Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Getter Dragon]

SJW and the media would not allow that in 2019.

Yes, because we all know they spend millions of dollars on Star Wars merch, so we must make them happy...

 

[Sassafras]

Yes, yes, and yes.

The Sequels missed a trick by abandoning the stories that had already been written: the children of Han and Leia - Jacen, Jaina and Anakin.

Instead they jumped straight to this strange Kylo offspring who's already evil when TFA begins. And his opponent is a super-powered newcomer who's unaware of her origins. Uncle Luke is sequestered away, and then killed off.

The ST becomes much like a clean break from the PT and OT. It's an off-shoot that finalises things only by relating the deaths of Han, Leia and Luke. It's pretty depressing really, like reading the Appendices to Lord of the Rings.

Interesting comment for me, 'coz it dovetails with my own lack of emotional response re TROS, a lot of the time. Without - since I was only ever a mild SW fan - being able to detail SW history etc. E.g., agree with mixed critical reaction. It was kinda weird for me - on the one hand, thought the acting was really good. Some nice chemistry.

On the other hand felt it was frenetic, and also didn't know how to edit here and there. Luminous moments and fan service. Some of Abram's fingers to RJ were funny and appreciated (poor Rose but probably for the best); the one re Luke IMO was not and *&^% me off. (Towards the end was way too much reminded of Harry Potter scenes).

IMO stupidity (horses and throw-away stuff WTF) and awesomeness. Frustrating movie. But IMO as holiday movies go, u get ur money's worth. It's stuffed with stuff. Feel like I need to see again to figure out everything that was going on; at same time don't feel like going to theater again (if I need to work to keep track might as well do it on home couch). No idea what hard core fans *in general* might feel, except though OT characters treated with care. Will give Abrams some credit for putting out a credible blockbuster in IMO impossible situation. Even if I found some things pretty questionable. But some moments that shone IMO.

Very glad I went in unspoiled - weird thing is, for all the callbacks, for me it DOESN'T feel like a continuation but DOES feel like an offshoot. TFA felt more like a "continuation". Dunno, thinkin' this director shift midstream just didn't work and left too big of a crack mid-epic. IMO Abrams tried hard, within his style. And some things IMO worked really well. And some Abrams needed an editor, badly.

 

[Adam1138]

Oh man I think I fall on Jye?s side with this one. TLJ destroyed my love for the Star Wars cannon and lore so this time I drank some beers and just said fudge it and went in with no expectations and just enjoyed the ride.

AJP all your complaints are valid but out of all the sequel trilogy this just felt like Star Wars to me. Yes it was infantile, the plot was full of holes and the gravitas was lost but ... it had something else! It focused on a group of close friends coming together despite the odds, over coming the enemy and somehow it just made sense. Not on a literal made sense but on I?m drunk and this has captured my attention in an old fashioned adventure quest story kind of way it made sense.

It reminded me of ROTJ in that it aims to satisfy the younger audience with its more simplistic viewpoint, exposition dump and straight forward macguffin chasing plot theme. But when it finished I realised I had a good time! I went to an early showing full of families and as I left I heard kids telling their parents how fun it was, how awesome Rey was, how they loved the plot ?twists? etc. It had grabbed their imaginations and as a result it just felt very Star Warsy and reminded me of myself and siblings watching the OT.

The film is far far from perfect or great but it was satisfying conclusion on some level. For that reason I?m fine with it, the best of the ST as it pandered more towards the kids than the cynical adults.

Well done JJ you did about the best you could have done with the limitations of TLJ. However the ST is still entirely pointless as it just resets the universe. For that reason it is out of my personal cannon, 1-6 only for me. Only now I would be happy to show these films to my kids when they are old enough, where post TLJ I was happy to just confine them to legends!!

Great post! In my opinion J.J. has worked a minor miracle with this film. Trying to untangle the ridiculous/comical mess of TLJ was always going to be an impossible task. Yes TROS does give a lot of fan service, but that?s exactly what I wanted from ALL of the ST. I haven?t spent my life passionately loving the Original films, just so some Pr#* of a director to come on board and say ?Hey guys, you know how you want these character arch?s to go? Well I?m going to turn them all upside down and I?m going to make a joke of all the Star Wars law that you?ve grown up with while I?m at it!?
J.J. was on a hiding to nothing with this film. I just wish that he could of been the only director for the ST. At least we would have got some sort of story continuity. I?d gladly go and watch this film again but I will never watch TLJ again, once was more than enough. To be honest if you negate Luke?s death, then you can quite
easily watch TFA and TROS back to back and leave the pile of s*#* that is TLJ completely out.

 

[dan350zr]

I remember people complaining about the Empire Strikes Back being too fast paced and not developing characters enough. Personally I enjoyed it. Ironically, George Lucas is so predictable in his directing style, that the cast of Star Wars apparently made a sign with his famous directing quote on it, ?Faster, more intense!? I didn?t find it that much faster than empire, if any. And it seems to me the fact that he only saw it as a treasure hunt, he kind of missed the whole point of the film. Maybe Spence had a headache or something was interfering with his viewing?

Really the only difference between this film and Empire, if you want to reduce it to these terms, is that in empire they are running from something to survive, and in Skywalker they are running to something to destroy it, in order to survive. The character development is the real story that happens along the way.

Lucas didn't direct Empire Strikes Back nor did he direct Return of the Jedi...

 

[ZE_501]

[...]

You got grown *** men in their 30s and 40s ... [...]

Actual footage of me after this is all said and done.

 

[The Buffinator]

Literally anything else would have been better than what we got. If Kennedy, JJ, and Ruin could write their own terrible fanfic, so can I. As you said story-lines were already available to make an engaging ST instead of the garbage we got. Here is some fanfic I came up with in just 10 minutes after watching the movie:

1. Darth Plagueis should have been the villain in this trilogy.
2. Finn should have been a stormtrooper turned Luke's Jedi student.
3. Rey was created by Plagueis as a vessel for his spirit just like how he made Anakin using midichlorians (explains his ability to "cheat" death).
4. End of second movie he actually takes over Rey's body and becomes Darth Rageus (lol).
5. Final battle is Luke, Ben and Finn lighsaber fighting the Knights of Ren who reveal themselves to be clones of previous sith lords just to have a crazy final battle anime style.
6. They all save Rey, destroy Plagueis/the Sith and everyone lives happily ever after.

It boggles my mind that with all that talent at Lucasfilm and billions of dollars, the best they could do is this trashfire trilogy when I could do better on a toy forum for free.

How would that work? Didn't his apprentice Darth Sidious (i.e., Emperor Palpatine) kill Plagueis in his sleep? Palpatine telling Anakin that is one of the few things I remember about the PT. Was that a lie?

 

[dan350zr]

TROS is projected to make $190 million this weekend (including Thursday take), that's about $50 million less than TFA and $30 million less than TLJ... I figured it would do good the first week as everyone (including the haters) would want to see how everything plays out... The big test will be if people want to see it several times, if not the numbers are going to slow down really fast over the next few weeks...

 

[Wor-Gar]

How would that work? Didn't his apprentice Darth Sidious (i.e., Emperor Palpatine) kill Plagueis in his sleep? Palpatine telling Anakin that is one of the few things I remember about the PT. Was that a lie?

Kiddies always want the Big Boss (the boss of the boss) to be the final level of the game.

TROS is projected to make $190 million this weekend (including Thursday take), that's about $50 million less than TFA and $30 million less than TLJ... I figured it would do good the first week as everyone (including the haters) would want to see how everything plays out... The big test will be if people want to see it several times, if not the numbers are going to slow down really fast over the next few weeks...

As expected. Its pretty obvious, good or bad film, that Disney has sucked the excitement out of "Star Wars at a theater".

Also, some families are probably holding back for reviews so they don't traumatize their kids like two years ago.

I actually think this might have more repeat viewing from those that like it because it does seem more re-watchable than TLJ. We'll see next week.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

How would that work? Didn't his apprentice Darth Sidious (i.e., Emperor Palpatine) kill Plagueis in his sleep? Palpatine telling Anakin that is one of the few things I remember about the PT. Was that a lie?

If Anakin being the chosen one can be a lie, then everything can be a lie.

 

[The Buffinator]

I'm still totally baffled by this argument, and it keeps getting repeated. What Rian did was take a trilogy that was on a trajectory to be a total OT ripoff (the one that is supposed to be the final trilogy in the Skywalker Saga) and centralized it on, wait for it . . . the Skywalkers. He left it with the only third-generation Skywalker (Kylo/Ben) being Supreme Leader of the FO. He decimated the Resistance to make it easier for Kylo to build what could be an Empire. Episode IX could have been all about what Kylo/Ben (an actual Skywalker) does with total control of everything.

I don't know about you, but to me that seems like a pretty compelling starting point: having the last living Skywalker (after Leia) living out the destiny that his grandfather had never achieved by being completely in charge of a galaxy. If he had ended this trilogy by rejecting the aims of Darth Vader in favor of restoring order and peace to the galaxy, he would have ADDED to the legacy of Anakin and Luke.

Anakin wanted a better way to keep the galaxy safe and peaceful before turning to the dark side. Luke wanted the same peace and prosperity by defeating the Empire. Leia started the path forward by working with the New Republic. Ben Solo (the one character related to all of these Skywalkers) could have ended the entire Saga by giving them ALL what they had wanted. THAT would've justified this trilogy, IMO. Instead, JJ returned it to what the OT did with Vader: Kylo was always #2 and just trying to climb to the top . . . again. How does that advance the Skywalker Saga? How does it make any statement about their legacy that wasn't already said by George Lucas (and much better!)?

Maybe that would have been interesting, but it would in no way result in a coherent story line within the trilogy. You'd have two movies featuring Rey as the protagonist, then it would be "JK folks - Kylo is the real hero of this story". Now maybe if Rian had decided to have Kylo ask Rey to join him in building a better universe without the Sith/Jedi dichotomy and she'd accepted that would make sense, but he didn't. Besides, who wants a SW movie without a Sith and/or Jedi wielding a lightsaber?

 

[Sassafras]

Great post! In my opinion J.J. has worked a minor miracle with this film. Trying to untangle the ridiculous/comical mess of TLJ was always going to be an impossible task. Yes TROS does give a lot of fan service, but that?s exactly what I wanted from ALL of the ST. I haven?t spent my life passionately loving the Original films, just so some Pr#* of a director to come on board and say ?Hey guys, you know how you want these character arch?s to go? Well I?m going to turn them all upside down and I?m going to make a joke of all the Star Wars law that you?ve grown up with while I?m at it!?
J.J. was on a hiding to nothing with this film. I just wish that he could of been the only director for the ST. At least we would have got some sort of story continuity. I?d gladly go and watch this film again but I will never watch TLJ again, once was more than enough. To be honest if you negate Luke?s death, then you can quite
easily watch TFA and TROS back to back and leave the pile of s*#* that is TLJ completely out.

IMO RJ did give a thoughtful, considered reason through Luke why Luke did what he did. Whether folks like it or not, or wanted to see it, over many years of thought (and the Jedi are supposed to think about stuff) - I could see it happening. I always liked the line about how the Dark Side arose with the Jedi, yah know, right there. Might suck, but it's true.

So re TROS didn't care for the Abrams treatment. Surprised there isn't more *chaos* re TROS on that score re Luke. Too perfunctory for me.

Also IMO TLJ has some fantastically beautifully shot scenes. There are a few IMO in TROS but too much was going on for me to appreciate.

But kudos to Abrams if devoted fans - at least some - feel things improved, in the end. Also IMO the handling of Leia was done with some skill - I DID have an emotional response to that. Well done with a very difficult real life situation IMO.

 

[jye4ever]

But the sacrifice doesn't justify him having the ability to resurrect someone from the dead. This power burns previous Star Wars to the ground. You don't think Anakin would've made the same sacrifice for his mother? Or Luke for his father at the end of ROTJ? Maybe even Obi-Wan for Qui-Gon?

If exchanging "Life Force" can resurrect a dead person, and Force users seemingly have an instinct for how to do it, Anakin's entire fall to the dark side has just been completely undermined. I'm talking totally **** on.



Palpatine drained the force from her before she killed him. She went on to fight off a guy who had just lightning-attacked miles worth of starships! And after having his force drained, Kylo got thrown into a pit . . . and then climbed out . . . and still had enough force left to BRING SOMEONE BACK TO LIFE!

None of this makes any sense at all. Palpatine drains the force from two people so that he can become the most powerful Sith in history. But the force drain leaves Rey strong enough to kill him, and leaves Kylo strong enough to bring someone back from the dead. But when Kylo drains himself, it kills him. But Rey can drain enough of herself to heal Kylo without any repercussions.

The rules are all over the place. And I still wouldn't really have a problem with that if these new Force powers didn't completely mess with critical OT and PT plot points. Now everything that those movies were centered around is called into question. If you can just suck "life force" out of someone to make yourself more powerful, why didn't Vader eventually return his body back to the health he had as Anakin? Why didn't Palpatine just do that to Luke in order to get even stronger? Or do it to Yoda?

A mess. If JJ had introduced a new Force power where Jedi could fart Force bubbles that incapacitate opponents, it'd be less of a problem. But he went with the one power that can undermine the key events of GL's episodes.

You are conveniently forgetting that Rey and Kylo had the ENTIRE FORCE THE ENTIRE FORCE GHOST JEDIS LITERALLY ALL THE PRIMARY JEDIS powering them!

It was Prime Palpatine vs the entire Force being channeled thru Rey!

Now if you think that?s dumb so be it but it wasn?t just Rey and Kylo there at the very end.

I?m just pissed we didn?t get to actually see all of them just hear them.

Stop complicating things for yourself it?s unnatural especially for a Jedi lol




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[jye4ever]

IMO RJ did give a thoughtful, considered reason through Luke why Luke did what he did. Whether folks like it or not, or wanted to see it, over many years of thought (and the Jedi are supposed to think about stuff) - I could see it happening. I always liked the line about how the Dark Side arose with the Jedi, yah know, right there. Might suck, but it's true.

So re TROS didn't care for the Abrams treatment. Surprised there isn't more *chaos* re TROS on that score re Luke. Too perfunctory for me.

Also IMO TLJ has some fantastically beautifully shot scenes. There are a few IMO in TROS but too much was going on for me to appreciate.

But kudos to Abrams if devoted fans - at least some - feel things improved, in the end. Also IMO the handling of Leia was done with some skill - I DID have an emotional response to that. Well done with a very difficult real life situation IMO.

Leia death was very well handled indeed no doubt one of the highlights of the movie.


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[ajp4mgs]

Maybe that would have been interesting, but it would in no way result in a coherent story line within the trilogy. You'd have two movies featuring Rey as the protagonist, then it would be "JK folks - Kylo is the real hero of this story". Now maybe if Rian had decided to have Kylo ask Rey to join him in building a better universe without the Sith/Jedi dichotomy and she'd accepted that would make sense, but he didn't.

Rey could've very much continued being the protagonist up until the very end. But then it could (and should) be the last Skywalker who ultimately lays the foundation for the future. The bond between the two characters was established for a reason. If Kylo was to ever shed the ambitions of Vader (and embrace those of Anakin, Luke, and Leia instead), it would be Rey who would play a key role in that.

Kylo's obsession with "let the past die" also ties in to how he blames the previous generation (his parents and uncle) for how he ended up (instead of blaming himself for his actions). Rey is his contemporary, though - and they have this powerful Force bond. She is the future, not the past; and represents something different. Kylo's decision with the entire FO at his command would be how to use it to influence that future.

I think justifying the existence of this trilogy in a Skywalker Saga would have been better achieved by having the last living *Skywalker* use the power that he both inherited and earned to gain Anakin, Luke, and Leia the type of galactic peace and prosperity that they each wanted. Kylo had a powerful organization at his command. After a year between movies, that power could've expanded exponentially. The Resistance was in no position to slow him down. But that doesn't mean that Rey couldn't get help from the spirits of Anakin and Luke (again: the Skywalkers!) to reach their last family member in time to use the power he built for good rather than evil.

Instead, there are still FO remnants left after TROS. They're just as organized as the shreds of the New Republic without Leia. How will galactic order be restored now with two sides potentially still clinging to remnants of the former power structures? Nothing is really resolved if you think about it. And the last remaining Jedi is a Palpatine who shot lightning from her hand when she got frustrated. So why should I believe the future in the SW universe would be any different than the past?

Besides, who wants a SW movie without a Sith and/or Jedi wielding a lightsaber?

There's no reason why Kylo and Rey couldn't have just as many lightsaber battles as they did in TROS. He still starts as the evil-inclined Kylo Ren, and she still starts as the future Jedi who shut the door on him.

And a reveal about Snoke's dark powers and influence (perhaps even pertaining to a role related to a Palpatine contingency plan) would still be on the table for the Sith element. Lots of places this could've gone.

 

[jye4ever]

Holy crap did Wor-Gar just ask DiFabio if he was peddling death sticks at the bar lol


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[ajp4mgs]

You are conveniently forgetting that Rey and Kylo had the ENTIRE FORCE THE ENTIRE FORCE GHOST JEDIS LITERALLY ALL THE PRIMARY JEDIS powering them!

It was Prime Palpatine vs the entire Force being channeled thru Rey!

Dude, all she did was cross two lightsabers and have Palps stupidly continue using his lightning until he died. There was no "combined Force power;" they just told her to get up, FFS. She had the same "life force" drained from her as Ben did, and Ben still climbed out of a pit with enough left in his tank to bring her back to life. Is that not what happened?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Dude, all she did was cross two lightsabers and have Palps stupidly continue using his lightning until he died. There was no "combined Force power;" they just told her to get up, FFS. She had the same "life force" drained from her as Ben did, and Ben still climbed out of a pit with enough left in his tank to bring her back to life. Is that not what happened?

One lightsaber - Palpatine "UNLIMITED POWAHHHH!!!"

Two lightsaber crossed like Wonder Woman ?.

IT'S POETRY!!

 

[ajp4mgs]

One lightsaber - Palpatine "UNLIMITED POWAHHHH!!!"

Two lightsaber crossed like Wonder Woman ?.

IT'S POETRY!!

Pretty much what happened.

 

[jye4ever]

Dude, all she did was cross two lightsabers and have Palps stupidly continue using his lightning until he died. There was no "combined Force power;" they just told her to get up, FFS. She had the same "life force" drained from her as Ben did, and Ben still climbed out of a pit with enough left in his tank to bring her back to life. Is that not what happened?

A Palpatine bloodline with the help of a living Skywalker bloodline and the help of a combined force power of:

Yoda
Luke
Anakin
Leia
ObiWan
QuiGon
Mace

Defeated the Emperor.

She was connected with the freaking force I mean literally her mind went into deep space and connected with all of those beings giving her the will of their powers to get up and fight channeled thru 2 lightsabers.

Why is that so hard to accept.

I mean if that?s not what happened then why would they bother to include all of those characters as literal representation of the force in a single unified moment.



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[ajp4mgs]

A Palpatine bloodline with the help of a living Skywalker bloodline and the help of a combined force power of:

Yoda
Luke
Anakin
Leia
ObiWan
QuiGon
Mace

Defeated the Emperor.

She was connected with the freaking force I mean literally her mind went into deep space and connected with all of those beings giving her the will of their powers to get up and fight channeled thru 2 lightsabers.

Why is that so hard to accept.



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Look jye, I love your enthusiasm for this stuff, and I don't want to keep crapping on it. But I just want you to think about the logic of all of these Force ghosts waiting until now (and waiting for Rey Palpatine) to take out the bad guy. After 5 planets were destroyed by Snoke/Palpatine in TFA. After more havoc and destruction by the "death star destroyers" in TROS. Now, the combined Jedi are able to power someone to take out a more powerful version of Palpatine than he was in the OT?

What are you telling me here? Are you serious that you think I'm missing something that makes all the sense in the world because Rey crossed two lightsabers? Palpatine essentially killed himself. And why wouldn't he? He'd just finished telling Rey that her killing him would unleash her Sith powers so she could be the new empress.