Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[xipotec]

Probably the most muted reaction I've ever had for a Star Wars film. I really just didn't care about anything that was happening and I have pretty much nothing else to say about it one way or another.

I still think the PT suck but to me they have more validity as stories. Would that place them higher in my personal rankings by default? I guess it should...

Thats just the issue.

People think all the rules of the universe of SW have been written in 6 other films.

Pretty small universe when you base EVERYTHING possible on 12 hours of footage.




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[jedijim3002]

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[Khev]

It wouldn't be so much that Hux is the big bad at the end, it's that Kylo had turned the FO into something on the verge of being an Empire. The little ***** that Hux is wouldn't matter. It'd just be a way to get the power of the FO Kylo had built to be stronger facing off against the Resistance and new allies.

Kylo could still be the big bad for most of it. Then his redemption happens and Ben joins his family to clean up the mess he made.

That doesn't sound any different to me than what we got except you just swapped Palpatine with Hux. So in your scenario where Ben switches sides and aids the Resistance there's no evil Force user at all? Just Rey and Ben in fighters with Poe and everyone else attacking Hux's armada? In all seriousness I won't poke fun if that would have been satisfying to you, I just am genuinely curious to hear how people who didn't like TROS thought the Saga should have ended after TLJ.

 

[xipotec]

It couldn't possibly be more obvious that the film-makers have such contempt for the audience and the material that they just threw any and all rules out the window years ago. And it doesn't backfire cause the audience is so desperate to love this stinking turd that they'll just go along with all the rule-breaking as it goes, collectively performing mass double-think so as not to admit that their precious Star Wars movies are built on a shifting pile of ****.

Just like Project Mayhem. They can't make sense of their leader's crazy inconsistencies, but they so desperately need to believe in everything he says....that they just make it work as it goes. Twisting and contorting his words so it fits their religion.

In death.....we have names. HIS name...is Robert Paulsen. His name is Robert Paulsen! His name is Robert Paulsen! His name is Robert Paulsen!!

This was almost perfect ....but him saying ?salty? again would have brought the house down....


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[Sassafras]

Then TROS comes along and says that the Sith were never defeated. Not only did Palpatine survive, there were *thousands* of Sith Eternal cultists working *the whole time* to build a Sith fleet of death star destroyers on Exogol. So, Anakin did no damage to the Sith. In fact, Palpatine even got stronger, merely inhabited a different body, and manipulated Anakin's grandson. Rey is the one who ended the Sith (maybe). Only *she* can be viewed as the true Chosen One. Everything else was just a setup to Rey bringing balance to the Force. All of GL's movies . . . reduced to being a setup!

And then Rey just steals the Skywalker name to fool fans into thinking that the entire Skywalker Saga of George Lucas wasn't just completely undermined. No thanks. I still haven't seen one single argument for TROS not undoing GL's Anakin arc from 1-6 that has any credibility.

It's forced (no pun intended) stuff like this that helps make me view the ST as fan fiction. E.g., fan fiction often lacks originality, has huge logic/plot holes, things happen because *reasons*, bad boy isn't so bad, there's a Mary Sue everyone luvs, romance, Macguffins like the *Morgul blade*, and nobody ends up without a partner one way or the other. And no real bad endings and ripping off from other works (in this case I just couldn't get Voldemort etc. out of my head - it's a wonder David Tennant didn't show up, which IMO would have improved things). Sometimes enjoyable fan fiction; very EXPENSIVE fan fiction, but not really memorable either. If u hit a wall with a character arc, well, hey, just sideline them. (It's possible we've all been fooled and Abrams is actually a teenage girl).

And if u are targeting an up and coming audience with kids (e.g. future MCU/Captain Marvel) it's exactly the kind of movie you'd put out. (I think it was Spielberg who said that movies like the widely praised Lincoln will only be seen on TV, in time.) The movie business is changing. Hard to get funding for stuff that's not a sure thing. Disney hired Abrams, ultimately - not a director they needed to WORRY about with his track record. And he delivered.

If films are products of their time - TROS is IMO a product of studios wanting to play it safe and not *&^% investors. But IMO - hey, they're doing Dune. Again. Star Wars overall is global culture. Suspect in time, a visionary director is gonna step up and re-tool things. Think Logan and Batman. For me it sucks as IMO some really good bones were here, story-wise. But no matter - any character I might miss can just pop back from the Netherworld or worm hole.

 

[DiFabio]

Thats just the issue.

People think all the rules of the universe of SW have been written in 6 other films.

Pretty small universe when you base EVERYTHING possible on 12 hours of footage.

That's not what a-dev was saying at all.

Small universe? Pretty small universe when you make all the characters related to each other, reuse all the memorable trinkets from the previous trilogy (Anakin's lightsaber, the Yavin medal, the classic XWing and Tie Fighter) and copy the same beats and story lines, over and over again.

Rey is a Palpatine, the Jannah chick was *this* close to being Lando's daughter. It's ridiculous.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

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It's funny, but true. In the comics, Darth Vader spent years trying to heal his lungs so that he could ditch the suit, but he never achieved it. Anakin, a force prodigy, could not achieve it.

 

[xipotec]

That's not what a-dev was saying at all.

Small universe? Pretty small universe when you make all the characters related to each other, reuse all the memorable trinkets from the previous trilogy (Anakin's lightsaber, the Yavin medal, the classic XWing and Tie Fighter) and copy the same beats and story lines, over and over again.

Rey is a Palpatine, the Jannah chick was *this* close to being Lando's daughter. It's ridiculous.

Yea my quotes got screwed up..... makes no sense on either of my last posts.

Not that any of them makes alot of sense anyway.

Good ol? Tapatalk seems to be grabbing the wrong quotes.

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[surforia]

It's funny, but true. In the comics, Darth Vader spent years trying to heal his lungs so that he could ditch the suit, but he never achieved it. Anakin, a force prodigy, could not achieve it.

The concept of force healing, at least based on the Mando and IX, is that you must give your own ?life force? to someone or something else, so it doesn?t seem like he could get it to work on himself.

 

[ajp4mgs]

That doesn't sound any different to me than what we got except you just swapped Palpatine with Hux. So in your scenario where Ben switches sides and aids the Resistance there's no evil Force user at all? Just Rey and Ben in fighters with Poe and everyone else attacking Hux's armada? In all seriousness I won't poke fun if that would have been satisfying to you, I just am genuinely curious to hear how people who didn't like TROS thought the Saga should have ended after TLJ.

All of the lightsaber dueling between Rey and Kylo would still take place. And if you wanted more at the end, with others involved, you could've even used the plot thread from TLJ that Ben Solo left with a handful of Luke's students. Those students are unaccounted for. They could've been brought out early on in ep9 as Kylo's personal dark-side guard. At the end, Hux is merely the military leader. Ben and Rey could fight off Luke's old students once they learn that Kylo was their Master Snoke's murderer, and turned back to being Ben. The rest of the (military) campaign takes place in the giant space battle.

You'd still get Force-powered fighting throughout the movie. Even at the end. It didn't need to be Palpatine. It didn't need to undo Anakin's arc. And Hux wouldn't be the "big bad" - he'd essentially just be a symbolic figure at the end leading his military against the good guys (like a crappy version of Tarkin, or a glorified Piett). And I think Ben killing Hux would be fitting as a symbolic punctuation point: ending the wannabe threat that was nothing more than an imitation of the Empire and the OT.

It's funny, but true. In the comics, Darth Vader spent years trying to heal his lungs so that he could ditch the suit, but he never achieved it. Anakin, a force prodigy, could not achieve it.

Did you catch that Vader's voice in Kylo's head still had the artificial breathing? Apparently, Palpatine thought Kylo was stupid enough to think that Vader's spirit would be using an artificial respirator.

 

[Khev]

All of the lightsaber dueling between Rey and Kylo would still take place. And if you wanted more at the end, with others involved, you could've even used the plot thread from TLJ that Ben Solo left with a handful of Luke's students. Those students are unaccounted for. They could've been brought out early on in ep9 as Kylo's personal dark-side guard. At the end, Hux is merely the military leader. Ben and Rey could fight off Luke's old students once they learn that Kylo was their Master Snoke's murderer, and turned back to being Ben. The rest of the (military) campaign takes place in the giant space battle.

You'd still get Force-powered fighting throughout the movie. Even at the end. It didn't need to be Palpatine. It didn't need to undo Anakin's arc. And Hux wouldn't be the "big bad" - he'd essentially just be a symbolic figure at the end leading his military against the good guys (like a crappy version of Tarkin, or a glorified Piett). And I think Ben killing Hux would be fitting as a symbolic punctuation point: ending the wannabe threat that was nothing more than an imitation of the Empire and the OT.

Okay, thanks for sharing.

But prior to the release of TROS didn't you used to argue that Ben Solo being redeemed would ruin his character for you? I could have sworn that that was the case which surprises me that you also would have elected to have him turn in your "ideal" scenario. Unless I'm misremembering your prior misgivings.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Okay, thanks for sharing.

But prior to the release of TROS didn't you used to argue that Ben Solo being redeemed would ruin his character for you? I could have sworn that that was the case which surprises me that you also would have elected to have him turn in your "ideal" scenario. Unless I'm misremembering your prior misgivings.

You are remembering correctly. That was something you and I actually agreed on. But I think we both knew that Kylo was being set up all along for a redemption. Everyone knew that; it was a given. I think it's crap, but I know that Disney would never take it in any other direction.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

View attachment 474191

That pic is perfect metaphor for JJ making the ROSK. That's KK next to him looking away like Judas.

 

[Khev]

Yeah having him come back after killing Han didn't seem feasible to me. Boy did JJ prove me wrong on that one.

So if you wouldn't mind humoring me just a little further, what would be your truly ideal Episode IX? Like if RJ had stayed on to write and direct and gave you your perfect finale what would it be? I don't mean spell out every single scene or anything but just a broad summary like the paragraphs you gave above.

 

[ZE_501]

Just re-watched the first few minutes of TLJ. That opening had so much potential but went straight down the toilet very quickly.

1. Poe's joke was bad and very MCU but that's not what bothered me, it was his total insubordination.

2. Not only was Leia completely disrespected by Poe but apparently no one else in the Resistance military had any respect for her or for chain of command. Or did she not even try to stop them?

3. No problem with the bomber's way of deploying munitions. Magnetic rail-gun, repulsor tech, whatever .. that worked. But why were they so slow and lined up like ducks in a shooting gallery to boot? No shields? No armour? And the *only* way to deploy the bombs was via a single hand-held device carried by a lone crew member?

4. All it took was *one* payload to blow the Dreadnought to smithereens? So they're made out of cardboard and tin cans with zero shields?

5. The Resistance fleet *does not move*. It literally sits there in the Dreadnought's crosshairs and hopes for the best.

And that was within the first 12 minutes.

Yet it's shot beautifully and dynamically with real suspense if you don't think about it at all.

I left this thread, came back to it, keep wondering "Is there something I missed?"

These aren't plot 'holes' per se. There's not enough plot for a hole, so I look at you guys who love the ST and create elaborate backstory for this thing and all I can think is "I'll have what they're having!" -- seriously, I wish I could enjoy these films. I'm honestly confused.

And I understand that TROS is not TLJ but the trend just continues, as far as I can see.

I should just accept these weren't made for me, go home and re-think my life.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Yeah having him come back after killing Han didn't seem feasible to me. Boy did JJ prove me wrong on that one.

So if you wouldn't mind humoring me just a little further, what would be your truly ideal Episode IX? Like if RJ had stayed on to write and direct and gave you your perfect finale what would it be? I don't mean spell out every single scene or anything but just a broad summary like the paragraphs you gave above.

My ideal Episode IX would end with Anakin, Luke, and Leia being the driving force behind whatever happened at the climax. Even though it may seem like I had some set story that I wanted to see play out, I purposely avoided doing that. I normally avoid it anyway, but particularly after seeing how crushed some fans got that their story expectations following TFA didn't manifest.

I'm not getting paid to write SW scripts, so please don't think that I'm suggesting that I would've been better able to construct a satisfying story that tied up the whole saga. But based on the fact that George Lucas always came back to how important it was that the Skywalker Saga was a family drama cast against the backdrop of epic space warfare, I'd end it with a real emphasis on the Skywalker family.

Kylo would have taken the FO to new heights of power. The Resistance would've been recruiting assistance, and Luke's inspiration would've been earning them that assistance. Rey and Kylo would battle (maybe more than once), but Kylo would ultimately prove more powerful. Knowing that she can't defeat him now that he isn't trying to keep her alive as his partner in ruling the galaxy, Rey could commune with Luke's spirit. It would be Luke, having learned from his experiences, who would help Rey subdue Kylo. And since I knew that Kylo would need to be redeemed (to satisfy Disney), it would be Anakin who would be brought in to show him that Vader's legacy is nothing to emulate. Rather, it's the difficult decision that Anakin made to turn away from the easier path that should be the Skywalker legacy.

We could go on and on about what all of the specific plot points would be, but I think the moralistic and thematic notes need to be the takeaway. The Skywalker Saga is about family and about having the fortitude to fight against your darker impulses that present you with the easier path to power. It's not about being great at things just because you were meant to be powerful. It's about earning what you get, and leaving things better for having made tough choices. It's about making mistakes, but learning from them so that you can raise kids to not make the same ones.

However the story needed to play out, those are the things I wanted. And I wanted ALL of the Skywalkers to be the heroes. Not a Palpatine. I've said for a long time now that to me, Rey was a catalyst for whatever needed to happen with Kylo/Ben. But the ultimate ending to the saga needed to be Skywalker driven.

 

[ZE_501]

Yeah having him come back after killing Han didn't seem feasible to me. Boy did JJ prove me wrong on that one.

So if you wouldn't mind humoring me just a little further, what would be your truly ideal Episode IX? Like if RJ had stayed on to write and direct and gave you your perfect finale what would it be? I don't mean spell out every single scene or anything but just a broad summary like the paragraphs you gave above.

As a mental exercise I've been trying to sketch out what I would have found as an acceptable Sequel Trilogy outline.

You know what? It's *really freaking hard*. Episode 7 is relatively easy. I ran into problems *immediately* with episode 8 and stalled.

You have these massive legacy characters you need to simultaneously respect and get out of the way, while trying to make new ones interesting in a plot that shows sufficient gravitas yet isn't a re-hash. Please fans without going too deep for casuals.

I'll share for fun once I'm done. But Disney and friends were so screwed from the start. This trilogy was almost un-writable.

 

[xipotec]

My ideal Episode IX would end with Anakin, Luke, and Leia being the driving force behind whatever happened at the climax. Even though it may seem like I had some set story that I wanted to see play out, I purposely avoided doing that. I normally avoid it anyway, but particularly after seeing how crushed some fans got that their story expectations following TFA didn't manifest.

I'm not getting paid to write SW scripts, so please don't think that I'm suggesting that I would've been better able to construct a satisfying story that tied up the whole saga. But based on the fact that George Lucas always came back to how important it was that the Skywalker Saga was a family drama cast against the backdrop of epic space warfare, I'd end it with a real emphasis on the Skywalker family.

Kylo would have taken the FO to new heights of power. The Resistance would've been recruiting assistance, and Luke's inspiration would've been earning them that assistance. Rey and Kylo would battle (maybe more than once), but Kylo would ultimately prove more powerful. Knowing that she can't defeat him now that he isn't trying to keep her alive as his partner in ruling the galaxy, Rey could commune with Luke's spirit. It would be Luke, having learned from his experiences, who would help Rey subdue Kylo. And since I knew that Kylo would need to be redeemed (to satisfy Disney), it would be Anakin who would be brought in to show him that Vader's legacy is nothing to emulate. Rather, it's the difficult decision that Anakin made to turn away from the easier path that should be the Skywalker legacy.

We could go on and on about what all of the specific plot points would be, but I think the moralistic and thematic notes need to be the takeaway. The Skywalker Saga is about family and about having the fortitude to fight against your darker impulses that present you with the easier path to power. It's not about being great at things just because you were meant to be powerful. It's about earning what you get, and leaving things better for having made tough choices. It's about making mistakes, but learning from them so that you can raise kids to not make the same ones.

However the story needed to play out, those are the things I wanted. And I wanted ALL of the Skywalkers to be the heroes. Not a Palpatine. I've said for a long time now that to me, Rey was a catalyst for whatever needed to happen with Kylo/Ben. But the ultimate ending to the saga needed to be Skywalker driven.

50% of fans already hate your script...
LOL

You cannot win with SW fans


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[DiFabio]

That pic is perfect metaphor for JJ making the ROSK. That's KK next to him looking away like Judas.

I don't feel sorry for Abrams.

You could make a decent movie following TLJ without addressing it every 20 mins. Still can't believe that "Holdo Maneuver" line is in the movie or vats with cloned Snokes (all having the same scars). It's so in your face and silly. Really makes you feel like a committee was writing these things and not a screenwriter that actually liked Star Wars. Rule #1 for the sequel to TLJ should have been not even acknowledging TLJ and doing your own thing with what was left with the characters. There was plenty.

Coulda went all in and made Kylo Ren his own man as a full on villain, explored the Knights of Ren and explored the event and ramifications of Luke and his school, but nah, bring back Palpatine and Lando and Wedge and Wicket and Super Star Destroyers with Death Star Cannons attached to their frickin' heads. It's no different than Force Awakens or Last Jedi, just swap out the familiar icons.

I was telling my friends this, if we sat down and really thought about it, we could all write up a better Star Wars film than what they have given us these last couple of years. People on this board could too, and in under a year. Just so many of the scenes feel so cheap, cliche and horrible that you have to wonder how exactly it got past storyboards. Like when all of Poe's squadron is getting shot down while Palps is using his super electricity and he's just sitting there, giving up, then, Lando and all the other "people" from around the galaxy pop up with generic John Williams Star Wars cranked up to 11. It's just so ridiculous. The whole movie is that way. From the beginning with the hyper speed jumping to the end with "Rey, Rey Skywalker", it's just so cheap. ****, go on wikipedia and read the plot. It's ludicrous. In one sentence Chewbacca "dies" in a transport only for the end of the sentence to reveal that he's fine and that's exactly what the movie was like.

I don't think this is me being older and cynical. Other Star Wars films had a flow and world building to them. You took your time on Tatooine with the Lars homestead and the cantina. You got to enjoy locations like Hoth with Echo Base and the AT-AT assault, or Naboo with Theed, Otoh gunga etc. There was a simple progression to them. The R2 unit having the death star plans, go to point A to B. What do you know, you're on the Death Star. We need to kill General Grievous to win the war and the enemy knows they need to move from Utapau to Mustafar, what do you know, you're on Mustafar. Even the lightsaber battles follow this path and takes it's time with it. The Empire duel is great because it's building up to something and takes it's time. It's not just one fight in one location. It moves from the carbon freezing chamber, to the command room to outside on the catwalk and gantry. Same with Phantom Menace with the Theed generator and ROTS with Mustafar.

The sequel movies are like a kid with ADD just throwing whatever on the screen and hoping it sticks. How you end up with Rey on Tatooine on the Lars Homestead, burying the lightsabers, I don't know. It's just bizarre.

 

[ajp4mgs]

50% of fans already hate your script...
LOL

You cannot win with SW fans


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Way more than 50%. WAY more!

But you can never please everybody anyway, so instead of trying to pacify or pander, I prefer when artists just do art. Just tell a story that is genuine and inspired. I think that's what movies should be. That's what I think ANH and ESB were. And for me, whether I like the plot beats or not, if I know that the writer(s) made a genuine effort to tell an inspired story, and do the best possible job of putting that story on screen, then I can respect it. I don't have to like the story in order to respect the film. I don't respect TROS. But that doesn't matter; a majority of fans seem to enjoy it, so all is well. Especially for Disney.