Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Khev]

Can you prove to me that RJ did not have free reign to do anything he wanted with TLJ? It sure seems like he did. He even said that he shot the movie based on his first draft of the script. Zero changes, zero input from anyone else.

No. This is yet another endlessly repeated misnomer. In RJ's first draft he had Poe and Finn going to Canto Bight but didn't find their dynamic to be very interesting because their characters got along too well. So he created Rose to be a foil for Finn and Holdo to be a foil for Poe and split them up.

https://collider.com/the-last-jedi-poe-canto-bight-rian-johnson/

 

[ajp4mgs]

Can you prove to me that RJ did not have free reign to do anything he wanted with TLJ? It sure seems like he did. He even said that he shot the movie based on his first draft of the script. Zero changes, zero input from anyone else. Even when Trevorrow asked him to change it because of Carries' passing (so that nine could use a living actor, Mark Hamill, rather than try and salvage something from TFA cutting room floor material for Carrie) he flatly refused.

But yeh I'm sure it's because he was just keeping to the overall road map, that must be why he couldn't change course (even if 9 would have to change course anyway, such a Doomcock move if you ask me).

Oh boy. "Every time I think I'm out, they keep pulling me back in!" Okay here goes.

Unlike others (and unlike doomcock), I'll take the time to provide links in order to source what I say here. Filming of TLJ wrapped up in July of 2016 (check the link below if you don't believe me). Carrie Fisher died 5 months later, in December of that year. How in the world was Rian Johnson going to re-write a film after her death in December, when everything had been shot and finished by July?

https://ew.com/article/2016/07/22/star-wars-episode-8-wraps-filming-rian-johnson/

When Carrie died, they were already well into post-production, and the movie was ready for screening in September of 2017. You can read about that in the article below.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/star-wars-last-jedi-wrapped-production-early.html/

And as far as RJ shooting off of his first draft, what if I told you that production of TLJ was delayed because of script re-writes? Yeah, that's right: not only was it not based on a first draft, it was actually postponed due to a *re-wriiten* script. Don't believe me? Just read the article linked below.

https://movieweb.com/star-wars-8-script-rewrites-force-awakens-characters/

Also comparisons to the OT are hardly fair as Lucas did not know that he would get a sequel to Star Wars. He hoped he would but there was no guarantee but even so he had still mapped it out and 'Star Wars' was effectively the first act of the story he planned to tell (though plot points did of course change and develop from his original idea). With the ST they knew that it was going to be a trilogy from the get go and even if you subscribe to the notion that there was firm plan until Disney bottled it to appease the very minor but vocal TLJ backlash from some basement dwelling (sometimes racist) manbabies' certain point of view then are you not surprised with finality and closed ending of TLJ. What plot points were left dangling in front of the audience between movies to keep us interested?

How about that unresolved little matter of the First Order vs. the Resistance? Was that not the overarching plot of the sequels? TLJ not only left that in play, but put the Resistance in such a disadvantaged position as to necessitate something dramatic happening in the next movie.

How about the grandson of Anakin/Vader having ascended to the throne of a burgeoning empire?

How about "see ya around, kid" where Luke could now be "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" in his interactions with his nephew?

If you find none of this intriguing, that wouldn't surprise me. People who have disliked the ST from the start (or even just after TLJ) would obviously be less interested in the plot points left unresolved. If you don't like the FO because you think they represent a cheap copy of the Empire, you probably don't care about how the *main plot point* of the ST is going to resolve itself after the middle chapter. And if you don't like Kylo Ren as a character, you probably wouldn't care to know how he handles and resolves the lofty position of power that his grandfather had once sought. And if you don't like that Luke wasn't the main hero of this sequel trilogy, then you probably won't care what he might do as a ghost to patch up what went wrong as a result of failing to keep his nephew on the side of the light.

 

[ajp4mgs]

No. This is yet another endlessly repeated misnomer. In RJ's first draft he had Poe and Finn going to Canto Bight but didn't find their dynamic to be very interesting because their characters got along too well. So he created Rose to be a foil for Finn and Holdo to be a foil for Poe and split them up.

https://collider.com/the-last-jedi-poe-canto-bight-rian-johnson/

I hadn't seen this post when I typed mine, but yeah, even more proof. Thank you!

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Who cares if they had a plan the st was still a disjointed mess- If they had one it sure the hell didnt help them otherwise tros wouldnt have spent half the movie trying to retcon tlj, and tlj wouldnt have completely ignored the story arcs that were established in tfa, nor poked fun at it ?take of that childish mask?, killing snoke off, the destruction of hux, the rey luke saber handoff. All you have to do is look at the ending of tfa, when rey first hands luke the lightsaber, the look on his face was serious but then tlj starts and he takes the lightsaber and tosses it over his head like it was a joke as if that whole scene didnt happen in tfa. If thats how they planned the stories to jive they seriously failed miserably. Also if they intended for palps to be the bad guy you’d think they would have planted the seeds for his return much earlier and actually spent time explaining how they ****er survived (instead of leaving a massive plot hole) not to mention the whole ?son? thing. Not only that if palps wanted rey the whole time why the **** did he command kylo ren to kill her as snoke? None of it makes sense because the plan they had (if they had one) sucked balls and the directors they chose to film the different movies obviously did not like nor respect each other or what they had done in their respective movies. Its like we got to see a director pissing match unfold before our eyes in real time lol. Kk is the one to blame though she failed miserably in getting them to work together and overseeing a cohesive project. She allowed chaos to happen under her watch

 

[user 64404]

Who cares if they had a plan the st was still a disjointed mess- If they had one it sure the hell didnt help them otherwise tros wouldnt have spent half the movie trying to retcon tlj, and tlj wouldnt have completely ignored the story arcs that were established in tfa, nor poked fun at it ?take of that childish mask?, killing snoke off, the destruction of hux, the rey luke saber handoff. All you have to do is look at the ending of tfa, when rey first hands luke the lightsaber, the look on his face was serious but then tlj starts and he takes the lightsaber and tosses it over his head like it was a joke as if that whole scene didnt happen in tfa. If thats how they planned the stories to jive they seriously failed miserably. Also if they intended for palps to be the bad guy you’d think they would have planted the seeds for his return much earlier and actually spent time explaining how they ****er survived (instead of leaving a massive plot hole) not to mention the whole ?son? thing. Not only that if palps wanted rey the whole time why the **** did he command kylo ren to kill her as snoke? None of it makes sense because the plan they had (if they had one) sucked balls and the directors they chose to film the different movies obviously did not like nor respect each other or what they had done in their respective movies. Its like we got to see a director pissing match unfold before our eyes in real time lol

Actually the mess start with the TROS, TFA and TLJ are true sequel of each other but TROS is the one who mess the plot points;
Luke has PTSD, he is not the kid we meet in a new hope who dreams about the horizon, he is a guy who lived his life based on the way of the Jedi.
He learns the truth and the mistakes of the jedi and he fails when he let his nephew go to the darkside, it was palpatine who schemes in the backstage(snoke) the fall of the legendary master Skywalker.
When he see the lighsaber it triggers everything bad that happened to him, he is no longer the jedi knight who won aginst the emperor, he is the traumatized yoda from the end of the clone wars.
The lightsaber was a reminder of his failure, and he knows the truth about what the lightsaber really mean for a jedi, the lightsaber is a weapon and nothing more.
Thats why Yoda in episode V dont have a lighsaber, he knows that the jedi make many mistakes during the age of the republic and one of them was the overestimation of the lighsaber(or in the offensive abilities of a jedi)

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Actually the mess start with the TROS, TFA and TLJ are true sequel of each other but TROS is the one who mess the plot points;
Luke has PTSD, he is not the kid we meet in a new hope who dreams about the horizon, he is a guy who lived his life based on the way of the Jedi.
He learns the truth and the mistakes of the jedi and he fails when he let his nephew go to the darkside, it was palpatine who schemes in the backstage(snoke) the fall of the legendary master Skywalker.
When he see the lighsaber it triggers everything bad that happened to him, he is no longer the jedi knight who won aginst the emperor, he is the traumatized yoda from the end of the clone wars.
The lightsaber was a reminder of his failure, and he knows the truth about what the lightsaber really mean for a jedi, the lightsaber is a weapon and nothing more.

Fair points but i still dont think its a smooth transition whatsoever, tfa did not have to end like that if it was planned. It could have ended with rey and chewie landing on the island or with rey walking up and finding luke but not handing him the saber because in tfa they fixated on luke’s expression for a good minute or so of screen time thats a long time for just a facial expression. The worst of all luke calls it a laser sword im sorry but thats underhanded comment about star wars, people who dont respect it make fun of lightsabers as laser swords wtf

Also the kylo ren mask is key, notice how rj pokes fun of it but then JJ brings it back thats quite obviously a pissing match right there. Rose too, jj completely side lined her because she rjs character and he thought she was dumb like the rest of us. I dont feel like listing off all the examples of rj and jj attacking each other within their movies but its part of the reason why the st failed.

 

[user 64404]

Fair points but i still dont think its a smooth transition whatsoever, tfa did not have to end like that if it was planned. It could have ended with rey and chewie landing on the island or with rey walking up and finding luke but not handing him the saber because in tfa they fixated on his luke’s expression for a good minute or so of screen time thats a long time for just a facial expression. The worst of all luke calls it a laser sword im sorry but thats underhanded comment about star wars, people who dont respect it make fun of lightsabers as laser swords wtf

Also the kylo ren mask is key, notice how rj pokes fun of it but then JJ brings it back thats quite obviously a pissing match right there. Rose too, jj completely side lined her because she rjs character and he thought she was dumb like the rest of us. I dont feel like listing off all the examples of rj and jj attacking each other within their movies but its part of the reason why the st failed.

But the lightsaber is just a laser sword to him, he explained why he thinks that way and make sense.
First the things that you complaing in the first paragraph is subjective, you have all the right to dont like it that is your opinion.
Second, i agree with you in the sense that JJ abrams is the one who disrespect the franchise by doing this changes to the previous movie.
Kylo should not be in Vader shadows, thats why he break the helmet, he accomplished something Vader never could, be the alpha.
Rose and Holdo are a great new additions to the saga, like i said its subjetive you may hate them but dont change that they are key to plot of TLJ.

 

[ajp4mgs]

The worst of all luke calls it a laser sword im sorry but thats underhanded comment about star wars, people who dont respect it make fun of lightsabers as laser swords wtf

Didn't Anakin call it a laser sword in TPM?

I know for sure that George Lucas has called it a laser sword on more than one occasion.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Didn't Anakin call it a laser sword in TPM?

I know for sure that George Lucas has called it a laser sword on more than one occasion.

I think you are right but i just chalked it up to the kid not knowing what they are called. It was really weird hearing luke skywalker call them a laser sword because youd think he would have more respect for them then that and also since he knows the actual name of the weapon. Thats tlj for you though, ive already commented enough on that ****ing movie. They really drilled home the respect aspect in the pt with anakin losing his lightsaber and saying obi wan is going to kill me

 

[user 64404]

I think you are right but i just chalked it up to the kid not knowing what they are called. It was really weird hearing luke skywalker call them a laser sword because youd think he would have more respect for them that and also since he knows the actually name of the weapon. Thats tlj for you though, ive already commented enough on that ****ing movie. They really drilled home the respect aspect in the pt with anakin losing his lightsaber and saying obi wan is going to kill me

But dude he explained in the movie why he did that, at that point it was just worthless piece of metal, even in the ending of the movie the WEAPON isnt worth nothing look at kylo playing dumb swinging a ghost, THE TRUE WEAPON OF A JEDI IS THE FORCE. He showed this by saving everyone without fighting.
A true Jedi is a guardian of peace and not a Warrior. Yoda, Obi-wan, Kanam, Ezra and Ahsoka knew that, later luke also learned that.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

But dude he explained in the movie why he did that, at that point it was just worthless piece of metal, even in the ending of the movie the WEAPON isnt worth nothing look at kylo playing dumb swinging a ghost, THE TRUE WEAPON OF A JEDI IS THE FORCE. He showed this by saving everyone without fighting.
A true Jedi is a guardian of peace and not a Warrior. Yoda, Obi-wan, Ezra and Ahsoka knew that, later luke also learned that.

Again ive said my piece on last jedi and what it did to luke’s character, i dont want to waste anymore brain power or time discussing that atrocity and im sure people dont want to read it again. If you like it more power to you. Just search the thread for my posts if your interested but im sorry i just cannot discuss that movie anymore at least in terms of luke skywalker lol. Its not luke in my mind never will be. I know i brought up the lightsaber exchange but that was just to make a point about the disconnect amongst the st movies

I will add that kanan and ezra never ended up jaded like luke, and obi wan and yoda were never like luke to begin with they upheld the dogmatic views and rules of the jedi (they twisted the lightside of the force into something it was never meant to be) which led to anakins turn and their downfall, luke like quigon before him rejected these ways but tlj undid all that he stood for and learned. I have to leave it at that or else ill repeat myself again, ive said all this before. I hate being a broken record

 

[Khev]

I hadn't seen this post when I typed mine, but yeah, even more proof. Thank you!

I remember you being the one who originally debunked that claim way back when.

 

[Prime Clone]

How in the world was Rian Johnson going to re-write a film after her death in December, when everything had been shot and finished by July?

I thought the strike on the Raddus would have been the perfect opportunity to kill her off - and further traumatise Kylo, given he was going to spare her.

(I know that doesn't help subsequent scenes she was in, but... reshoots?)

 

[JAWS]

Yep, Lucas has taken obvious glee in doubling down on the stupidest elements of his Saga. Who the hell in his right mind looks at the revised Han/Greedo scene and says "yeah, but how can I make it *worse*?"



It's such a misnomer to claim that the ST "had no plan." I'm surprised to see even you perpetuating that JAWS. They had a plan. They had the entire trilogy outlined with the endgame in sight before even RO hit theaters. Colin Trevorrow's script dated November or December 2016 literally proves this. And Trevorrow himself confirmed on Twitter that the Duel of the Fates script (and all accompanying concept art also completed over a full year before even TLJ hit theaters) was indeed his.

The ST had a more unified plan than *both the OT and PT.* Do you think Lucas had a script for ROTS and concept art a year before AOTC hit theaters? Hell no. Do you think that ROTJ was written in 1979? HELL NO, lol. Disney/LFL did their due diligence and planned out the entire trilogy well in advance.

And that plan was to have TFA seem familiar with Snoke in the Emperor's role and Kylo in Darth Vader's role. Everything appeared the same but they were "going backward to go forward." And the "going forward" part was the huge twist that Snoke would not be the Emperor for very long and that the Darth Vader character (Kylo) was going to reign supreme this time around. However Disney saw how divisive TLJ was with the new ideas it was leaning into and called an audible with TROS. "Ditch the original plan. Go back to the familiar that audiences loved so much in TFA." And so they did. And the trilogy feels a bit disjointed due to the "course correction" but it isn't because they were making it all up as they were going. Far from it.

But ROTJ ditched the entire plan that George had with ESB so it's in good company. And TROS did a hell of a lot better of changing things at the last second than ROTJ did as well.

I guess I never thought about it.. TLJ seemed to ignore so much of TFA that or divert expectations, that it did not feel like there was a plan there. And Honestly I forget about the other script.

I guess I should say I wish the series was one person's overall story.

The ST cared more about selling merchandise first and story second and that?s a big reason why it failed.

I just dont agree with this.. If they were so concerned about selling toys as their top priority then they would have had rey in three to four different outfits per movie. All the characters would look different several times per film. There would be way more aliens and monsters.. New Ships in every film.. But nope they kept it pretty basic. Its not surprising to me that the toys didnt sell.

Plus, and I said this before, Disney marketed to the wrong sex.. Girls just dont get into action figures like boys do. And boys like monsters / aliens / and cool new ships.

I am willing to level the fact that this was part of the problem of the ST. It lacked that "I want to sell toys" magic of imagination that George had.

I am not saying Toys were not on the agenda for the ST but nothing like it was a main priority for Lucas after the original SW. Lucas dressed Leia up in no less the 5 outfits in ROTJ.

Ewoks, JAr Jar.. I mean george put that crap in there for the kids because kids buy toys.

After BB8 I am not sure that he ST had any major toy grab characters or ships.. I mean if you own an x wing or Tie Fighter why get those (Talking older fans here)

And if you want to sell to the younger fans that dont have that stuff.. Well you better sell it to the boys and not the girls.. I am fine with saying people don't like th story and thus did not buy toys. But I really dont see the argument of wanting to sell toys at the expense of story..

Oh boy. "Every time I think I'm out, they keep pulling me back in!" Okay here goes.

Unlike others (and unlike doomcock), I'll take the time to provide links in order to source what I say here. Filming of TLJ wrapped up in July of 2016 (check the link below if you don't believe me). Carrie Fisher died 5 months later, in December of that year. How in the world was Rian Johnson going to re-write a film after her death in December, when everything had been shot and finished by July?

https://ew.com/article/2016/07/22/star-wars-episode-8-wraps-filming-rian-johnson/

When Carrie died, they were already well into post-production, and the movie was ready for screening in September of 2017. You can read about that in the article below.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/star-wars-last-jedi-wrapped-production-early.html/

And as far as RJ shooting off of his first draft, what if I told you that production of TLJ was delayed because of script re-writes? Yeah, that's right: not only was it not based on a first draft, it was actually postponed due to a *re-wriiten* script. Don't believe me? Just read the article linked below.

https://movieweb.com/star-wars-8-script-rewrites-force-awakens-characters/



How about that unresolved little matter of the First Order vs. the Resistance? Was that not the overarching plot of the sequels? TLJ not only left that in play, but put the Resistance in such a disadvantaged position as to necessitate something dramatic happening in the next movie.

How about the grandson of Anakin/Vader having ascended to the throne of a burgeoning empire?

How about "see ya around, kid" where Luke could now be "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" in his interactions with his nephew?

If you find none of this intriguing, that wouldn't surprise me. People who have disliked the ST from the start (or even just after TLJ) would obviously be less interested in the plot points left unresolved. If you don't like the FO because you think they represent a cheap copy of the Empire, you probably don't care about how the *main plot point* of the ST is going to resolve itself after the middle chapter. And if you don't like Kylo Ren as a character, you probably wouldn't care to know how he handles and resolves the lofty position of power that his grandfather had once sought. And if you don't like that Luke wasn't the main hero of this sequel trilogy, then you probably won't care what he might do as a ghost to patch up what went wrong as a result of failing to keep his nephew on the side of the light.

Ok That last bit about what could have been for the final SW would have saved TLJ for sure. Very intriguing.

 

[JAWS]

Psssst. Hey I got a secret for you. Guess what? Now fans realize how stupid they e been and the PT popularity is at an all time high. Only a handful of people hate the PT now. People have grown to accept it. All it?s flaws and all it?s wacky antics and all it?s silly crap has all been accepted and people don?t care anymore cause they didn?t think it was gonna get any worse .

Guess what?

It did so now people are looking back and saying. That wasn?t so bad when it wasn?t. Ok maybe some things not all. And yea I?m going to bring up the ST cause that plays a huge factor .

Star Wars was still a beloved and untouchable franchise after the PT and people just choose to ignore the bad prequels but now the ST came out and people left Star Wars in the dust.

And I don?t have an issue I just think OT fans criticize Lucas but atleast the man had a plan and didn?t kill the brand. Were his methods flawed? Yes. Could it have been better? Yes? But he succeeded in grabbing a new fanbase and keeping Star Wars relevant. What has this new franchise done?

So yea your list is nice and long but at the end of the day people choose to accept that for what it is and it grew on them.

Also what documentaries? You mean that ONE whine fest the people vs Goerge Lucas? The film made About people were crying about some silly frog man throughout the documentary? That one? Please. Who cares. The same ones who whined in that documentary are crying about how Luke was ruined in TLJ and now they want Lucas back. They barely acknowledged ROTS in that film.

I mean I understand OT fans are grumbling and mad at changes to lore but it ain?t bad. It didn?t kill the franchise. It didn?t take the magic away. The ST did.

See post below.

The PT's popularity is at an all time high because the people who were kids when they first saw it are now adults posting about it on forums. Meanwhile even newer young fans are watching the PT with zero expectations going in and with no great attachment to the OT like the original generation of fans had - so yeah, odds are they like the PT aswell and are adding to its fandom. In this way PT fandom grows - it was inevitable as it turns out - and this same process may well occur with the ST. We live in the matrix. Everything that is happening now has happened before and will happen again.

As for fans realizing how 'stupid' they have been and now liking the PT all of a sudden whilst 'correctly' hating the ST - I question that. If that is happening then maybe they are idiots but not for the reason you're suggesting. More than one thing can suck at the same time. Just because new ***t comes along doesn't make old ***t not be ***t anymore. The PT is ***t. The ST is also ***t. Simples

Exactly.. Its up to the viewer how much crap they are living to live with when it comes to the ST and PT.. TROS somehow against all odds allowed be to accept all the crap of the PT and OT

I thought your previous argument was that those who grew up with the OT didn't need to have everything explained to them because you could use your imagination to fill in the blanks.

My issue with that is that the story is boring to begin with and at least I know who other characters are when I have to use my imagination.. AOTC needed a clone army so they came up with this guy who was building a secret army... For reasons...

There is nothing for my imagination to even play with. Some Guy, wanted some aliens, to make some clones, for some reason, for some war.

Now I did a bit a looking to find that that Jedi had the gift of foresight... But the movie never said anything about that..

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

The difference between kylo and anakin is kylo never really wanted any of this deep down it was all “dark sith magic” manipulating his mind. Anakin wanted to save padme he loved her, he consciously chose His actions kylo did not. it was a different type of manipulation. Also the character of Kylo ren/ben solo was the best (new) part of the st i dont know how anyone could hate that character outside of his arc in tlj which again its hard for me to enjoy anything about tlj other than some of the visuals

 

[Khev]

I guess I never thought about it.. TLJ seemed to ignore so much of TFA that or divert expectations, that it did not feel like there was a plan there. And Honestly I forget about the other script.

I guess I should say I wish the series was one person's overall story.

I can understand that. Though the "many cooks" approach certainly worked for Marvel so I can see why Disney would have assumed that the same would hold true for their other big cinematic universe. And sometimes the "one person's story" approach itself can backfire as we've seen with Lucas himself. You just never know and as always hindsight is 20/20. Since I love TROS so much and know that that film literally wouldn't exist if JJ had done it all himself I personally am quite partial to the approach they took.

Sure I've got my list of criticisms just like everyone else but when all was said and done, and with the dreadful PT staring Disney down in the rearview mirror I'm not surprised that they just took the "do the exact opposite of THAT" approach in pretty much every way.

 

[TheDucky]

Hey Khev and Jack, how about you post a source about how the ST was planned? You know, credible evidence?

Either way, guess I have to prove y?all completely wrong again.

THE ST HAD NO PLAN

From Rian Johnson himself.

Is there an overarching plot for where the trilogy goes? You obviously have The Force Awakens as a jumping off point, but is there a place you need to get to, in order to set up J.J. Abrams? Episode IX?

RJ: Not really. That?s what?s been really cool about the storytelling process. There is definitely the idea that we know it is a three-movie arc. We know the first film is an introduction, then the middle act is training, meaning challenging the characters. The third is where they all come together and you have to resolve everything.

But I was truly able to write this script without bases to tag, and without a big outline on the wall. That meant I could react to what I felt from The Force Awakens, and what I wanted to see. I could make this movie personal. I could also just take these characters where it felt right and most interesting to take them. I think part of the reason the movie feels like it goes to some unexpected places with the characters is that we had that freedom. If it had all just been planned out and written down beforehand, it might have felt a little more calculated, I suppose.

https://deadline.com/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rian-johnson-ram-bergman-interview-spoilers-deleted-scenes-lucasfilm-plans-1202227741/

 

[user 64404]

Hey Khev and Jack, how about you post a source about how the ST was planned? You know, credible evidence?

Either way, guess I have to prove y?all completely wrong again.

THE ST HAD NO PLAN

From Rian Johnson himself.



https://deadline.com/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rian-johnson-ram-bergman-interview-spoilers-deleted-scenes-lucasfilm-plans-1202227741/

Here is the plan "We know the first film is an introduction, then the middle act is training, meaning challenging the characters. The third is where they all come together and you have to resolve everything."

 

[Khev]

Hey Khev and Jack, how about you post a source about how the ST was planned? You know, credible evidence?

Either way, guess I have to prove y?all completely wrong again.

THE ST HAD NO PLAN

From Rian Johnson himself:

We know the first film is an introduction, then the middle act is training, meaning challenging the characters. The third is where they all come together and you have to resolve everything.

Which is exactly how George Lucas described the OT.

Except he didn't have ROTJ written a full year before the release of ESB.