Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[abake]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Guys, you're both addressing the Anakin/Tatooine thing on its own. But my original point was about Kenobi. Wasn't it the PT - not the OT - that made Kenobi the one who decided to hide Luke on Tatooine?

Even if we thought it was a dumb idea (in general) before the prequels, we didn't need to have Obi-Wan be the one who actually came up with the dumb idea in the first place. I only brought it up as one example of how the PT changed OT Kenobi for the worse.

Without the PT, Kenobi could have ended up on Tatooine to protect Luke since he'd know that it was the most obvious place in the galaxy if Vader or the Emperor went looking for him. That would be smart: to make the best of someone else's dumb decision. The PT, however, made it Obi-Wan's dumb decision.

See what I'm saying? Only the PT made Kenobi the one to bring Luke to Tatooine. As I've said before, Luke could have been born there, or brought there by someone else, and Kenobi would have just been making the best of a bad situation by hiding there too in order to help keep Luke safe.

Actually, it was Yoda's idea.

 

[abake]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Yep even the dodgy ROTJ had the wherewithal to have Kenobi simply say "that's why you were hidden when you were born" instead of "that's why I hid you." Of course the PT when out of its way to then make him look like even more of an idiot (even as a ghost) who couldn't remember that he actually was present when both Skywalker children were born.

How so?

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

How so?

Because ESB made it clear that he didn't know that Anakin even had another child until Yoda corrected him while ROTS showed him not only witness Leia's birth and hear her named but also become privy to the fact that she would grow up on Alderaan in the Organa household.

 

[abake]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Obi-wan hadn't even met Owen and Beru. Unless we were to assume he did meet them at some point between movies

Anakin would clearly have told his mentor about his mother's fate. Why on earth would he not? He plainly states "you're the only family I have left", despite his childish temper tantrums, he clearly loves and looks up to his mentor.
And even if he didn't, Padme trusted Obi Wan, she would have told him about the tragedy that befell Anakin's mother.
Assuming that Obi Wan did not know is actually more of a stretch than assuming he did.
Besides... it was Yoda's idea, so Yoda knew, because Anakin told him, so maybe, if -against all odds- neither Anakin nor Padme told Obi Wan, Yoda told him...

Great point! I can only assume that Anakin revealed to Obi-Wan the details of his AOTC trip to Tatooine during their time together before ROTS. But, yeah, I don't remember any on-screen justification for Kenobi knowing about the Lars or their homestead.

Lucas should have had Padme tell Obi-Wan to hide Luke on Tatooine at the end of ROTS. He could have given her a Yoda's-dying-revelation moment: "Obi-Wan . . . hide Luke on Tatooine . . . Anakin . . . hates . . . sand." Eyes close and she dies.

Righto mundo.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I think this is something that should be made. Badly dubbed in lines to make make the prequels no longer have any plot-holes. Would make watching TPM and AOTC fun to watch again without the usual self loathing I feel for having them on.

 

[abake]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I don't really see how it makes any difference.

If your preferred version of Kenobi (untainted by the PT) discovered Luke on Tatooine isn't his decision to hide close by and watch over Luke rather than collect him and hide him some other place just as bad as hiding him there originally? Kind of amounts to the same thing to my mind, either he hides him there (as established in the PT) or he discovers him there (an assumption you've made based on the OT not confirming it either way) and then does nothing with that information to right the poor decision / circumstance which wound up with Luke there in the first place.

In any case I'm more on the side that hiding Luke in plain sight (a place which is filled with bad memories for Vader) with people you can trust (in this case family) is a good idea.

Vader was told by Sidious that he had killed Padme on Mustafar when he force choked her in his anger. When he reached out for her in the force he could no longer feel her which confirmed to him that she was gone. Given that he now believed that she had still been pregnant when she died it seems likely that he assumed that the baby (or babies though it seems Anakin and Padme were oblivious to the fact she was expecting twins) did not make it.

This is given more weight by our knowledge of the OT which establishes that Vader is unable to make the connection with his children through the force seemingly until he knows they exist - until that point in the OT he only perceives that the force is strong with Luke and that Leia had shown extraordinary levels of resistance to their torture techniques. He doesn't recognise them as his children until he makes the Skywalker connection with Luke through their shared surname (that and Obi-wan hanging around him lol) or until he reads Luke's mind in Jedi to discover that Leia is his daughter.

It seems that after he senses Padme is gone be closes himself off from that painful chapter I his life and goes off the deep end fully commiting to the dark side. From the NuCannon so far as I understand, the first time Vader actually sets foot again on Tatooine is after he discovers Luke's identity and is actively searching for him ... So I guess Obi-wan made a good call after all. Which shouldn't be that surprising since he knew Anakin perhaps better than anyone.

Just out of curiosity, is it ever established that the Emperor ever knew Padme was pregnant? Anakin tells him that he needs to prevent her from dying but I can't recall if Sidious knew that they were having a baby? It seems the first the Emperor is aware of the chance of a Skywalker baby is TESB.

Great discussion again everyone.

Great post!

 

[abake]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Obi-wan hadn't even met Owen and Beru. Unless we were to assume he did meet them at some point between movies

That needed to be a meme.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[abake]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Because ESB made it clear that he didn't know that Anakin even had another child until Yoda corrected him while ROTS showed him not only witness Leia's birth and hear her named but also become privy to the fact that she would grow up on Alderaan in the Organa household.

Have to disagree there.
I pointed it out before in some other post, but Obi Wan says "that boy is our last hope", and Yoda replies "no, there is another".
That does not mean Obi Wan is unaware of Leia, it only means he did not think of her as a possible Jedi who could face Vader.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Have to disagree there.
I pointed it out before in some other post, but Obi Wan says "that boy is our last hope", and Yoda replies "no, there is another".
That does not mean Obi Wan is unaware of Leia, it only means he did not think of her as a possible Jedi who could face Vader.

If that were the case then Yoda would have said "no, there is the other" which would have indicated that Yoda was talking about a person that he and Ben were both aware of while still spoiling nothing for the audience. Instead Yoda phrased it in a way that revealed that Ben had no idea who he was talking about in even the vaguest sense.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I think this is something that should be made. Badly dubbed in lines to make make the prequels no longer have any plot-holes. Would make watching TPM and AOTC fun to watch again without the usual self loathing I feel for having them on.

Great idea! Now, how can we fix it so that the PT doesn't turn Leia into a nutcase in ROTJ who describes a biological mother she couldn't possibly remember since she was raised by adoptive parents who both died when Alderaan was destroyed?

How about this? A two-for-one fix:

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Great idea! Now, how can we fix it so that the PT doesn't turn Leia into a nutcase in ROTJ who describes a biological mother she couldn't possibly remember since she was raised by adoptive parents who both died when Alderaan was destroyed?

How about this? A two-for-one fix:

View attachment 422249

"A third woman we must recruit; very beautiful, kind but...sad, to confuse Leia even further in case anyone asks if her real mother she remembers as an adult."

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

"A third woman we must recruit; very beautiful, kind but...sad, to confuse Leia even further in case anyone asks if her real mother she remembers as an adult."

Perfect! Yes, the very specific and exact description that Leia would later use should be incorporated into the SE ROTS dialogue.

And we all know how effective special editions have been at making SW movies better, so let's get crackin' on this.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019



Great stuff.

 

[abake]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

View attachment 422250

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Awesome

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

 

[Bravomite]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Khev you win the internet today haha!

 

[abake]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

If that were the case then Yoda would have said "no, there is the other" which would have indicated that Yoda was talking about a person that he and Ben were both aware of while still spoiling nothing for the audience. Instead Yoda phrased it in a way that revealed that Ben had no idea who he was talking about in even the vaguest sense.

Granted, Yoda could've been more specific, but "there is the other" just sounds awkward, doesn't it?
Also, when Obi Wan says "the Emperor knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any off-spring, they would be a threat to him" right after he tells Luke how they were separated at birth to protect them, it reinforces the notion that Obi Wan knew about both of them(Leia and Luke).