit that part about ROTS being on par with ANH out loud though

Good lord. This is why I don't engage sufferers of STSD who were in elementary school when the PT came out.

Yeah, I am really curious how many PT or even just the ROTS fans here were elementary school when the PT came out.

I mean I would have freaking loved the PT when I was younger and probably continued to love it till I was much older.

I also might have a "ROTJ" moment and realize that the films I use to adore are pretty poorly made.

They are having the same reaction to the ST as us older guys did to the PT when they came out.. And I fully understand that. I had that same reaction to the ST also after the first two films Probably even worse then my PT moments.

But I do really like TROS. I hope that in 30 years I don't have a "ROTJ" moment

I think overall it wont go down that path fully because the acting is solid. If the acting in ROTJ was better then I would look at it much more favorably.

 

[JAWS]

For the record my feeling on ROTJ are Completely my own..

So please don't hold Jye and Khev responsible