Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Getter Dragon]

Should be called the ?Palpatine Saga?, no??

Lucasfilm really bungled the title of this film; it should have been called The Rise of Palpatine.

There are lots of reasons for people to hate the ST, but for me it's the complete negation of the previous trilogies. The Skywalker family is all dead, lasted like 3 people and accomplished absolutely nothing over this "saga". Palpatine was behind it all and it took another Palpatine to defeat him. Vader and Luke were never the chosen ones Windu talked about - that was Rey Palps, they didn't bring balance to the force - Rey Palps did, or defeat the evil Empire for good as that was also Rey Palps. Why did Plagueis even bother to make Anakin when Palp's granddaughter was gonna take care of everything with ZERO effort? TLJ broke SW lore, but TROS broke everything Lucas ever wrote. I wish I could live in the same self-delusion apologists for these movies wallow in.

Now it's not all bad though, other than Babu, I loved all the subtle middle fingers this movie gave Ruin Johnson and TLJ.

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[Asta]

Lucasfilm really bungled the title of this film; it should have been called The Rise of Palpatine.

There are lots of reasons for people to hate the ST, but for me it's the complete negation of the previous trilogies. The Skywalker family is all dead, lasted like 3 people and accomplished absolutely nothing over this "saga". Palpatine was behind it all and it took another Palpatine to defeat him. Vader and Luke were never the chosen ones Windu talked about - that was Rey Palps, they didn't bring balance to the force - Rey Palps did, or defeat the evil Empire for good as that was also Rey Palps. Why did Plagueis even bother to make Anakin when Palp's granddaughter was gonna take care of everything with ZERO effort? TLJ broke SW lore, but TROS broke everything Lucas ever wrote. I wish I could live in the same self-delusion apologists for these movies wallow in.

Yes, yes, and yes.

The Sequels missed a trick by abandoning the stories that had already been written: the children of Han and Leia - Jacen, Jaina and Anakin.

Instead they jumped straight to this strange Kylo offspring who's already evil when TFA begins. And his opponent is a super-powered newcomer who's unaware of her origins. Uncle Luke is sequestered away, and then killed off.

The ST becomes much like a clean break from the PT and OT. It's an off-shoot that finalises things only by relating the deaths of Han, Leia and Luke. It's pretty depressing really, like reading the Appendices to Lord of the Rings.

 

[Asta]

Simply saving his son? That would be a huge deal right there for anyone who is a parent.

Also, even though Palpatine survived, Vader put Palpatine’s plans off long enough for Rey to finally destroy him. So not neutered at all. In fact a rather vital part of the story.

The upshot of Vader's actions is that he made Palpatine much more powerful, which was what Obi-Wan once taunted Vader with.

The writers kill off Luke because he's not going to be much use against the super-powered Palpatine, after all Luke is just a Skywalker.

It takes a super-powered Palpatine to kill a super-powered Palpatine. The Skywalker saga was literally hijacked.

 

[a-dev]

The Rise of Skywalker is a bait and switch title, since it was actually the rise of Rey Palpatine. She simply sees herself as the heir to the Skywalker legacy, since the Skywalkers are dead.

It's sorta reminding me of this

 

[jye4ever]

Looking at a 190-200 opening but only B+ cinemascore.

Lowest opening of the ST.

Lowest Cinemascore of the ST.

Yet best movie of the ST lol

Yay Media.

Yay SW fans.

Yay lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Asta]

I haven't read the books with Jacen, Jaina and Anakin (assuming a child of Han and Leia). Did they ever explore the issues of the Sith rising from right under the Jedi's noses? Did they explore a force that is more powerful than a planet killer? Or talk about the importance of learning from our mistakes and passing that on? If so, they may have been great additions. If not, what would they have truly added to the Saga?

I don't remember all the stories. It was long ago, but they were an established part of the EU. Jacen ended up as Darth Caedus, so he would've been the Kylo Ren character.

But it would've meant that the Skywalker family would still have been central, with their mentor, Uncle Luke.

The Rey story line is a massive tangent, and also misdirection because there was all that speculation over who she was. I still feel it detracts from the two preceding trilogies.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I don?t understand the complaint either I completely saw it that Kylo could not heal and did not heal her in the way Rey could what happened was that the Force allowed him to exchange his life force for hers.

He healed her but he had to give up his life to do so.

But the sacrifice doesn't justify him having the ability to resurrect someone from the dead. This power burns previous Star Wars to the ground. You don't think Anakin would've made the same sacrifice for his mother? Or Luke for his father at the end of ROTJ? Maybe even Obi-Wan for Qui-Gon?

If exchanging "Life Force" can resurrect a dead person, and Force users seemingly have an instinct for how to do it, Anakin's entire fall to the dark side has just been completely undermined. I'm talking totally **** on.

At first like Wor-Gar I also questioned why Palpatine did not damage Rey by sucking her life force out of her but she was damaged and died soon after the ordeal was over.

Palpatine drained the force from her before she killed him. She went on to fight off a guy who had just lightning-attacked miles worth of starships! And after having his force drained, Kylo got thrown into a pit . . . and then climbed out . . . and still had enough force left to BRING SOMEONE BACK TO LIFE!

None of this makes any sense at all. Palpatine drains the force from two people so that he can become the most powerful Sith in history. But the force drain leaves Rey strong enough to kill him, and leaves Kylo strong enough to bring someone back from the dead. But when Kylo drains himself, it kills him. But Rey can drain enough of herself to heal Kylo without any repercussions.

The rules are all over the place. And I still wouldn't really have a problem with that if these new Force powers didn't completely mess with critical OT and PT plot points. Now everything that those movies were centered around is called into question. If you can just suck "life force" out of someone to make yourself more powerful, why didn't Vader eventually return his body back to the health he had as Anakin? Why didn't Palpatine just do that to Luke in order to get even stronger? Or do it to Yoda?

A mess. If JJ had introduced a new Force power where Jedi could fart Force bubbles that incapacitate opponents, it'd be less of a problem. But he went with the one power that can undermine the key events of GL's episodes.

 

[The Buffinator]

For those ripping JJ for resurrecting Palpatine, I think their anger is misplaced. When Rian killed off the presumed big bad (Snoke) as well as Luke in the second movie of the trilogy, IMO he really boxed JJ into a corner. We'd already seen that Kylo wasn't viewed by the general public as that formidable of an adversary, so having Rey face off vs. him in the climax of the ST yet again would have been well, anti-climactic. I suppose KK is ultimately responsible if blame need to be placed, but I'm not sure how another writer/director would have upped the ante after Snoke was gone. I'd really be interested to hear where Rian thought they could go next - if he gave that any thought at all.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - May 24, 2019

Four more hours!

 

[a-dev]

But the sacrifice doesn't justify him having the ability to resurrect someone from the dead. This power burns previous Star Wars to the ground. You don't think Anakin would've made the same sacrifice for his mother? Or Luke for his father at the end of ROTJ? Maybe even Obi-Wan for Qui-Gon?

If exchanging "Life Force" can resurrect a dead person, and Force users seemingly have an instinct for how to do it, Anakin's entire fall to the dark side has just been completely undermined. I'm talking totally **** on.



Palpatine drained the force from her before she killed him. She went on to fight off a guy who had just lightning-attacked miles worth of starships! And after having his force drained, Kylo got thrown into a pit . . . and then climbed out . . . and still had enough force left to BRING SOMEONE BACK TO LIFE!

None of this makes any sense at all. Palpatine drains the force from two people so that he can become the most powerful Sith in history. But the force drain leaves Rey strong enough to kill him, and leaves Kylo strong enough to bring someone back from the dead. But when Kylo drains himself, it kills him. But Rey can drain enough of herself to heal Kylo without any repercussions.

The rules are all over the place. And I still wouldn't really have a problem with that if these new Force powers didn't completely mess with critical OT and PT plot points. Now everything that those movies were centered around is called into question. If you can just suck "life force" out of someone to make yourself more powerful, why didn't Vader eventually return his body back to the health he had as Anakin? Why didn't Palpatine just do that to Luke in order to get even stronger? Or do it to Yoda?

A mess. If JJ had introduced a new Force power where Jedi could fart Force bubbles that incapacitate opponents, it'd be less of a problem. But he went with the one power that can undermine the key events of GL's episodes.

JJ strikes the franchise down with all of his nonsense ideas and the ST's journey into non-canon is complete.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

That's a terrible analogy, since the two wars were completely different, and the second directly stemmed from the way in which the first was finalised.

But I'm sure what the Clown Prince is referencing is that Vader's redemption is neutered, reduced to simply saving his son. Palpatine didn't die, he merely became more powerful and continued to work from the shadows as was his former modus operandi. The Empire might've become a Remnant force but it grew into the First Order, and so the cycle continues.

This is what Star Wars does though. It's in the serial nature of its origins - if you destroy a threat you must replace it, or else there's no more wars among the stars.

I'd have liked the Sequels to have eliminated the Supergirl Rey character and the Teen Tantrum Kylo character. Put a mature Luke into the Rey role, and an emergent Sith into the Kylo role, with Thrawn and the Remnant replacing the First Order.

The Rise of Skywalker is a bait and switch title, since it was actually the rise of Rey Palpatine. She simply sees herself as the heir to the Skywalker legacy, since the Skywalkers are dead.

The upshot of Vader's actions is that he made Palpatine much more powerful, which was what Obi-Wan once taunted Vader with.

The writers kill off Luke because he's not going to be much use against the super-powered Palpatine, after all Luke is just a Skywalker.

It takes a super-powered Palpatine to kill a super-powered Palpatine. The Skywalker saga was literally hijacked.

Anakin/Vade not being the chosen one really sucks.

The Skywalkers are a bunch of nobodies in their own saga, what a great ending.

 

[Asta]

Simply saving his son? That would be a huge deal right there for anyone who is a parent. Hardly neutered.

For those ripping JJ for resurrecting Palpatine, I think their anger is misplaced. When Rian killed off the presumed big bad (Snoke) as well as Luke in the second movie of the trilogy, IMO he really boxed JJ into a corner. We'd already seen that Kylo wasn't viewed by the general public as that formidable of an adversary, so having Rey face off vs. him in the climax of the ST yet again would have been well, anti-climactic. I suppose KK is ultimately responsible if blame need to be placed, but I'm not sure how another writer/director would have upped the ante after Snoke was gone. I'd really be interested to hear where Rian thought they could go next - if he gave that any thought at all.

The Dark Empire trilogy had an Emperor using clone bodies, so there's nothing essentially wrong with the idea.

However, that trilogy had Luke Skywalker as a major player. Therefore, Vader redeeming himself by saving his son is more than just a family matter since Luke is alive to tackle Palpatine. The ST has Luke isolating himself because he sees himself as a danger and a failure.

Throw in Darth Caedus/Jacen, Jaina and Anakin and you have a proper continuation of the Skywalker saga, rather than a trilogy that focused much more on Rey Palpatine.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I went to the bar last night and Attack of the Clones was on.

Were you trying to sell Death Sticks?

 

[ajp4mgs]

For those ripping JJ for resurrecting Palpatine, I think their anger is misplaced. When Rian killed off the presumed big bad (Snoke) as well as Luke in the second movie of the trilogy, IMO he really boxed JJ into a corner. We'd already seen that Kylo wasn't viewed by the general public as that formidable of an adversary, so having Rey face off vs. him in the climax of the ST yet again would have been well, anti-climactic. I suppose KK is ultimately responsible if blame need to be placed, but I'm not sure how another writer/director would have upped the ante after Snoke was gone. I'd really be interested to hear where Rian thought they could go next - if he gave that any thought at all.

I'm still totally baffled by this argument, and it keeps getting repeated. What Rian did was take a trilogy that was on a trajectory to be a total OT ripoff (the one that is supposed to be the final trilogy in the Skywalker Saga) and centralized it on, wait for it . . . the Skywalkers. He left it with the only third-generation Skywalker (Kylo/Ben) being Supreme Leader of the FO. He decimated the Resistance to make it easier for Kylo to build what could be an Empire. Episode IX could have been all about what Kylo/Ben (an actual Skywalker) does with total control of everything.

I don't know about you, but to me that seems like a pretty compelling starting point: having the last living Skywalker (after Leia) living out the destiny that his grandfather had never achieved by being completely in charge of a galaxy. If he had ended this trilogy by rejecting the aims of Darth Vader in favor of restoring order and peace to the galaxy, he would have ADDED to the legacy of Anakin and Luke.

Anakin wanted a better way to keep the galaxy safe and peaceful before turning to the dark side. Luke wanted the same peace and prosperity by defeating the Empire. Leia started the path forward by working with the New Republic. Ben Solo (the one character related to all of these Skywalkers) could have ended the entire Saga by giving them ALL what they had wanted. THAT would've justified this trilogy, IMO. Instead, JJ returned it to what the OT did with Vader: Kylo was always #2 and just trying to climb to the top . . . again. How does that advance the Skywalker Saga? How does it make any statement about their legacy that wasn't already said by George Lucas (and much better!)?

 

[Wor-Gar]

Surely the whirling, flimsily motivated storytelling of this sequel represents how Hollywood is changing: The tentpole movie is a catalog, and if anything in it caught your eye, a corresponding TV show, video game, comic, or plastic toy will be eventually be ready for consumption.

Most accurate and sad part of that article.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

That's been going on since the 80's tho.

 

[Getter Dragon]

The Sequels missed a trick by abandoning the stories that had already been written: the children of Han and Leia - Jacen, Jaina and Anakin.

Literally anything else would have been better than what we got. If Kennedy, JJ, and Ruin could write their own terrible fanfic, so can I. As you said story-lines were already available to make an engaging ST instead of the garbage we got. Here is some fanfic I came up with in just 10 minutes after watching the movie:

1. Darth Plagueis should have been the villain in this trilogy.
2. Finn should have been a stormtrooper turned Luke's Jedi student.
3. Rey was created by Plagueis as a vessel for his spirit just like how he made Anakin using midichlorians (explains his ability to "cheat" death).
4. End of second movie he actually takes over Rey's body and becomes Darth Rageus (lol).
5. Final battle is Luke, Ben and Finn lighsaber fighting the Knights of Ren who reveal themselves to be clones of previous sith lords just to have a crazy final battle anime style.
6. They all save Rey, destroy Plagueis/the Sith and everyone lives happily ever after.

It boggles my mind that with all that talent at Lucasfilm and billions of dollars, the best they could do is this trashfire trilogy when I could do better on a toy forum for free.

 

[Asta]

The seeds were always there to show a force far more powerful than the Jedi and Sith wielded. JJ begins to show that in the final installment, and did so with a story that shows compassion, love and caring.

I'd say the canon Saga is complete in a beautiful and mind-expanding way. I know some of you don't feel that way - I guess for you guys you have ROTJ, and that's not a bad film for the final instalment.

And I'm grateful to have seen 9, because frankly it's nice to finally understand where they were going with this all this time, and to shed the frustration and hate was sheer joy. But that's just me. I'll leave you guys to support one another, I'm only interfering and have a feeling my comments aren't of help at this point. I'll check in at another time, I do wish you all a very Merry Christmas and very Happy New Year!!!

A movie or a story is what it is to each individual.

We see or find what we can from it.

There's things I like in TFA and TLJ - I actually have no issue with Canto Bight, for instance.

But for me it's a matter of extracting parts from the whole. At the moment I'm struggling to find much to extract from TROS. I find it suffers a lot from the simple matter of dialogue.

The ST doesn't inspire me, unlike the OT, Rogue One or Solo. The focus on Rey, and the way Kylo was treated by the writers as a strange, pathetic man-child clinging to grandaddy issues will always be a hurdle to accepting these films as canon.

The existence of this Kylo character drags Han and Leia down with him, because this thing, this cuckoo-like creature that surely not even a parent could love, is even loved by Rey and forgiven by the ghost of the father whom he killed.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I loved lots of it but ultimately the Palpatine plot just crumbles into a confusing convoluted mess.

The movie has a great pace and characters that were on a proper cadence this time out much more exciting than TFA.

Movie should?ve opened with Palpatines voice booming over Endor with the Ewoks cowering in fear.

I agree about the pace -- it was fast and felt more like a Star Wars movie in that sense. Although some time spent in some places was not 'quality' time. The cave where they found the dagger was one of those places, and despite the big waves, there was little point to the Death Star wreckage -- they could have found that Waze-Christmas ornament anywhere and it simply took time away from the prime villain lair with more adventure time spent on Exegol.

I also agree that The Dead Speak should have been the Opening of the movie.

You got grown ass men in their 30s and 40s eating this **** up writing essays on what is essentially a baby movie.

Star Wars has always been that though. Its just gotten worse as the movies have gotten worse.

Star Wars has ultimately become disposable entertainment not unlike your cell phone -- you stand in line for hours, love all the new features, and then cant wait to throw it away for the next one.

That's been going on since the 80's tho.

Never like this, because in the 80s there was 6 years of SW and it was over. Even the toys were limited... until the onslaught of the 90s where literally every incarnation of a "character" was created, given backstories in books, games, etc. It exploded exponentially as Lucas licensed everything he could, Hasbro went whole-hog on toys, and a resurgence of kiddies from the 80s who now had disposable income in the 90s basically bought up everything they could thinking their collections would be worth millions one day.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Literally anything else would have been better than what we got. If Kennedy, JJ, and Ruin could write their own terrible fanfic, so can I. As you said story-lines were already available to make an engaging ST instead of the garbage we got. Here is some fanfic I came up with in just 10 minutes after watching the movie:

1. Darth Plagueis should have been the villain in this trilogy.
2. Finn should have been a stormtrooper turned Luke's Jedi student.
3. Rey was created by Plagueis as a vessel for his spirit just like how he made Anakin using midichlorians (explains his ability to "cheat" death).
4. End of second movie he actually takes over Rey's body and becomes Darth Rageus (lol).
5. Final battle is Luke, Ben and Finn lighsaber fighting the Knights of Ren who reveal themselves to be clones of previous sith lords just to have a crazy final battle anime style.
6. They all save Rey, destroy Plagueis and everyone lives happily ever after.

SJW and the media would not allow that in 2019.