Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Ropen]

But he still creates great stories. I would still give him a look see. Kennedy’s agenda was her own not one that benefited the Star Wars story.

Kennedy’s agenda blew up in her face and caused the biggest uproar in SW history, everyone on my theater laughed a the trailer for this movie whenever rey jumped the ship, just before watching endgame


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[ajp4mgs]

Please remove KK and Rian. They have imploded Star Wars. Even crappy SW makes money, but think of the money you could make with an actually good SW content. All the Lucasfilm decision makers do not understand SW. Get someone in there that does. Unique and interesting characters/vehicles/plot = huge bank at the box office and merchandising. Time for new ground and new minds. Question is, is SW done? What can you actually make new that hasn't been in books/animated series/films, etc.

More money!? You think these Disney Star Wars would be making *more* money with someone else running the show? Based on what!?

TFA made more domestic gross revenue than any other film in history. Even if you adjust for inflation, only 10 movies have EVER sold more tickets. Everyone has been crapping themselves over how insanely popular Endgame is, right? Well, Endgame probably won't top TFA's domestic record. Yet, you think more money could've been made? So basically, way more than Endgame! Yeah, okay.

And it's not just TFA. TLJ and RO are both in the top 12 all-time domestic. The only reason they're not all in the top 12 globally (only RO isn't, btw) is because China doesn't give a **** about Star Wars. But you think someone else could be making more money with this franchise. Someone who "understands" Star Wars. Someone like . . . George Lucas? I think it's fair to say he understood SW better than anyone.

The ST and RO put way more ***** in seats than the Lucas-led PT (and that's adjusted for inflation, btw). With Lucas in charge, you got three movies in the 30 years between ROTJ and the Disney buyout. That's it!! Three! And not only have the Disney movies brought in bigger audiences, they have received WAY better critical reviews too. In fact, according to Metacritic's aggregate scoring from the top film critics, 2 of the top 4 SW films belong to the ST. Here's their full list:

ANH: 90
TLJ: 85
ESB: 82
TFA: 81
ROTS: 68
RO: 65
Solo: 62
ROTJ: 58
AOTC: 54
TPM: 51

Have you watched Episode 7 or 8? Reality bites.

You know who watched 7 and 8? More people than any other two combined SW movies since ANH. That's right: take *any two* SW movies after ANH, combine the tickets sold (adjusted for inflation), and they still can't touch the ticket sales for 7 and 8. And no two had better combined critical reviews either. That's actual reality. Those are facts, not opinions.

It sucks that you haven't been able to enjoy the new movies. And I mean that sincerely; I'm not being a **** (aka "Richard"). The PT made me feel the same way. But the truth is that no SW since ANH and ESB has been universally accepted by fans as being great. Lucas couldn't do it with ROTJ and the PT, and I doubt that anyone ever will. SW means different things to different people. Pleasing them all is impossible at this point.

 

[Neal136]

That's a fantastic post, ajp4mgs.

 

[xipotec]

Steven Spielberg
Steven Spielberg
Steven Spielberg
Steven Spielberg
Steven Spielberg
Steven Spielberg connections
Steven Spielberg connections
Steven Spielberg connections
Steven Spielberg connections
Steven Spielberg connections
Frank Marshall
Frank Marshall
Frank Marshall
plus 3-4 other films

This is a double edged sword you know,

Because most of the films both these people made were with her.

So who was really in charge here? Its disingenuous to give a single person credit over another. Spielberg has many film, MOST of the with KK. Who is to say how much credit goes to one or the other? Or that one deserves more accolades than another?

If you look at the track record without some agenda hunting bias, you realize she has well and truly earned her place to tun any films she wants.

Blaming her for the perceived failure of the ST (perceived mainly in the minds of older SW fans whom do not want to see a more diverse SW Universe when it comes to their beloved OT story) is crazy and an example of how bias against change and a women in charge is still an issue.

If you do not like the ST thats one thing, but to take away the rightful work and credits given to a person over a lifetime because you do not like the ST is quite another.
(Not singling you out Tali, just seems that post is stripping away credit where credit is due.....

And of course the bandwagon chimed in to support that notion.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Khev]

Blaming her for the perceived failure of the ST (perceived mainly in the minds of older SW fans whom do not want to see a more diverse SW Universe when it comes to their beloved OT story) is crazy and an example of how bias against change and a women in charge is still an issue.

What are you basing this claim on? I ask because the most celebrated Disney SW film, Rogue One, had the most diverse cast of any SW movie and was set during the OT. Not a single white male on Jyn's entire team and "older SW fans" absolutely loved it. But it was also a well written, well paced story with awesome stakes and action, it respected legacy characters like Vader and Tarkin, didn't shove goofy animal rights and/or gender politics into anyone's face nor was the director or any of the writers lashing out with schoolyard insults to anyone who didn't like the film on Twitter.

 

[ArtDamage]

What are you basing this claim on? I ask because the most celebrated Disney SW film, Rogue One, had the most diverse cast of any SW movie and was set during the OT. Not a single white male on Jyn's entire team and "older SW fans" absolutely loved it. But it was also a well written, well paced story with awesome stakes and action, it respected legacy characters like Vader and Tarkin, didn't shove goofy animal rights and/or gender politics into anyone's face nor was the director or any of the writers lashing out with schoolyard insults to anyone who didn't like the film on Twitter.

say it again and louder for the people in the back.

 

[Prime Clone]

More money!? You think these Disney Star Wars would be making *more* money with someone else running the show? Based on what!?

Solo was a shemozzle and bombed. TLJ performed respectably but could have made more if not for the backlash.

I liked that TLJ took risks but it came at a cost, and KK has to own that.

 

[jye4ever]

What was the # 1 movie the year TLJ came out?

 

[greedo737]

What are you basing this claim on? I ask because the most celebrated Disney SW film, Rogue One, had the most diverse cast of any SW movie and was set during the OT. Not a single white male on Jyn's entire team and "older SW fans" absolutely loved it. But it was also a well written, well paced story with awesome stakes and action, it respected legacy characters like Vader and Tarkin, didn't shove goofy animal rights and/or gender politics into anyone's face nor was the director or any of the writers lashing out with schoolyard insults to anyone who didn't like the film on Twitter.

Hell yes. Perfectly said.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Solo was a shemozzle and bombed. TLJ performed respectably but could have made more if not for the backlash.

I liked that TLJ took risks but it came at a cost, and KK has to own that.

My point being, that if someone who "better understands Star Wars" was in charge of the ST, there'd be no one who understands it better than George Lucas. And when GL took his swing at bat (after 16 years, and unreal levels of anticipation), his first two swings (TPM and AOTC) couldn't measure up to TFA and TLJ.

I don't understand how anyone at Disney/LFL can be criticized for outperforming the guy who took his swings when he was still the much-revered Father of Star Wars, and at a time when SW had delivered nothing but OT goodwill.

What was the # 1 movie the year TLJ came out?

 

[jye4ever]

My point being, that if someone who "better understands Star Wars" was in charge of the ST, there'd be no one who understands it better than George Lucas. And when GL took his swing at bat (after 16 years, and unreal levels of anticipation), his first two swings (TPM and AOTC) couldn't measure up to TFA and TLJ.

I don't understand how anyone at Disney/LFL can be criticized for outperforming the guy who took his swings when he was still the much-revered Father of Star Wars, and at a time when SW had delivered nothing but OT goodwill.

I still don’t think it’s a done deal that RJ is out.

He could still either be involved with the HBO dudes or a Disney + show.

Would be very weird for them to fire the guy who directed the # 1 movie of the year, no?

I always thought Hollywood rewarded directors who delivered the # 1 movie of the year.

 

[ajp4mgs]

As much as I'd like to see what RJ would do with a trilogy completely unrelated to the OT, I would totally understand Disney/LFL backing off of him.

Even if they disagree with the negative sentiments that have been put out there about him, and about TLJ, they're caught in a corner. They can't afford to make a huge investment on someone who is a pariah for a large number of fans. They need to make a smart business decision.

The irony for them is that the once-pristine rep of the GoT guys has now been tarnished too. So, maybe they just stick with all of them since there probably aren't many independently-high-profile creators willing to deal with SW levels of backlash anyway. Who knows?

 

[xipotec]

What are you basing this claim on? I ask because the most celebrated Disney SW film, Rogue One, had the most diverse cast of any SW movie and was set during the OT. Not a single white male on Jyn's entire team and "older SW fans" absolutely loved it. But it was also a well written, well paced story with awesome stakes and action, it respected legacy characters like Vader and Tarkin, didn't shove goofy animal rights and/or gender politics into anyone's face nor was the director or any of the writers lashing out with schoolyard insults to anyone who didn't like the film on Twitter.

Actually, there is a good group of folks whom say the only good thing about RO is the last few scenes of Vader, same with Solo. They pick out moments from the film that do not jive with there personal views and that makes it “bad”.

L4 for example.

The boardies here are mostly supportive of RO , much less with Solo,.

The point still stands that most of the folks whom have major issues with ST are older fans. Fans whom didn’t get the OT characters doing the heroic stuff they wanted. I dont think its really a mystery here, its pretty straight forward.

I don’t blame them for their positions , but once you start insinuating that the woman in charge the only person to blame, especially since she is a VERY well respected and accomplished producer, is seriously screwed up. KK , from the start, was going to make SW more accessible to fans whom are not the OT variety.

Its all over the place! Whom do you think came up with that idea? KK all by her lonesome? You think Iger didn’t come up with that? Or support it at least? You think JJ and Rian were also not on board?

But no , all we hear about is KK and its all her fault, and she doesn’t know which end is up....etc etc. I posted the above to remind folks that she is much more accomplished than most producers in history....period. Yet the reply? Nope, she didnt do any of that, she was “riding the coat tails” of others.....

OH BUT WAIT, when something happens that some people call a screw up......Thats all KK , no one else (well maybe Rian , LOL) but Rian is also KK fault. Did we give credit to KK for TFA? Nope thats all JJ.

Its hypocrisy at the highest order.

Sorry guys , we shall have to disagree. Its just a shame to see folks tear someone down for all the things they dislike , then ignore all the other things she had done they like, giving credit to someone else......



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[rushmore223]

Actually, there is a good group of folks whom say the only good thing about RO is the last few scenes of Vader, same with Solo. They pick out moments from the film that do not jive with there personal views and that makes it “bad”.

L4 for example.

The boardies here are mostly supportive of RO , much less with Solo,.

The point still stands that most of the folks whom have major issues with ST are older fans. Fans whom didn’t get the OT characters doing the heroic stuff they wanted. I dont think its really a mystery here, its pretty straight forward.

I don’t blame them for their positions , but once you start insinuating that the woman in charge the only person to blame, especially since she is a VERY well respected and accomplished producer, is seriously screwed up. KK , from the start, was going to make SW more accessible to fans whom are not the OT variety.

Its all over the place! Whom do you think came up with that idea? KK all by her lonesome? You think Iger didn’t come up with that? Or support it at least? You think JJ and Rian were also not on board?

But no , all we hear about is KK and its all her fault, and she doesn’t know which end is up....etc etc. I posted the above to remind folks that she is much more accomplished than most producers in history....period. Yet the reply? Nope, she didnt do any of that, she was “riding the coat tails” of others.....

OH BUT WAIT, when something happens that some people call a screw up......Thats all KK , no one else (well maybe Rian , LOL) but Rian is also KK fault. Did we give credit to KK for TFA? Nope thats all JJ.

Its hypocrisy at the highest order.

Sorry guys , we shall have to disagree. Its just a shame to see folks tear someone down for all the things they dislike , then ignore all the other things she had done they like, giving credit to someone else......



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

I don't think this applies to Khev, but it does apply to several on this board, and I agree 100%

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[abake]

Well, my original point was that regardless of the success -or lack thereof- of the movies, there is a pervasive feeling of SW having suffered as a brand under KK's rule.
And I'm not talking just about TLJ, which, despite its huge box office numbers and positive critical reception, did generate a lot of divisiveness among fans... I'm sure the difficult productions of Rogue One and Solo, with more or less extensive and costly reshoots don't sit well with Higher Management.

Look at it this way:
You have one movie that was well received, was delivered on time, on budget, without any hassles and made a ton of money -TFA.
You have one movie that was well received, went over budget, had extensive re-shoots with a new director, went over budget, and made a ton of money -RO.
You have one movie that was well received by critics but drove a wedge among fans and caused such a disturbance in the Force that Obi Wan would've had to sit down again, was delivered on time, on budget and made a ton of money -TLJ.
You have one movie that was fairly well received, had its directors sacked, went over budget, had massive re-shoots, and didn't make a ton of money.

Now, call me crazy, but from a management point of view, that does not look good. Two messy, costly productions, one flop and losing a lot of goodwill from your most ardent fanbase does not inspire confidence in somebody's abilities to guide such a hugely important franchise.

And going back to KK's accomplishments, her handling of SW only reinforces my perception that she only shines when she's working with top tier directors. Say what you will about JJ; the man knows what he wants and he knows how to deliver. TFA is the only hassle free, money-making, crowd pleasing, overall success of KK's run so far. This is not mean-spirited criticism. Somebody said that people get promoted to the limits of their incompetence. To me it seems that KK was put in charge of the (at the time) biggest franchise in the world and simply wasn't up to the task.

 

[Wor-Gar]

So who was really in charge here? Its disingenuous to give a single person credit over another. Spielberg has many film, MOST of the with KK. Who is to say how much credit goes to one or the other? Or that one deserves more accolades than another?

Oh brother... are you really saying that Kathleen Kennedy might be the genius behind Spielberg?

 

[aussiebottt]

I'll just leave this here......

 

[ironwez20]

Lol this thread is a whole lot of “it’s not so bad. Stars wars sucked under George Lucas so it’s ok if it sucks now. We don’t care if the ST sucks it still made a lot of dough”

 

[xipotec]

Oh brother... are you really saying that Kathleen Kennedy might be the genius behind Spielberg?

LOL no obviously.

But there are folks whom assume KK is untalented and fully to blame for their perceived failure of ST. I used the comparison to try to elucidate those folks whom obviously have an ax to grind with her and seem to think shes a no talent hack or something.

I would also COUNTER argue that a producer that sees huge problems in a production, fires the director and spends massive amounts of money on reshoots and new directors is actually a GOOD producer. No one can see the future , and a lousy producer would just let it fly and come out terrible. A good one would do whats needed to save the film and get the product they wanted out to the public.

Best analogy of a producer from a producer..

“I use a sports analogy,” he said. “The studio or whoever finances the movie is the team owner. The director is the coach. The star is your star athlete. And the producer is the general manager. If you use the Cubs as an example, I’m Theo Epstein. I put it all together, while staying in the background”

List of responsibilities

Conceiving the movie’s premise, or securing the rights to a movie’s source material (a script or book to be adapted or someone’s life rights).

Lining up initial financing.

If there’s no script, hiring a screenwriter to bring the story to life and then working with that writer though a development process, which might mean bringing more writers on to the project.

When the script is ready, hiring the creative team — which includes the director, cast and crew department heads.

Once filming begins, supervising the day-to-day operations on set.

And when the film is in post-production, working with the creative team on that end (editor, composer, visual effects supervisor), as well as people on the business side who are focused on marketing and distributing the movie.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Otomofan]

I forget if it was this thread or another that was comparing AOTC and TLJ. At the time I said, I'd reluctantly choose AOTC over TLK if there was a gun to my head.

Today at work I was bored and rehashing it.

No reluctance. No gun to my head. AOTC, flawed as it is, garbage as it is, is ten times the movie TLJ was. I'd watch AOTC gladly, over and over, before ever subjecting my eye to that abortion of a movie TLJ one more time.

Just had to get that off my chest.