Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[xipotec]

I was watching the movies on TNT today and there was an aspect about Vader established very early on that just disappears later. I think Lucas needs to retcon. I can hear it now:


ANH: Vader seeing Luke and the gang escape the Death Star -- Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

ANH: Vader's ship is hit out of the trench and sent spinning into space -- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

ESB: Vader enters the ice hanger just as the Millennial Falcon jets away in escape -- Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!

ESB: Vader watching Luke fall from the gantry -- Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

ESB: Lando at the wheel, with assist from R2, jump into hyperspace as Vader watches -- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Rogue One: Vader watches the Tantive IV jet away with the stolen plans -- No-No-Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!


Finally, Vader is a cohesive character.

This really should go in the Positivity Thread

This needs to be made now....


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[The Buffinator]

Transferring this discussion from The Mando thread...

You mean me... or NASA?

And onscreen it kinda looks like "the death star" exploded. Like - core, throne room - the whole lot. Simultanenously. Right? That's what is onscreen I mean. The way you're describing it, there's just some explosions deep inside "the middle" and that's about it. It's core, then one second later, whole thing.

And I'm not sure how paralleling a moon-sized space station blowing up in space - with a blast diameter of 15 miles (with heat/force beyond comprehension) - is in any way related to a small heat-shielded craft (specifically designed to handle re-entry temperature btw) that broke up within the earth's atmosphere, spreading parts like an aircraft would break up at high altitude.

The temps of a sun-level explosion, even a nuclear blast, are hundreds of times greater than re-entry temps.

It's not even like Palpatine's office was embedded deep in the DS superstructure (so perhaps partly shielded by heavy-duty parts around it) - it was situated outside, this thin, small exposed tower where it would have been vaporized in the first second.

I guess this just comes down to the stuff that people can believe. It's such a stupid-bizarre leap to me, showing this barely damaged room with intact chair and window with unbroken panes of glass after having seen it in the middle of a 15 mile diameter explsoion (that would be like the sun's heat and ferocity) but I guess some just buy it, so...

Now we're getting somewhere. Cause this is interesting.

How you compare ROTJ and this exactly I have no idea but I guess given the "reactor core" thing we can call the ROTJ blast "nuclear." Hiroshima was a baby - 1 mile. The blast on DSII was around 15-20 miles (judging by the DS diameter) so hundreds of times larger by volume than Hiroshima.

The Russians later did nuclear blasts that size. They turned rock into ash even though they were detonated at a couple of miles up. That's more what we are talking about here in ROTJ - a blast that would turn rock and steel to powder.

Those Russian blasts were THOUSANDS of times more powerful than Hiroshima, a blast which left buildings standing, and was actually only a few times more powerful than the biggest non-nuclear explosions.

The Challenger space shuttle didn't explode, and Hiroshima was VERY small and weak for a nuclear blast - so hard to use these as comps for that massive ROTJ "nuclear" explosion.

To me you have to keep coming back to what you see on screen in ROTJ: not large chunks of superstructure breaking free as explosions tear it up, but a single massive detonation that totally consumes and atomizes the whole structure.

I agree 100% with you regarding what the DS's explosion looked like on-screen in ROTJ. It definitely looked completely atomized. Where I lose you is when you explain it as a sun-level or nuclear explosion that would instantly vaporize the throne room on the DS's surface. An explosive force of that speed and power isn't going to simply dissipate a few hundred meters from the surface. It would have consumed the ship that Luke & Anakin were on as well as those of Lando and the other rebels emerging from the superstructure. As you've obviously granted some creative license to the OT creators in regard to their application of scientific laws (I'm assuming you were OK with Luke & Lando surviving ), it seems rather hypocritical to adamantly refuse to do so in the case of TROS. Let's face it - they had the DS explode that way because it looked cool, but they didn't do the math.

 

[YoNoSe]

It would have been funny (eventually) if the Endor heroes saw the explosion and cheered and then it went full blown Judgement Day.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

It would have been funny (eventually) if the Endor heroes saw the explosion and cheered and then it went full blown Judgement Day.

The next Star Wars "movie" could be a documentary style commentary highlighting the Endor space debris and covering the evils of war, the impact it has had on the climate local and beyond, and the lasting effects and hardships endured by the Ewoks and other inhabitants. Narrated by(you guessed it) Rose Tico.

 

[Spartan Rex]

 

[ZE_501]

It would have been funny (eventually) if the Endor heroes saw the explosion and cheered and then it went full blown Judgement Day.

The next Star Wars "movie" could be a documentary style commentary highlighting the Endor space debris and covering the evils of war, the impact it has had on the climate local and beyond, and the lasting effects and hardships endured by the Ewoks and other inhabitants. Narrated by(you guessed it) Rose Tico.

There was a guy who wrote detailed extrapolations of what we saw on-screen ... "Star Wars Technical Commentaries" ... I think it was called. Lots of math and science behind it.

In these commentaries the DS2's destruction was said to have utterly destroyed the forest moon's ecosystem and rendered it uninhabitable. The thought process behind it was that the New Republic would have covered it up and some Ewoks (based on EU stuff) presumably made it off-world. The 'fireworks' seen during the celebration were rebel fighters shooting flaming chunks of debris out of the sky to protect the Ewok village prior to evacuation.

And you thought *we* had too much time on our hands...

 

[abake]

I'm in the camp of "it makes no sense that any debris of the Death Star survived the explosion".
The thing was just vaporised, there isn't even a hint of debris flying anywhere, if I remember correctly. But, who cares, nothing really makes much sense in the ST anyway...
I say bring it on! I'm sure that no matter how silly the whole thing is, JJ will at least make it a watchable movie.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]they didn't do the math.

There is no math in Star Wars.

 

[YoNoSe]

In space no one can hear you do long division.

 

[abake]

I was nauseated by the time he said "nauseating feminist turn"...

 

[ajp4mgs]

That reminds me, how do you explain the FO not being able to catch the Resistance fleet, but Finn and Rose being able to fly across the galaxy and back, attempting a mission along the way?

Maybe RJ thinks light-speed is time travel? His time logic in Looper was pretty bad.

Well, first of all, lightspeed *is* time travel. If you're travelling at the speed of light, time is elapsing at a much slower rate than it is for those who are moving at sublight speeds. And, when travelling beyond lightspeed (which is what happens through hyperspace), that is *literally* travelling through time according to Einstein's principles of spacetime. You can get back with virtually no time having passed for the FO and Raddus crews.

Secondly, the logistics of the Canto Bight excursion are far simpler without even factoring time travel. If you're being chased from Mexico to Canada in a straight line with vehicles that will be going 100 mph, it'll take you about 23 hours to go from border to border. But if your buddy leaves from the same starting spot in a vehicle that can go 5,000 mph, he'll have time to go to Atlantic City (to play slot machines, ride horses, and lecture people) for several hours and still be able to meet up with you well before you reach the Canadian border.

Lastly, the term "lightspeed" in SW contexts is a misnomer. Hyperspace *has to* involve going well beyond the speed of light. All the way back in ANH, there's no way that the Falcon could go from an Outer Rim planet of Tatooine to a Core World of Alderaan in mere hours. At lightspeed, a trip across that much of the galaxy would still take months (more likely, years!). The only way that hyperspace makes any sense at all is if it creates a "folding" of spacetime where distances in space are contracted (like a wormhole).

NASA launched a spacecraft to Pluto (called "New Horizons") in 2006. It took *10 years* to get there while travelling at a little more than 30,000 mph. That same voyage would only take roughly 4.5 hours at lightspeed. In SW, it would've been an even shorter trip through hyperspace.

Sorry for nerding out . . . but that's what I do. Hope it helped.

 

[ZE_501]

I was nauseated by the time he said "nauseating feminist turn"...

I turned it off within 3 seconds of hearing him talk. Way too annoying. Don't know why the default setting on YouTube appears to be "Snark" but where I come from guys like that don't do so well...anywhere.

 

[abake]

Well, first of all, lightspeed *is* time travel. If you're travelling at the speed of light, time is elapsing at a much slower rate than it is for those who are moving at sublight speeds. And, when travelling beyond lightspeed (which is what happens through hyperspace), that is *literally* travelling through time according to Einstein's principles of spacetime. You can get back with virtually no time having passed for the FO and Raddus crews.

Secondly, the logistics of the Canto Bight excursion are far simpler without even factoring time travel. If you're being chased from Mexico to Canada in a straight line with vehicles that will be going 100 mph, it'll take you about 23 hours to go from border to border. But if your buddy leaves from the same starting spot in a vehicle that can go 5,000 mph, he'll have time to go to Atlantic City (to play slot machines, ride horses, and lecture people) for several hours and still be able to meet up with you well before you reach the Canadian border.

Lastly, the term "lightspeed" in SW contexts is a misnomer. Hyperspace *has to* involve going well beyond the speed of light. All the way back in ANH, there's no way that the Falcon could go from an Outer Rim planet of Tatooine to a Core World of Alderaan in mere hours. At lightspeed, a trip across that much of the galaxy would still take months (more likely, years!). The only way that hyperspace makes any sense at all is if it creates a "folding" of spacetime where distances in space are contracted (like a wormhole).

NASA launched a spacecraft to Pluto (called "New Horizons") in 2006. It took *10 years* to get there while travelling at a little more than 30,000 mph. That same voyage would only take roughly 4.5 hours at lightspeed. In SW, it would've been an even shorter trip through hyperspace.

Sorry for nerding out . . . but that's what I do. Hope it helped.

Nothing to do with lightspeed, but I think you might enjoy this:


Are We Sure the Jedi Are Good? https://flip.it/JGKwPV

It?s a good read.


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[ajp4mgs]

Nothing to do with lightspeed, but I think you might enjoy this:


Are We Sure the Jedi Are Good? https://flip.it/JGKwPV

It?s a good read.


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That was an excellent read! Thank you very much for the link, my friend.

I think it's fair to characterize the Jedi of the PT as having lost their way. That seems intentional to me on the part of George Lucas. As the article states, he even wanted to perhaps eventually touch on the grey-area ambiguities of good and evil. And I think TLJ did well in effectively delving into that (but I know, I know: folks like you disagree with me).

Here's where we all might be able to agree, as it pertains to the article: any Jedi Order in the future would be better off by learning from the failures that led to their demise. This is a basic concept that is true of all institutions that fail. Hopefully, JJ can end the saga with some hint that the message has been received, and that all of the toils and suffering from PT, to OT, to ST will lead to a better way forward (at least in-universe, that is).

 

[YoNoSe]

Well, first of all, lightspeed *is* time travel. If you're travelling at the speed of light, time is elapsing at a much slower rate than it is for those who are moving at sublight speeds. And, when travelling beyond lightspeed (which is what happens through hyperspace), that is *literally* travelling through time according to Einstein's principles of spacetime. You can get back with virtually no time having passed for the FO and Raddus crews.

Secondly, the logistics of the Canto Bight excursion are far simpler without even factoring time travel. If you're being chased from Mexico to Canada in a straight line with vehicles that will be going 100 mph, it'll take you about 23 hours to go from border to border. But if your buddy leaves from the same starting spot in a vehicle that can go 5,000 mph, he'll have time to go to Atlantic City (to play slot machines, ride horses, and lecture people) for several hours and still be able to meet up with you well before you reach the Canadian border.

Lastly, the term "lightspeed" in SW contexts is a misnomer. Hyperspace *has to* involve going well beyond the speed of light. All the way back in ANH, there's no way that the Falcon could go from an Outer Rim planet of Tatooine to a Core World of Alderaan in mere hours. At lightspeed, a trip across that much of the galaxy would still take months (more likely, years!). The only way that hyperspace makes any sense at all is if it creates a "folding" of spacetime where distances in space are contracted (like a wormhole).

NASA launched a spacecraft to Pluto (called "New Horizons") in 2006. It took *10 years* to get there while travelling at a little more than 30,000 mph. That same voyage would only take roughly 4.5 hours at lightspeed. In SW, it would've been an even shorter trip through hyperspace.

Sorry for nerding out . . . but that's what I do. Hope it helped.

It is funny how we take the term lightspeed to mean nearly-instant travel. But of course within SW we’re dealing with SW-lightspeed, which just meeds to seem consistently fast.

I think at this point most of us in the “nay” camp just cringe at the words Canto Bight. I was mildly unhappy hearing it mentioned on the Mandalorian.

But your nerd-out gets a thumbs up from me.

 

[ajp4mgs]

It is funny how we take the term lightspeed to mean nearly-instant travel. But of course within SW we?re dealing with SW-lightspeed, which just meeds to seem consistently fast.

I think at this point most of us in the ?nay? camp just cringe at the words Canto Bight. I was mildly unhappy hearing it mentioned on the Mandalorian.

But your nerd-out gets a thumbs up from me.

Thanks.

I actually have a similar aversion to Canto Bight for many reasons, so I can relate on at least some level. The times when I don't just skip those scenes, it's hard not to find myself wondering, "what the **** am I watching!?"

Oh well, that's what the "skip" button is for on the remote.

 

[SilverStar17]

I like the concept of Canto Bight, as I can see a gaming mecca like that existing in the SW universe. Seems like a place where Lando would have frequented. However, I think what makes us cringe at the mention of it is the film you associate it with, since that’s when it was first introduced.

 

[ZE_501]

I like the concept of Canto Bight, as I can see a gaming mecca like that existing in the SW universe. Seems like a place where Lando would have frequented. However, I think what makes us cringe at the mention of it is the film you associate it with, since that?s when it was first introduced.

Those first photos of Canto Bight and snazzy aliens were actually quite intriguing.

The execution failed for me, not necessarily the idea, although when I saw the photos I looked at the formal-wear and was thinking more along the lines of a fancy political scene rather than a casino.


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[xipotec]

I'm in the camp of "it makes no sense that any debris of the Death Star survived the explosion".
The thing was just vaporised, there isn't even a hint of debris flying anywhere, if I remember correctly. But, who cares, nothing really makes much sense in the ST anyway...
I say bring it on! I'm sure that no matter how silly the whole thing is, JJ will at least make it a watchable movie.

Except there is.

See all those chunks?

I mean I GET the argument , that its stupid to have that section intact...

But its clearly shown there are large burning parts in that explosion.

So to argue that there is not way any pieces fell to Endor is disingenuous. It was clearly not vaporized, this picture clearly show large meteor like pieces. Our planet has meteors making it through the atmosphere daily, made of nothin more special than iron.

This nitpicking is just the same as the awful ?10 things wrong with X? videos on Youtube.

Hate the plot , hate the characters, hate the acting, directing and script all you want.

But these silly nitpicks are nothing more than a validation attempt of an opinion thats subjective.





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[ZE_501]

For those of you that really want to go there:

https://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html


Some brief excerpts:


*"What happens when you detonate a spherical metal honeycomb over five hundred miles wide just above the atmosphere of a habitable world? Regardless of specifics, the world won't remain habitable for long."

**"This document does not advocate or condone the extinction or betrayal of ewoks, it merely reports upon a physical situation and the acts involved.

The circumstances at the end of Return of the Jedi lead inevitably to an environmental disaster on the Endor moon. The explosion of a small artificial moon in low orbit sends a meteoric rain onto the ewok sanctuary, on a scale unmatched since Endor formed. Through either direct atmospheric injection of small particles, or showers of ejecta from large impacts, the atmosphere will be filled with smoke and fallout causing a gargantuan nuclear-winter effect."

***"Observations of the morphology and kinematics of the explosion suggest that a combination of fine and coarse effects were experienced. The larger pieces are representated by at least fourteen fragments each a few tens of kilometres wide, seen hurtling down towards the moon's atmosphere. An explosive ring of plasma, erupting from the battle station's equator, will strike the moon within seconds, though it is unknown how much actual substance this phenomenon contains. The rest of the debris lacks discernable structure and seems to be fine."


Been years since I read this.