Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[TheDucky]

I like how he tried to say it without saying it and gave excuses for it. He knows Hollywood punishes you if you speak out.

He can make a few pro Biden posts and all will be forgiven.

 

[jal76]

Anyone who has any clue about anything knows that there was no plan.
All you have to do is watch the movies to see that there was no plan.
Now the guy who made the first and third films, who would probably know better than almost anyone else, admits there was no plan.
And yet, some people still insist that there was a plan.
That makes zero sense.

 

[ironwez20]

Your kidding yourself if you thought there was. I have never seen a bigger disjointed mess in a huge trilogy. Writing was absolutely stupid

 

[TheDucky]

Anyone who has any clue about anything knows that there was no plan.
All you have to do is watch the movies to see that there was no plan.
Now the guy who made the first and third films, who would probably know better than almost anyone else, admits there was no plan.
And yet, some people still insist that there was a plan.
That makes zero sense.

Hey we finally agree on something

 

[jal76]

Hey we finally agree on something

Ha ha cats and dogs living together!

 

[Ropen]

But like it?s been said before you had all these colossal ST fans swearing up and down it was the greatest trilogy all of time because it was planned sooooooo beautifully


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[matticus]

But like it?s been said before you had all these colossal ST fans swearing up and down it was the greatest trilogy all of time because it was planned sooooooo beautifully


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Ignorance is bliss. Can't crap on all the figures they bought!

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

No plan is necessary when you have an agenda...

 

[Ropen]

Ignorance is bliss. Can't crap on all the figures they bought!

Very true, money does really talk.


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[jal76]

No plan is necessary when you have an agenda...

An agenda would at least have been something. Something bad, but something.
The only agenda that I saw on display was ruining Star Wars.

 

[xipotec]

It?s really not about having a plan.....

OT had no plan.

GL is a huge BS artist , he?s lied continuously about the story and how much he had planned out......

He just got lucky and surrounded himself with some of the greatest talent in the industry at the time.....


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[ironwez20]

Yea but the writing fit so well. They didn?t rely on the name alone. They wanted the story to fit together perfectly and not feel out of place . They had to come up with ways to make the story make sense. They probably didn?t have a plan but it still worked out and that?s why everyone loved it

The ST just said **** it, the nerds will buy it anyway and we will make money. So they churned out soulless crap to get nostalgia consumers in seats hoping they would t care about the plot. People accepted the first movie but by the second movie it all went to hell

It backfired and they had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for dead characters and lando and all that jazz. In the end they pretty much tainted the brand and the ST doesn?t sell. All Star Wars media now consist of OT, PT and mando.

 

[Otomofan]

I've known since I was a little kid seeing ROTJ on opening day (man, my dad was the coolest for making that happen!) that there was no "plan" for the OT, cause even as a little kid I knew that open-mouth kissing your sister is not cool. So I knew he just pulled that **** outta his ass.

OT had no plan, but it mostly works, and mostly through a series of happy accidents (when Lucas had that "ah ha!" moment to merge Luke's father and Vader and make them the same character.)

The PT is a mess, in my opinion, only cause it was so heavily reliant on nostalgia that OT characters were shoehorned in, making this vast universe that was supposed to be unimaginably sprawling feel like the size of three blocks in Brooklyn. Everyone knows everyone.

The Disney trilogy is a complete and utter pile of freshly squeezed horse**** that clearly didn't even have a plan during actual production of the FIRST film, let alone an outline for three movies. Rey didn't have a ****ing last name!! Neither did Snoke...he was just "Snoke." And how in the name of **** did lemony butthole eyes get Luke's old lightsaber? "Oh, just a story for another time." (Story never got told onscreen, apparently modern moviegoers don't give a crap about "details.")

For the record, I've still never seen this movie and I most likely never will. And I feel good about that. I've seen all the REAL Star Wars movies a zillion times. You'd have to use Clockwork Orange thingies on my eyes to make me watch trash like this.

 

[matticus]

Well when you don't have a plan and it works, great. If you fall flat on your face and get trashed for it, well you should've had a plan.

 

[loki2371]

All a plan needs to be is a simple outline. A chain of events that lead to a conclusion/finale. A point to the story being told.

If you are making a 3 movie trilogy, you should have a predetermined definite beginning and a definite end. As you go along, it's ok to make tweaks to the story. Every writer never truly finishes. They simply have a deadline where they can no longer go back and rethink parts.

The OT had this. Lucas new what he was doing, but yes he made changes as he went along, and took input from those around him. He was writing his story for years before he came to his final draft. He even had a brief outline for the PT, so he new what the backstory was for his characters. But, yes he did change much.

The ST had no plan, no outline. Kennedy allowed every director to do their own thing based on what was done before. Palpatine was never designed to be the end adversary that was shadowing the events from the beginning. JJ had to retcon everything from his movie as he set up Snoke to be the villain but RJ killed him...

TLJ was the problem. It was almost 3 movies in one. RJ made sure his full vision was seen. **** the next movie.. Not his problem.

 

[Khev]

Lucas had a solid foundation for ANH but no real plan for how the characters related to one another (literally) or how he was going to wrap the Saga for the OT (he didn't even plan for it to *be* an OT since he initially thought that the story would continue past three films.)

Lucas had a clear picture of the lava duel for Episode III but otherwise was just pulling crap out of his ass on the fly to lead up to it with TPM and AOTC which then shoehorned himself into a lightning fast and awkward turn when Anakin finally had to become Darth Vader.

Abrams and Kasdan had no clear picture of how Rey's story would end and who she was related to (EXACTLY like Luke's situation at the outset of the OT) but at least they knew it'd be another trilogy with a big lineage reveal (or non-reveal in TLJ's case) and them defeating the bad guys in Act III.

It's all the same basic planning/lack of planning. The "aha we now have documented proof of why the ST failed more than any of the previous films!" is just regurgitated blathering of Fandom Menace groupthink. All three trilogies could have benefited from more forethought and some additional rewrites. There's pros and cons to every approach and if there was some universal method for making great films then duh every film that has ever been made would be great, but that isn't the case.

The way I see it most complainers are just piggy backing off the complaints of others without giving much of the complaints any rational thought. The ST that we have as is could have just as easily been the result of one man writing them all in advance and then directing them all himself. As has been pointed out many times there is ample evidence, even if it was pure coincidence in reality, that Rey was a Palpatine all along, especially going off her behavior in her first duel with Kylo on Starkiller Base. Or the mirror cave in TLJ where she asks it to show her who her parents are and she just sees a giant line of Rey "clones," which her grandfather was literally revealed to be. Hell this "make it up as they go" trilogy has less continuity gaffs than the OT!

"No Khev TLJ was clearly directed by a guy who hated TFA and then TROS was clearly directed by a guy who hated TLJ." Whether that's true or not (I don't believe it is) that doesn't mean it would have been any different under Lucas. Look at the number of times he has tried to "fix" previous entries that fans complained about, entries that he himself directed!

"All of TPM hinges on Jar Jar, if we can make him work it'll be great." *TPM is released, fans despise Jar Jar* "Uh, yeah better reduce Jar Jar's screentime to almost nil for Episodes II and III. Same with the midichlorian talk."

LOTR is often elevated (rightly so) as the crowning achievement of planning everything in advance. But even doing so Peter Jackson still couldn't figure out how to include the death of one of the trilogy's *biggest* villains on screen in the theatrical releases! How the hell do you not figure that out? Crazy. And then despite filming the entire Hobbit trilogy at once he still didn't even know what kind of dragon Smaug was going to be (two or four legged) until *after* AUJ was released. Kind of a major detail there.

Because again there's just no sure fire way to plotting a film trilogy when you factor in all the normal real life circumstances (budgets, actor and filmmaker availability, etc.) Yes I do acknowledge that the ST could have benefited from some additional rewrites and restructuring. But let's say that they took an entire extra year to flesh out the entire trilogy in advance and TFA came out Christmas of 2016 instead of 2015 and they then followed George's tradition of releasing a new episode every three years instead of two. Well guess what Carrie wouldn't have even appeared in the second film and the third film would have gone straight to video because of the dumb pandemic. No "plan" is foolproof.

"But I hate the ST and wish they were never made and still wish they did something different because anything would have been better than what we got." Yeah well tough, woulda shoulda coulda, lol. If you don't like the end result then dismiss them from your canon and call it a day.

 

[jal76]

Bottom line is the ST had no plan, was terrible, and a lot of its total awfulness is the result of appearing to have been unplanned.
Even if there was proof that it DID have a plan, which it obviously didn?t, I would knock it for being so poorly put together that it appeared to have been unplanned.
OT didn?t have a very clearly defined plan, but it?s magic comes from the fact that with the exception of a few moments it all APPEARED to have been planned. It was good, coherent, storytelling which is why essentially EVERY Star Wars fan agrees that the OT was good regardless of how they feel about the other two trilogies.
Plan or don?t plan, just make good movies, the folks who made the ST didn?t and that?s why we pick on its lack of planning. If the movies had been great and then I found out that they hadn?t been planned, I wouldn?t care.

 

[Khev]

Plan or don?t plan, just make good movies, the folks who made the ST didn?t and that?s why we pick on its lack of planning. If the movies had been great and then I found out that they hadn?t been planned, I wouldn?t care.

There you go, finally some semblance of an honest and rational critique. You didn't think the movies were "good" so you call out the process in making them as wrong even though they followed the process of arguably the greatest and certainly the most impactful trilogy of all time, even to the point of plotting out their films *more than George plotted out the OT.* That cannot be denied or argued. If you do then you're being willfully obtuse or are just in denial of the facts.

"Whatever the process was all I know is that to my eye it was a mess that appeared to have no fluid structure." And that's a fair, if highly subjective, critique. And I can respect that. Clearly many people share that valid critique. I personally don't because like I said even though I know that Rey's journey wasn't plotted out from the beginning it still *appears* that way to me. I see evidence of her being a Palpatine in all three films so for me the trilogy works just fine.

It's a bit like one scene in the original Terminator that I know for a fact links itself to T2 through sheer coincidence. And that's when the T-800 pulls up to kill the first "Sarah Connor." When he does so he drives over and crushes a toy semi truck that looks almost *exactly* like the one that the T-1000 drives in T2 that is also destroyed by a T-800. That's so cool! And I know that Cameron was in no way putting a little seed of foreshadowing in T1 because at that point he didn't even envision any sequels but it is just such an awesome little happy accident, I love it. And even with the writer and directorial handoff between the ST films I still see those happy little connections all over the place, moreso in fact than even those between OT films. So hardly a valid critique on the supposedly unique "failures" of the ST alone.

 

[ironwez20]

Stop. You don?t see any evidence of her being a palpatine in any of the films. You look for things that aren?t there to make the ST work. You try to make it make sense over and over so you do these crazy back flips to make the movies make sense. It all boils down to just poor writing. That?s it. End of story . There was no evidence of rey being a palpatine or some greater story unfolding . It was a mess that was shat out to get money from the name alone.

Also stop with the OT didn?t have a plan argument. OT was the FIRST. It was building a new world.

ST is a continuation and there is no reason it shouldn?t have had a solid story .

 

[Ropen]

There you go, finally some semblance of an honest and rational critique. You didn't think the movies were "good" so you call out the process in making them as wrong even though they followed the process of arguably the greatest and certainly the most impactful trilogy of all time, even to the point of plotting out their films *more than George plotted out the OT.* That cannot be denied or argued. If you do then you're being willfully obtuse or are just in denial of the facts.

"Whatever the process was all I know is that to my eye it was a mess that appeared to have no fluid structure." And that's a fair, if highly subjective, critique. And I can respect that. Clearly many people share that valid critique. I personally don't because like I said even though I know that Rey's journey wasn't plotted out from the beginning it still *appears* that way to me. I see evidence of her being a Palpatine in all three films so for me the trilogy works just fine.

It's a bit like one scene in the original Terminator that I know for a fact links itself to T2 through sheer coincidence. And that's when the T-800 pulls up to kill the first "Sarah Connor." When he does so he drives over and crushes a toy semi truck that looks almost *exactly* like the one that the T-1000 drives in T2 that is also destroyed by a T-800. That's so cool! And I know that Cameron was in no way putting a little seed of foreshadowing in T1 because at that point he didn't even envision any sequels but it is just such an awesome little happy accident, I love it. And even with the writer and directorial handoff between the ST films I still see those happy little connections all over the place, moreso in fact than even those between OT films. So hardly a valid critique on the supposedly unique "failures" of the ST alone.

I just feel that we don?t need to be all philosophical about it, we could critique these all day, but like Disney clearly has stated when they built Galaxies Edge ?If you build it they will come? they just thought they could sell us their version of Star Wars, what we didn?t know was their monumental plan to retcon and undo everything about the previous films, now it?s obvious they did have that agenda in place, make and create their own IP from scratch to get their merch and guests.

Although Galaxy?s edge was stellar In the theme park industry?s perspective, Disney was not getting the amount of people or fans they expected, now they want to open the starcruiser hotel and the price increase throughout the park and their desperate attempt to dump unsold exclusive park merch on their website proves this.

My biggest complaint is how TF did Directors get fired from these movies(lego film, Colin) when they had no ?plan? then you get Ryan Johnson which he says that they had something in place, but what we got in the Last Jedi was a slap in the face towards The Force Awakens only for Rise of Skywalker to re do The Last Jedi.

TV shows just play it safe, but who knows with Disney supposedly not meeting their estimated numbers for Disney +, corporations and the Church saying we need more kids and that they are worried because they can?t monetize them, lol, I feel it it?s all downhill from here


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