Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[ironwez20]

To show Luke's ambivalence to the Force by showing him do menial and quotidian tasks. It's very deliberate to be depreciative.

Also, it's a sharp contrast to him at the end of the movie when he lives up to the mantle of being Luke Skywalker which was done in an interesting way we've never seen in a SW film before.

This is of course opposed to wish-fulfillment Luke where people think he should have taken down fleets with a flick of a finger, joined Rey with no qualms and used his green saber to cut down fodder made up of a thousand faceless First Order troops which is something I'd expect from an 'Endgame'-like SW movie. I'm glad they didn't.

I don?t think people expected that. They just wanted more

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

But, another spin would be: unlike facing his father, for Luke, the guilt of even thinking about offing his nephew, followed by the guilt of feeling responsible as well for the death of all those other students (a problem with these movies and IW as well - all those little people get wiped out and there's not even a blip to show whether anyone cares or not) might send a great Jedi to solitude. As time goes on, Luke is still unable to know whether having powerful Force wielders are a good thing, or not, and becomes more isolated. (kind've *&^% tho that apparently all that time no handy Force ghost showed up to help Luke) Luke must've been thinking a LOT when he brings up the whole Jedi history of "failure".

(Also, the idea of the super-powerful isolating themselves isn't new- elves in LOTR, sorcerers etc.)

The whole space milk thing was Luke tweaking Rey anyway; he was trying to get her off the Skywalker-legend thing. (Plus, can't argue with excellent meme fodder)

In direct contrast to the younger Kylo, who has no answers to his own great power - but whose answer is to destroy everything. Luke is willing to die to save all, Kylo will kill all, including what he loves (Rey) out of hubris.

Anyway force projection must be a heavy-duty power; like Kylo tells Rey ("you're not doing this, the effort would kill you"). Plus Luke *mysteriously* was projecting physically with Leia already; and then goes out to face Kylo and had to be physical enough to fool his powerful nephew.

Far as I can tell, a huge thing that was unforgivable was Luke not showing up in person, even tho that would have been a kind of re-hash of Obi-Wan and Darth and it was, anyway, to a degree (spectacular visuals tho). So folks are *&^% even tho what Luke did was a lot harder than showing up for the mano a mano thing? And he was able to pass into the Force dimension with a nice nod back to the iconic shot of young Luke with the suns of Tatooine. Which to me was better than total re-hash of Obiwan and Darth. Which ALSO would have been disrespectful ("look, they didn't even respect not to REHASH WTF!!!!")

Not sayin' there aren't *TLJ issues* Poppins Leia but there's enough epic fantasy journey/hero arcs out (where what Luke goes through - including way back to Hercules - isn't that unusual). Whether outraged fans LIKE the treatment - NOT, apparently - well, IMO it's too bad if the rage is gonna stain ANY positivity to ROTJ.

My absolute hatred of TLJ has no effect on my adoration of the whole OT, ROTJ included. It just means I have to ignore that the entire ST exists which does kind of suck because I really did want to like it. I do not subscribe to the idea that the old guard had to be treated like complete garbage to move on with the franchise. If someone without an agenda and also competent like Favreau was in charge from the start i feel we would be in a very different place right now.

 

[YoNoSe]

TLJ Luke to me is like S8 Daenarys. I could believe that they could both get to the place they end up. But I absolutely don’t believe it based on what was presented.

 

[jye4ever]

I honestly think people get exhausted from a constant drone of negativity be it in politics or cinema and probably especially with SW which is supposed to be a feel good adventurous franchise even if that constant drone of negativity is actually in the right.

People are trying to escape negativity from real life not run into at their escape destination.


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[YoNoSe]

I am trying to escape my own SW negativity.

 

[JAWS]

My sentiments as well.

I thought TFA was just fine because they just rehashed the plot of ANH, so they essentially played the safe route while setting up the new characters to be mildly intriguing. TLJ overall I didn?t care for, sans the Luke and Rey parts. With the exception of some scenes, I overall liked Luke?s character arc and it worked for me.

That being said, I think I actually like TFA and TLJ over TPM and AotC when comparing the ST to the PT up to this point. I certainly like individual characters like Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Maul, and Dooku, but I actually find TFA to be more watchable than TPM as a film and I?d actually rather watch TLJ for the Luke and Rey parts than AotC. I found both TPM and AotC to be annoying to watch due to annoying characters like Jar-Jar and young Ani. And of course, a lot of the Anakin and Padme scenes in AotC were downright cringe worthy.

I actually really enjoy most of the first hour of TFA but it all falls apart when they reach the planet that Luke's saber is on.

I was not crazy about the rehash of ANH and the fact that the hero beats the villain in saber to saber combat just ruins the drama of the reset of the series.. Unless you do something really different like turn Rey to the dark side.

TPM has a lot of Nostalgia for me so I have to get past that.. But for me there is still a lot to love and its still my fav film of the PT. Mostly due to it have the best action moments and best characters.. I just tune Jar Jae out.

AOTC and TLJ are neck and neck for the worst films in the series.. But for different reasons.. AOTC is just poorly made overall. But it at least still moves the story forward. But its an awkward film with the worst acting in the series and lacks any really great memorable action.

TLJ is just an insult IMO. While I don't hate Luke and his arc the rest of the film does nothing to progress the story and actually makes much of TFA a waste of time. Its better directed / acted / and looking that AOTC but its overall plot is worse and I dislike Rose more than Jar Jar.. Its not the actresses fault.. Just the part they wrote for her and the plot parts she is involved in.

I still am stuck at only Episode 1 of the Mandalorian and much of this is due to the fact that TLJ and too a lesser extent TFA has ruined my excitement for SW. As bad as they were I could not say that about the PT.

 

[a-dev]

I am trying to escape my own SW negativity.

 

[YoNoSe]

Maybe I can Force project myself into a theater seat until my fandom dies.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Maybe I can Force project myself into a theater seat until my fandom dies.

Nah, force projection doesn't exist. Not in real Star Wars anyway.

 

[SilverStar17]

I actually really enjoy most of the first hour of TFA but it all falls apart when they reach the planet that Luke's saber is on.

I was not crazy about the rehash of ANH and the fact that the hero beats the villain in saber to saber combat just ruins the drama of the reset of the series.. Unless you do something really different like turn Rey to the dark side.

TPM has a lot of Nostalgia for me so I have to get past that.. But for me there is still a lot to love and its still my fav film of the PT. Mostly due to it have the best action moments and best characters.. I just tune Jar Jae out.

AOTC and TLJ are neck and neck for the worst films in the series.. But for different reasons.. AOTC is just poorly made overall. But it at least still moves the story forward. But its an awkward film with the worst acting in the series and lacks any really great memorable action.

TLJ is just an insult IMO. While I don't hate Luke and his arc the rest of the film does nothing to progress the story and actually makes much of TFA a waste of time. Its better directed / acted / and looking that AOTC but its overall plot is worse and I dislike Rose more than Jar Jar.. Its not the actresses fault.. Just the part they wrote for her and the plot parts she is involved in.

I still am stuck at only Episode 1 of the Mandalorian and much of this is due to the fact that TLJ and too a lesser extent TFA has ruined my excitement for SW. As bad as they were I could not say that about the PT.

Oh for sure. Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t like the fact that they rehashed ANH, but at the same time, that to me is what makes it watchable. Like I said, being that they chose the safe route. Given how TLJ went though, I can see why they rehashed the plot of ANH for TFA because they probably didn’t know what else to do, and then got to TLJ knowing they had already used up their “rehash one OT plot almost exactly” card and were forced to have to come up with an original idea of their own that propels the story forward. Hence, why you probably have KK blaming their inability to do so on a “lack of source material.”

And yeah, having Rey best Kylo in saber combat I thought was a huge mistake. I read and hear all the reasons for it, such as Kylo being injured and that Rey was actually running away from him until she tapped into the Force, fair enough, but I just thought having her defeat her adversary for the trilogy so early was a mistake. I can also understand the comparison that people make to Luke with him performing a monumental task like blowing up the Death Star on his first outing by tapping into the Force that he also knew nothing about at the beginning of the film, but he didn’t defeat Vader one on one. I think you could have had Rey demonstrate her Force potential in other huge ways than by her showing her cards so early in the first film and having the main villain look like he’s a scared little child as he lays on the ground and backs away in fear. To me, it just ruined any prospect of ever taking any future Rey-Kylo duel seriously because we already now know she can defeat him easily, even without training. Like you said, unless they do a major plot twist where Palps succeeds in getting her to turn to the Dark Side and convinces her to kill Kylo or something as his revenge against the Skywalkers for Vader turning on him, with Leia then being the one who ends up defeating Palps.

And those are my thoughts exactly with TLJ. I like Luke’s individual character arc, it worked for me, but I think the film itself did a major disservice to the trilogy as an aggregate whole. Outside of Luke and Rey, it essentially just focused on the Resistance trying to outrun the FO before they run out of gas, and Holdo berating any male she could find. Finn I thought regressed as a character from TFA, Rose I thought was a pointless character, Leia I thought was essentially underused and pointless up until the end scene in the bunker, and that entire Canto Bight scene was just laughable.

With the PT, the only film that I can watch from it is RotS. Most people don’t like it, but I actually really liked that one. The other two I can’t sit and watch all the way through. However, I do agree that AotC moves the story along better for the PT than what TLJ does for the ST.

 

[BoosterGold06]

I actually really enjoy most of the first hour of TFA but it all falls apart when they reach the planet that Luke's saber is on.

I was not crazy about the rehash of ANH and the fact that the hero beats the villain in saber to saber combat just ruins the drama of the reset of the series.. Unless you do something really different like turn Rey to the dark side.

TPM has a lot of Nostalgia for me so I have to get past that.. But for me there is still a lot to love and its still my fav film of the PT. Mostly due to it have the best action moments and best characters.. I just tune Jar Jae out.

AOTC and TLJ are neck and neck for the worst films in the series.. But for different reasons.. AOTC is just poorly made overall. But it at least still moves the story forward. But its an awkward film with the worst acting in the series and lacks any really great memorable action.

TLJ is just an insult IMO. While I don't hate Luke and his arc the rest of the film does nothing to progress the story and actually makes much of TFA a waste of time. Its better directed / acted / and looking that AOTC but its overall plot is worse and I dislike Rose more than Jar Jar.. Its not the actresses fault.. Just the part they wrote for her and the plot parts she is involved in.

I still am stuck at only Episode 1 of the Mandalorian and much of this is due to the fact that TLJ and too a lesser extent TFA has ruined my excitement for SW. As bad as they were I could not say that about the PT.

I agree with almost all of this, especially the last part about TLJ ruining your excitement for Star Wars. I have actually never seen The Clone Wars and tried to start watching it, but I just can't get excited about it. Plus I keep waiting for the Mandalorian to start talking about the First Order which should be written out of canon.

The only thing I disagree with is AotC being as bad as TLJ. Yes, the Anakin-Padme stuff is just awkward. But you said it doesn't have any great action scenes? I was so fascinated with Jedis as a kid so to me that battle scene in the arena was so cool. Plus we get to see Yoda wield a saber for the first time!

 

[YoNoSe]

I mean....is there zero chance Palpatine wins?

Because I could get behind that.

 

[SilverStar17]

I mean....is there zero chance Palpatine wins?

Given the title of the film, it seems like a safe bet.

 

[Ropen]

I mean according to Disney he has been winning the last 40 plus something years so yeah who knows hahaha


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[Cocoboloboy]

Yeah, that’s an interesting opinion about the action in AOTC. I actually think fondly of that movie because of the action scenes.

Yoda, the great warrior Luke spoke of in ESB, finally is scene in action. The part where Obi-Wan tries to stop Jango on Kamino. The first time seeing hundreds of Jedi in an all out battle, albeit poorly shot. But most of all again Yoda facing off against Dooku. So much cheering in the theater when he ignited his saber.

AOTC was still my least favorite SW movie of until TLJ came out.

 

[ajp4mgs]

And yeah, having Rey best Kylo in saber combat I thought was a huge mistake. I read and hear all the reasons for it, such as Kylo being injured and that Rey was actually running away from him until she tapped into the Force, fair enough, but I just thought having her defeat her adversary for the trilogy so early was a mistake. I can also understand the comparison that people make to Luke with him performing a monumental task like blowing up the Death Star on his first outing by tapping into the Force that he also knew nothing about at the beginning of the film, but he didn?t defeat Vader one on one. I think you could have had Rey demonstrate her Force potential in other huge ways than by her showing her cards so early in the first film and having the main villain look like he?s a scared little child as he lays on the ground and backs away in fear. To me, it just ruined any prospect of ever taking any future Rey-Kylo duel seriously because we already now know she can defeat him easily, even without training.

They could've still sorta fixed that in Ep9 by just having another duel in Act 1 where Kylo lets her know that there was a reason why he held back. He could then go on to defeat her in that Act 1 duel. It could be as evenly matched as necessary, but still have Kylo show more proficiency than Rey.

Obviously, he wouldn't be able to kill her. So, you could set up a killshot that gets interrupted by Rey's Resistance pals. Something like Chewie and Finn blasting away at Kylo to keep him distracted enough while the others rescue Rey before flying away. Or whatever other easily-constructed rescue and getaway.

Rey would be humbled, and doubting herself. Along comes ghost Luke (or whomever) to remind her that even being chosen by the Force doesn't mean it's going to be easy to win (a bit of meta acknowledgment for the Mary Sue argument). Then Act 3 could have a final duel with a bit more of a question as to how that would play out.

But in TROS, it seems that Rey is going to win every time. Palpatine is supposed to be the one to challenge Rey. But beating him will only diminish Anakin and Luke, after having Kylo diminished at the end of TFA. I think it's just doubling (tripling?) down on the Rey problem.

 

[dan350zr]

Watching the latest teaser trailer for Rise of Skywalker Disney is going hardcore at the nostalgia angle to try and get people to see this movie...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/ne...-decades-of-the-star-wars-universe/ar-BBXwMkr

 

[Ropen]

yeah because they thought the audiences would gobble it up when it fact people love the OT stuff and are having a hard time connecting the FO with the new audiences


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[TaliBane]

Talibane you will be on your knights of the round table noble pursuit until your very last breath because the corporate studio system isn?t going anywhere.

IP branding, licensing and merchandising is here to stay and by all estimates will continue to be agenda driven by most studios.

I?m afraid your fantasy of cinema purity that speaks only to your truths and adheres to only your beliefs will lead you down a very lonely path.

I hope you loved Joker you could watch that 24/7 lol

For me I got my tickets for IX walking in ready to judge it from a clean emotional slate.

I wish you well on your journey Sir Lancelotalibane may you come upon the holy grail in a years age and cleanse Hollywood of its corporate profit driven agenda filth.




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"I tried, you know? But that's not cinema. Honestly, the closest I can think of them, as well made as they are, with actors doing the best they can under the circumstances, is theme parks."

 

[Sassafras]

They could've still sorta fixed that in Ep9 by just having another duel in Act 1 where Kylo lets her know that there was a reason why he held back. He could then go on to defeat her in that Act 1 duel. It could be as evenly matched as necessary, but still have Kylo show more proficiency than Rey.

Obviously, he wouldn't be able to kill her. So, you could set up a killshot that gets interrupted by Rey's Resistance pals. Something like Chewie and Finn blasting away at Kylo to keep him distracted enough while the others rescue Rey before flying away. Or whatever other easily-constructed rescue and getaway.

Rey would be humbled, and doubting herself. Along comes ghost Luke (or whomever) to remind her that even being chosen by the Force doesn't mean it's going to be easy to win (a bit of meta acknowledgment for the Mary Sue argument). Then Act 3 could have a final duel with a bit more of a question as to how that would play out.

But in TROS, it seems that Rey is going to win every time. Palpatine is supposed to be the one to challenge Rey. But beating him will only diminish Anakin and Luke, after having Kylo diminished at the end of TFA. I think it's just doubling (tripling?) down on the Rey problem.

Wow this is pretty good IMO. Even tho am more easy-going about it than some, IMO in TFA it was always *^%$ writing to bring Rey along too much, too fast. Even wounded, beating Kylo is ridiculous. Suddenly getting re-inforced from the Force into a kick-*** fighter is also ridiculous - sure, she's scrappy, but I hafta assume that Kylo trained for years. They could've just had Rey draw on her power and sloppily drop trees and crack the ground or something - e.g. she's strong but untrained, so in theory being able to focus the Force would be sloppy and uneven too.

Agree with Ferguson about agenda contamination. Equals &^%$ writing. Kind've a bummer for me 'coz I remember all the *frenzy* and buzz and bickering over Kylo's cross guard saber. That to me is when fandom is fun. At least when TFA starts, the character is ominous, powerful. A worthy successor to Vader but the twist was being volatile, and Kylo clearly has issues. It was different.

Now I gotta go into TROS figuring - at least from the trailers - that any epic clash I might've imagined between Kylo and Rey is already done zzzzzzz. LOL it even annoys me that CP3O is having this poignant moment about looking at his friends - why? R2D2 is the only one left I'd hand a moment like that, or Chewie. He's got no history with these people!

But, hope to avoid spoilers - willing to see what Abrams comes up with - probably something OK. OK-ish. It's too late for anything else.