Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019
Bingo. The heroes fall asleep at the wheel practically *enabling* evil to gain a foothold which then instantly materializes in the exact same form it had in the previous war causing possibly more death and destruction the first day they are mobilized than 20 years of Empire rule! All on Han, Luke, and Leia's watch.
They apparently created absolutely nothing that could sustain itself post-ROTJ without the three of them actively involved.
No self-sustaining New Republic spear-headed by Leia. No self-sustaining New Jedi Order created by Luke. Nothing. Just the most fragile house of cards that immediately crumbles at the first sign of trouble scattering our beloved heroes to the four corners of the galaxy. No matter how many ways I've seen those events intellectualized and rationalized, even by myself when my glossy eyed fandom for the new flicks was at a fever pitch,
it still doesn't make such a sequence of events feel like anything but a bitter betrayal of the promise that the ending of ROTJ implied. That's just how I see it.
Well Khev, you certainly have every right to evaluate/scrutinize these movies by whatever standard you choose. And while I disagree with so much of your post, I respect the hell out of how you masterfully analyze and deconstruct SW films. I just want to point out, however, what you're essentially saying here in this case.
You're blaming the ST filmmakers for Luke not building a "self-sustaining New Jedi Order" . . . even though Yoda, Mace, and the entire Jedi Council couldn't do it with a far stronger foundation (and lengthy life experience). Dooku and Anakin both turned under their watch, and the entire Order was extinguished by those who were right under their noses.
And you're blaming the ST filmmakers for not having Leia build a "self-sustaining New Republic" . . . even though the one that had existed for several generations (an ample amount of time to work out any areas of vulnerability) was corrupted from within and completely compromised until it fell apart and gave way to Imperial tyranny.
As far as "betrayal of the promise that the ending of ROTJ implied," I can't help but wonder what promise you specifically interpreted. Given your expectations that I outlined about Luke and Leia, I'm guessing that your answer would be something along the lines of: the galactic peace won in ROTJ should've been invulnerable to being broken by just about anything (as long as Luke and Leia were around to prevent it). A very high standard. Maybe unrealistically and unreasonably high?
I'm fine with new bad guys, new wars, new battles and trials. But I wanted Luke to be an enlightened equal to Yoda like Ben was in the OT, not him back to being a petulant pupil. We got to see Obi-Wan be reckless and headstrong in the PT where he was lectured by Yoda and then grow to become Yoda's contemporary in the OT. I think it was wrong to deny Jedi Master Luke similar (or even greater) stature. Now in the interest of full disclosure while I think that TLJ was "wrong" in the choices it made with Luke I still fully enjoy Mark Hamill's performance and a good many of his scenes just on their own. But as an extension of his character from SW/ESB/ROTJ not as much.
Yoda spent the final 20+ years of his life in self-imposed exile on a swamp planet after having failed to prevent Dooku's turn, Anakin's turn, and Palpatine's power grab. Yoda never did anything proactive from Dagobah during that time while the Empire was destroying lives across the galaxy. At least Luke only exiled himself for a couple of years, and did so in his best effort to recognize his mistakes and atone for them. Then he demonstrated an incredible mastery of the Force that allowed him to still do something pro-active/constructive from the site of his self-imposed exile. You wanted Master Luke to equal or better Master Yoda? I'd argue that he did just that.
I think the threat that appeared in the ST should have been completely set apart from the Empire and one that would have tested the New Jedi Order and Republic over the course of three films, possibly bringing both parties dangerously close to the brink of defeat before the grand legacy of Luke and Leia ultimately prevailed. Not total annihilation of Luke's pupils off screen and between films followed by the wiping out of the ineffectual New Republic at the press of a button. It just no longer sits well with me and unless Episode IX does something magical I don't think it ever truly will.
The conflict in the ST had to have galactic consequences in order to be epic and grand enough to fit with the rest of the saga. You can't merely have some new Sith, or some upstart baddies, come along and immediately pose a galactic threat. At some point, the antagonists would need to mirror the Empire. The SW universe doesn't have the luxury of introducing a Thanos out of nowhere. Different rules.
The one thing that I think the PT did manage to do extremely well was establish how Palpatine *slowly* turned the Republic into the Empire. It took a lot of exposition. It took a 10-year time jump from TPM to AOTC, and another multi-year jump to ROTS. Empires (or any similar galactic threats) aren't built in a day. The most believable way to present that level of threat in the ST is to have someone pick up the remnant pieces of the fallen Empire, and use it to threaten the galaxy with that same (but improved) bag of tricks.
It seems to me that any attempt at a sequel involving the OT heroes was virtually guaranteed to ultimately disappoint you. I don't think there's any way that Ep9 can fare any better for you, so as a fellow lifelong fan I regret that this ST will never sit well with you. At least you got Rogue One to stay psyched about from this Disney era. Oh, and (sigh) Solo.
As with a-dev before you, I thank you for explaining and clarifying your objections.
Much appreciated. Going up against the two of you ain't my preference.
And I still have fond memories of watching TFA and TLJ on the big screen with my kids. That will never go away.
