Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Here is the plan "We know the first film is an introduction, then the middle act is training, meaning challenging the characters. The third is where they all come together and you have to resolve everything."

Thats not a plan thats like a sports teams saying the plan is to score points on offense stop the opposing team on defense then play sound special teams. Ok but how do you go about doing that whats the actual detailed strategy that you employ to achieve these objectives, thats an actual game plan.

 

[TheDucky]

I love that the STDS folks cling to their little Doomcockian narratives no matter what reality exists in front of their own eyes. "No plan." Right they only had Rey's freaking name spelled out on paper just a few months after TFA left theaters, lol.

No, they didn?t. It?s utterly hilarious how much of a fool you are making out of yourself right now

What Khev said is right, the one that changed the plans for the sequel trilogy was TROS, the blame could be jj abrams or the executive producers that feared the backlash from TLj.
Rey was a nobody, the force choose her just like Anakin was choosen(He may be a creation of Darth Plagueis and grow under the umbrella of Palpatine but he was a nobody, a nameless slave), that why the broom boy and the Canto Bight scene is important is a message that disney wanted to pass to the public, that anyone can be destined to greatness.
The Colin Trevorrow's script dated November or December 2016, continues this and put the regular people to fight the facist First Order. Its like Luke ending the sith by saving his father and not killing Vader\Palpatine, he got rid of the EVIL but not the evil schemes of politics that gave the first order the advantage pre-TFA to destroy the new republic OR The political schemes that Palpatine used to create the empire.

This guy knows what's what.

It does appear that JJ didn't have a clear picture of how Episodes VIII and IX would go when he made TFA (but that's JJ for you) however RJ and and Trevorrow quickly devised a trajectory immediately after TFA that would have encompassed the entire trilogy. Which again means that the ST had more forethought than both the OT and PT.

The OT wasnt planned that is a fact, but the PT and ST was planned. PT in the 90's and the ST when disney bought Lucasfilm

2017 Deadline Interview with RJ

Is there an overarching plot for where the trilogy goes? You obviously have The Force Awakens as a jumping off point, but is there a place you need to get to, in order to set up J.J. Abrams? Episode IX?

RJ: Not really. That?s what?s been really cool about the storytelling process. There is definitely the idea that we know it is a three-movie arc. We know the first film is an introduction, then the middle act is training, meaning challenging the characters. The third is where they all come together and you have to resolve everything.

But I was truly able to write this script without bases to tag, and without a big outline on the wall. That meant I could react to what I felt from The Force Awakens, and what I wanted to see. I could make this movie personal. I could also just take these characters where it felt right and most interesting to take them. I think part of the reason the movie feels like it goes to some unexpected places with the characters is that we had that freedom. If it had all just been planned out and written down beforehand, it might have felt a little more calculated, I suppose.


Rian Johnson Tweet from May 2017

I?m sure they talked about where it might go early on, but when they came to me there was no mapped story presented beyond TFA.

Jurassic World?s Colin Trevorrow will take the reins from Johnson, directing and handling the script with his writing partner Derek Connolly. Though it was rumored Johnson wrote a treatment for the film, The Last Jedi director recently revealed that Trevorrow and Connolly would be working from scratch and craft their own film.

Though the news that these filmmakers are working without an overall plan for the characters in the franchise might worry some?did Abrams and Co. know who Rey?s parents were, or Snoke?s identity, or why Ben Solo became Kylo Ren?!?it?s not an unprecedented process even in the Star Wars Universe.

Article and source: https://comicbook.com/starwars/news/lucasfilm-no-plans-for-episodes-viii-ix-after-the-force-awakens/

.....

In May, Vanity Fair?s cover story focused on the making of Star Wars: Episode VIII ? The Last Jedi. Written by David Kamp, the very beginning of the article revealed that after Rey met Luke Skywalker at the end of The Force Awakens, J.J. Abrams didn?t keep cameras rolling. And that?s because, Abrams ? one of the writers for The Force Awakens ? seemed to not know what was going to happen in the next installment. This notion isn?t a secret. The powers that be at Lucasfilm and Disney aren?t hiding this idea. Instead, the PR machine is giving the opposite impression, that the creative direction of the new Star Wars trilogy was never plotted out ahead of time.

https://www.inverse.com/article/349...jack-thorne-screenplay-cursed-child-last-jedi

 

[jal76]

Which is exactly how George Lucas described the OT.

Except he didn't have ROTJ written a full year before the release of ESB.

So...how does that crow taste Mr The Sequel Trilogy Had a Plan?
Bwah hah hah hah....Thanks for bringing the receipts Ducky I was too lazy but was definitely getting very tempted to correct so much blatant misinformation!

 

[Prime Clone]

One thing we can all agree on: the saga has never reached the same heights as the middle instalment, ESB (despite Anthony Daniels telling us TFA was better!)

It's the ol' bell curve I referenced previously: start and end on a low, peak in the middle.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

One thing we can all agree on: the saga has never reached the same heights as the middle instalment, ESB (despite Anthony Daniels telling us TFA was better!)

It's the ol' bell curve I referenced previously: start and end on a low, peak in the middle.

The ot didnt start low but it did peak in the middle esb>new hope>jedi

The pt and st definitely did not peak in the middle (atoc and tlj) tfa>tros>tlj
Sith>pm>atoc or Tros> tfa> tlj pm>sith>atoc (it dont matter how you spin it pretty unanimous with middle chapters here at least for the majority of star wars fans)

 

[Bravomite]

Oh boy. "Every time I think I'm out, they keep pulling me back in!" Okay here goes.

Unlike others (and unlike doomcock), I'll take the time to provide links in order to source what I say here. Filming of TLJ wrapped up in July of 2016 (check the link below if you don't believe me). Carrie Fisher died 5 months later, in December of that year. How in the world was Rian Johnson going to re-write a film after her death in December, when everything had been shot and finished by July?

https://ew.com/article/2016/07/22/star-wars-episode-8-wraps-filming-rian-johnson/

When Carrie died, they were already well into post-production, and the movie was ready for screening in September of 2017. You can read about that in the article below.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/star-wars-last-jedi-wrapped-production-early.html/

And as far as RJ shooting off of his first draft, what if I told you that production of TLJ was delayed because of script re-writes? Yeah, that's right: not only was it not based on a first draft, it was actually postponed due to a *re-wriiten* script. Don't believe me? Just read the article linked below.

https://movieweb.com/star-wars-8-script-rewrites-force-awakens-characters/



How about that unresolved little matter of the First Order vs. the Resistance? Was that not the overarching plot of the sequels? TLJ not only left that in play, but put the Resistance in such a disadvantaged position as to necessitate something dramatic happening in the next movie.

How about the grandson of Anakin/Vader having ascended to the throne of a burgeoning empire?

How about "see ya around, kid" where Luke could now be "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" in his interactions with his nephew?

If you find none of this intriguing, that wouldn't surprise me. People who have disliked the ST from the start (or even just after TLJ) would obviously be less interested in the plot points left unresolved. If you don't like the FO because you think they represent a cheap copy of the Empire, you probably don't care about how the *main plot point* of the ST is going to resolve itself after the middle chapter. And if you don't like Kylo Ren as a character, you probably wouldn't care to know how he handles and resolves the lofty position of power that his grandfather had once sought. And if you don't like that Luke wasn't the main hero of this sequel trilogy, then you probably won't care what he might do as a ghost to patch up what went wrong as a result of failing to keep his nephew on the side of the light.

Haha! Whenever AJP wades in I hear breaking glass followed by Stone Cold's music (JR screaming "AJP! AJP! AJP! by gawd AJP is here!"), oh boy AJP gonna stomp a mudhole in those TLJ haters (in this case me!). Thanks for the lengthy reply with sources ... you must be new to the internet, we don't serve the kind that quote sources around here.

I don't agree with your comment that they did not have time re-edit, shoot the movie to change Leia's fate. They had almost a whole year to do it! They were doing re-shoots and re-cutting TROS within 2 months of the release date. It can be done.

They also could have done the unthinkable, delay the movie. Say that with the untimely passing of Carrie we want to respect her legacy and have taken the difficult decision to change the movie at this late stage to tell the most cohesive and best version of the story that we can going forwards ... it's what she would have wanted. Explain that Carrie was going to have a big part in 9 that we were all really excited about but sadly that is one story that will have to remain in the galaxy far far away that we love. Then they could either go for the avengers infinity war / end game slot in easter that Solo took or push it back a whole year and have back to back star wars movies a year a part. Anyways I bet the thought of missing the release date would have been enough motivation to get the movie ready for the Christmas holiday.

i don't think it would have been that difficult either. Have Leia die in the explosion on the Raddus. It would have been shocking (from a story telling perspective) but also strangely not because my audience certainly expected it. People gasped in the cinema, there was a strange electricity like 'well there it is' and then shock turned to disbelief and laughter as she flew Poppins style. It would have heightened the tension not just for Kylo but also Poe. Now the mutiny might mean something more as it was him against someone external who he did not know (no chance of falling back on Leia to take charge). Or try and edit it so that Leia lightspeed jumps the Raddus if Rian really wants his flying moment. It really would have meant more if Leia sliced the First Order in half through her sacrifice - aiming the raddus at her son to protect her adopted family.

Leia could have been a force ghost at the end if they really wished to keep that Luke and Leia scene in it but personally I would have left it out.

Not really that many scenes to re-shoot. Don't have Luke disappear at the end.

Or go even easier, just don't have Luke disappear at the end, no other changes. Have Leia die off-screen between films.

You were correct about those dangling plot threads, not one of them was interesting to me haha. If Luke had been alive I would have been really keen to see what those words 'see you around kid' meant. Had Rey taken Kylo's hand and they both ascended to take their place as leaders of the new order / new empire then I would have been very intrigued what would happen next.

Having the first order get beat badly in TFA then come out (inexplicably) in a stronger position in TLJ and the rebellion / resistance be on their last legs made no sense and just made me think it doesn't matter how they finish TLJ as they will just pick it up however they want next time. There are no real stakes. I mean it's quite an interesting idea that no one came to their call on Crate to help them but the disconnect between TFA and TLJ I've just covered didn't give in any real bite. The resistance will be fine (and they were). They had more resources again and their must have been a lot more people than I thought on the Falcon.

 

[Khev]

Haha! Whenever AJP wades in I hear breaking glass followed by Stone Cold's music (JR screaming "AJP! AJP! AJP! by gawd AJP is here!"), oh boy AJP gonna stomp a mudhole in those TLJ haters (in this case me!). Thanks for the lengthy reply with sources ... you must be new to the internet, we don't serve the kind that quote sources around here.

So true, lol.

Having the first order get beat badly in TFA then come out (inexplicably) in a stronger position in TLJ and the rebellion / resistance be on their last legs made no sense

Are you talking about TLJ...or ESB?

and just made me think it doesn't matter how they finish TLJ as they will just pick it up however they want next time. There are no real stakes. I mean it's quite an interesting idea that no one came to their call on Crate to help them but the disconnect between TFA and TLJ I've just covered didn't give in any real bite. The resistance will be fine (and they were). They had more resources again and their must have been a lot more people than I thought on the Falcon.

Great stuff.

 

[Prime Clone]

The ot didnt start low but it did peak in the middle esb>new hope>jedi

The pt and st definitely did not peak in the middle (atoc and tlj) tfa>tros>tlj
Sith>pm>atoc or Tros> tfa> tlj pm>sith>atoc (it dont matter how you spin it pretty unanimous with middle chapters here at least for the majority of star wars fans)

Sorry, I was referring to the entire nine-part saga. It peaked with the OT and started/ended low with the PT and ST. I'd even posit the PT got progressively better and the ST progressively worse (though I find it hard to separate TFA & TLJ).

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Sorry, I was referring to the entire nine-part saga. It peaked with the OT and started/ended low with the PT and ST. I'd even posit the PT got progressively better and the ST progressively worse (though I find it hard to separate TFA & TLJ).

I can separate tfa and tlj- i actually like the st better going straight from tfa to tros lol. Sure luke is already a force ghost and snoke is gone but **** it flows better as a story plus i get to see rey actually train a bit, what luke did with her in tlj was not training (he tickled her with a leaf, screamed rey like finn and fought her with a stick after he pissed her off and she nearly killed him) imo esp with yoda being like the girl already knows everything she must as he nukes the force tree with sith lightning lol

 

[Bravomite]

Are you talking about TLJ...or ESB?

Hahaha good point. I guess the difference is world building. I knew that the empire had vast resources. They ruled the galaxy by fear and force and their strangle hold on that power was so tight that they felt confident to do away with the last vestiges of democracy by removing the senate. The empire still ruled the galaxy for a number of years before they had the death star so its loss (whilst unfortunate) would not be enough to topple them or really change things up other than to remove their super weapon and knock their perceived invincibility.

The rebels on the other hand threw everything they had at the death star attach and barely escaped with any fighters. It cost them dearly to score that victory.

In the ST I assumed that the first order was probably some remnant of the defeated empire but one that the new republic did not view it is a credible threat until the super dooper mega deluxe death star planet appeared (how do you build that in secrecy lol). The resistance came off as a branch of the new republic, perhaps an extremist group... always looking for the next bogeyman but still very much with the backing the new republic. So in a sense the roles had changed, the first order were the rebellion and the resistance were part of the empire.

Comparatively therefore, losing Starkiller base felt like it would have been quite blow to the first order. The resistance did not even seem to take a huge amount of loses and they were victorious. Sure Starkiller base nuked some planets I had never heard of but the new republic was still there surely, the galaxy used to be a big place??? What about coruscant, the seat of power. I mean, surely the crazy rambings of old Leia would now be taken seriously and her resistance properly funded and supported by the forces of the new republic. With the info presented in TFA that is the logical conclusion.

Only that's not what happened at all. The new republic either gave up or the battle between resistance and first order was so minor league that the rest of the galaxy was like ok you guys you go play OT over there in the corner whilst we go about our business here. It just seems nonsensical that the first order had the resources to take out the entirety of the new republic, seize control and then all but obliterate the resistance in the five minutes between TFA ending and TLJ beginning. But then I guess they wanted to start just like Empire.

 

[jal76]

No, they didn?t. It?s utterly hilarious how much of a fool you are making out of yourself right now


.....

In May, Vanity Fair?s cover story focused on the making of Star Wars: Episode VIII ? The Last Jedi. Written by David Kamp, the very beginning of the article revealed that after Rey met Luke Skywalker at the end of The Force Awakens, J.J. Abrams didn?t keep cameras rolling. And that?s because, Abrams ? one of the writers for The Force Awakens ? seemed to not know what was going to happen in the next installment. This notion isn?t a secret. The powers that be at Lucasfilm and Disney aren?t hiding this idea. Instead, the PR machine is giving the opposite impression, that the creative direction of the new Star Wars trilogy was never plotted out ahead of time.

https://www.inverse.com/article/349...jack-thorne-screenplay-cursed-child-last-jedi

Yep...I can?t even fully enjoy him being proven so wrong about this after doubling and tripling down on it all day because on a purely human level I am actually too embarrassed for him.

 

[Khev]

No, they didn?t. It?s utterly hilarious how much of a fool you are making out of yourself right now

Hey Duck post another link where RJ describes the ST's outline, then says there was no outline. Or says that he had "no bases to tag" when it was already confirmed that he did tag bases (Poe meeting Finn, etc.) Your own post contradicted itself several times over and only proved my point. But hey there's a narrative to stick to and YouTube videos to click so have at it.

Hahaha good point. I guess the difference is world building. I knew that the empire had vast resources. They ruled the galaxy by fear and force and their strangle hold on that power was so tight that they felt confident to do away with the last vestiges of democracy by removing the senate. The empire still ruled the galaxy for a number of years before they had the death star so its loss (whilst unfortunate) would not be enough to topple them or really change things up other than to remove their super weapon and knock their perceived invincibility.

Ha ha, I was just messing with you. I agree that TFA and TLJ didn't do a very good job at all of establishing just what the entirety of the FO entailed. That damn vague opening crawl of TFA was the greatest offender. Sure TROS did a good job of establishing what was what but it sure took them long enough, lol.

 

[Prime Clone]

what luke did with her in tlj was not training (he tickled her with a leaf, screamed rey like finn and fought her with a stick after he pissed her off and she nearly killed him)

 

[Khev]

Okay just the highlighted text you quoted is pretty hilarious Prime Clone.

 

[Bravomite]

Hey Duck post another link where RJ describes the ST's outline, then says there was no outline. Or says that he had "no bases to tag" when it was already confirmed that he did tag bases (Poe meeting Finn, etc.) Your own post contradicted itself several times over and only proved my point. But hey there's a narrative to stick to and YouTube videos to click so have at it.



Ha ha, I was just messing with you. I agree that TFA and TLJ didn't do a very good job at all of establishing just what the entirety of the FO entailed. That damn vague opening crawl of TFA was the greatest offender. Sure TROS did a good job of establishing what was what but it sure took them long enough, lol.

Haha I yeh I know but I felt compelled to write it out, look what you made me do!

DoomKhev made another announcement today. I think he is enjoying his new found internet fandom and wanting to keep his new fanbase and subscribers - however some of the things he reported today were very suspect almost straying into Mike Zeroh territory (at least some of his older videos actually were quite on the money which appeared to give him credibility). He conveniently offered himself an out from ever having to be proven correct again by saying that LFL and Disney were now watching his channel (as it had grown so big) and as such were being reactionary to his reporting (changing their plans). He also said his was a platform that could make a real difference because of this new found LFL and Disney interest so he needs as many subscribers as possible to really send them a message. To be honest he has the charisma to really make a good super villain (perhaps he is just playing up to the character he created for himself). He also gave three new possible scenarios for wiping out the ST none of which seem credible.

If Disney ever wants to 're-do it' then it will be on the sly. They aren't going to draw attention to a possible perceived failure and will just not play in the ST timeline much for a few years, let it mellow. Let nostalgia and good will from future shows like Kenobi and Mando will bring the fans back and once they are confident they can re-explore that time frame again (once KK has gone of course so they can dissociate it from her unpopularity). Any veil of the force shenigans will either be relegated to a cartoon or the Ahsoka show so that the ST never gets visibly de-canonised.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Haha I yeh I know but I felt compelled to write it out, look what you made me do!

DoomKhev made another announcement today. I think he is enjoying his new found internet fandom and wanting to keep his new fanbase and subscribers - however some of the things he reported today were very suspect almost straying into Mike Zeroh territory (at least some of his older videos actually were quite on the money which appeared to give him credibility). He conveniently offered himself an out from ever having to be proven correct again by saying that LFL and Disney were now watching his channel (as it had grown so big) and as such were being reactionary to his reporting (changing their plans). He also said his was a platform that could make a real difference because of this new found LFL and Disney interest so he needs as many subscribers as possible to really send them a message. To be honest he has the charisma to really make a good super villain (perhaps he is just playing up to the character he created for himself). He also gave three new possible scenarios for wiping out the ST none of which seem credible.

If Disney ever wants to 're-do it' then it will be on the sly. They aren't going to draw attention to a possible perceived failure and will just not play in the ST timeline much for a few years, let it mellow. Let nostalgia and good will from future shows like Kenobi and Mando will bring the fans back and once they are confident they can re-explore that time frame again (once KK has gone of course so they can dissociate it from her unpopularity). Any veil of the force shenigans will either be relegated to a cartoon or the Ahsoka show so that the ST never gets visibly de-canonised.

They dont have to remove it from canon st can exist as its own thing but in another timeline where the emperor escapes his doom in rotj. The st work pretty well as its own contained story outside of the main skywalker saga as long as you remove luke or say it exists on a separate timeline, like divergent flashpoint path, disney could have their cake and eat it too, they can spin this into a positive thing where the st is looked upon differently

 

[TheDucky]

Hey Duck post another link where RJ describes the ST's outline, then says there was no outline.

Where does he describe the ST outline? You didn’t even read anything!

Or says that he had "no bases to tag" when it was already confirmed that he did tag bases (Poe meeting Finn, etc.)

A small little scene! Come on man, the discussion is about the plan of the overarching plot of the ST, and you pick and choose these little crumbs to stand on?

Your own post contradicted itself several times over and only proved my point. But hey there's a narrative to stick to and YouTube videos to click so have at it.

Where are the contradictions?

You are getting destroyed with so many facts

Still waiting for a single source about how the ST was planned out.

Just one measly little source.

 

[Khev]

Haha I yeh I know but I felt compelled to write it out, look what you made me do!

DoomKhev made another announcement today. I think he is enjoying his new found internet fandom and wanting to keep his new fanbase and subscribers - however some of the things he reported today were very suspect almost straying into Mike Zeroh territory (at least some of his older videos actually were quite on the money which appeared to give him credibility). He conveniently offered himself an out from ever having to be proven correct again by saying that LFL and Disney were now watching his channel (as it had grown so big) and as such were being reactionary to his reporting (changing their plans). He also said his was a platform that could make a real difference because of this new found LFL and Disney interest so he needs as many subscribers as possible to really send them a message. To be honest he has the charisma to really make a good super villain (perhaps he is just playing up to the character he created for himself). He also gave three new possible scenarios for wiping out the ST none of which seem credible.

So because he reported that George was going to come in and "save" SW Disney is responding to his YouTube video by...firing George Lucas? Again?

Is that what you're saying? If so that's freaking hilarious.

If Disney ever wants to 're-do it' then it will be on the sly. They aren't going to draw attention to a possible perceived failure and will just not play in the ST timeline much for a few years, let it mellow. Let nostalgia and good will from future shows like Kenobi and Mando will bring the fans back and once they are confident they can re-explore that time frame again (once KK has gone of course so they can dissociate it from her unpopularity). Any veil of the force shenigans will either be relegated to a cartoon or the Ahsoka show so that the ST never gets visibly de-canonised.

As I said if they really think that George is the answer then just let him write and direct Episodes 10-12 and close out the Saga with Whills driving people around like cars. I literally want to see it not only for my own amusement but just to imagine the looks on the PT children's faces when their Savior puts six hours of THAT up on the big screen, lol.

 

[Khev]

Still waiting for a single source about how the ST was planned out.

Just one measly little source.

You mean other than the source that *you* posted?

 

[jal76]

Where does he describe the ST outline? You didn?t even read anything!



A small little scene! Come on man, the discussion is about the plan of the overarching plot of the ST, and you pick and choose these little crumbs to stand on?



Where are the contradictions?

You are getting destroyed with so many facts

Still waiting for a single source about how the ST was planned out.

Just one measly little source.

He has actually reached the point where he is saying that the written words of the people who made the movies stating their intentions are invalid because they do not match his imagined reasons behind their intentions.
It?s painful to watch someone squirm so hard to save face after having lost an argument.
I would just take the L and move on personally.