Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[jye4ever]

Yeah I think seeing him just all calm and dying snapped her out of her funk and she realized that she had done a terrible thing. So she healed him and then immediately flew off to Ach-To to forever prevent herself from ever making such a mistake again.

It's pretty cool how that duel effected them and how they each needed an OT character to guide them back into the fight.

Great point on your last part there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Khev]

Yeah if it weren't for Han and Luke the Force Dyad would have ended as an Ahch-To hermit and a DS II hermit, lol.

Speaking of Han how do you interpret his appearance?

It sounds like the JJ cut had him as nothing more than a fabricated Force Projection by Leia. I don't like that (and is another reason I'm fine with JJ's version staying buried forever.) If it's just Leia doing another puppet show then that's two straight films that Ben was manipulated by Force Projection.

I know that it goes against SW tradition of only Jedi appearing as ghosts but for me the Han scene only works if it *is really him.* Disney wisely insisted that it be open to interpretation because I take it as Leia using the Force to assist in bringing Han's spirit out of the netherworld so that the two of them could legitimately interact. That isn't totally without precedent either since it was decided by George and Kasdan that in ROTJ it was Ben and Yoda that were able to help Anakin become a ghost after he died (hence his body not disappearing.)

So I think that's what Leia did for Han. If it isn't him then it doesn't actually make up for his murder at all since the real Han would have still died tragically with no reconciliation whatsoever.

 

[ajp4mgs]

When Rey stabbed Kylo/Ben with her lightsaber (which I presume was a killing blow) after he had bested her and then inexplicably dropped his guard (from what I can tell Rey didn?t know about the Leia distraction until later) was that not her literally succumbing to the dark side and striking him down in anger. It didn?t look like self defence and she didn?t even need Chancellor Palpatine or equivalent goading her on ?do it?. She struck him down whilst he was defenceless and was not even conflicted about doing so. It?s irrelevant that she put a force band aid over it afterwards, no harm done ... because the harm was not caused by the physical action but by her making the conscious decision to kill a defenceless opponent?

This is such a great observation! And it was the second time in the movie that Rey's dark side acted out on impulse (her Force lightning attack on the ship being the first).

Just makes me wonder how making her a Palpatine (therefore more prone to dark side influence than most Jedi from the past) was what they decided to go with while also deciding to make her the beacon for a potential new Jedi Order. I just don't get it. That lineage decision was driven purely by response to fan reaction about needing Rey to have come from some important family. It doesn't serve the larger story, IMO, except to raise new problems.

 

[Neal136]

When speaking with Han, Kylo says he's "just a memory", to which Han answers, "your memory". Seeing that their conversation is nearly identical to what they say to each other on the bridge in TFA, I think that's all Han is: a visualized memory to aid Kylo's return to the light. Now, I can get behind that Leia had a lot to do with that, but I don't think (in ANY way) that it's supposed to be Han's spirit or ghost.

 

[Khev]

When speaking with Han, Kylo says he's "just a memory", to which Han answers, "your memory". Seeing that their conversation is nearly identical to what they say to each other on the bridge in TFA, I think that's all Han is: a visualized memory to aid Kylo's return to the light. Now, I can get behind that Leia had a lot to do with that, but I don't think (in ANY way) that it's supposed to be Han's spirit or ghost.

My head says you're right as far as what was intended but since it wasn't 100% spelled out (Han could have just been being Han when he said "your memory" meaning like "hey bud we don't need to get into the supernatural physics of how I'm here, just know that I'm here for *you*") so I like to take it as the spirit of Han Solo and that that was a true send-off of his actual character.

Him being the first non-Jedi ghost also plays off of Luke's TLJ comments that "the Force doesn't belong to the Jedi" as well and that it could have been their hubris in assuming that only they possessed the path to immortality so to speak.

Even if you take the most likely interpretation of him just being imagined I can see how it can still be considered to reverse the tragedy of his murder in a "what Han fought for still lives on and that's what Ben reconnected with" kind of way but the sentimental sap in me just prefers it as a true reconciliation between father and son.

 

[Khev]

Oh wow I see that Billie Lourd played young Leia for the Jedi training flashback (and that it really was Mark Hamill who flipped up his own visor as a de-aged version of himself.) That's awesome.

 

[SvenDokki]

Yeah if it weren't for Han and Luke the Force Dyad would have ended as an Ahch-To hermit and a DS II hermit, lol.

Speaking of Han how do you interpret his appearance?

It sounds like the JJ cut had him as nothing more than a fabricated Force Projection by Leia. I don't like that (and is another reason I'm fine with JJ's version staying buried forever.) If it's just Leia doing another puppet show then that's two straight films that Ben was manipulated by Force Projection.

I know that it goes against SW tradition of only Jedi appearing as ghosts but for me the Han scene only works if it *is really him.* Disney wisely insisted that it be open to interpretation because I take it as Leia using the Force to assist in bringing Han's spirit out of the netherworld so that the two of them could legitimately interact. That isn't totally without precedent either since it was decided by George and Kasdan that in ROTJ it was Ben and Yoda that were able to help Anakin become a ghost after he died (hence his body not disappearing.)

So I think that's what Leia did for Han. If it isn't him then it doesn't actually make up for his murder at all since the real Han would have still died tragically with no reconciliation whatsoever.

You know more than me then. They never showed anyone else appearing as ghosts, but they never showed a lot of things (doesn't mean they couldn't though).

I don't need everything delineated myself, real life isn't that way. I prefer the ambiguity. People claim to see ghosts in this life, so it's not much of a stretch for Star Wars really now, is it?

 

[Khev]

Yeah I'm fine with "Jedi turning into ghosts" as being more of a guideline than an actual rule, lol. Especially since the films themselves are inconsistent with the whole disappearing/not disappearing thing.

 

[The Buffinator]

I'm just happy that Han's spirit didn't have to take over the body of Whoopi Goldberg in order to interact with Ben....

 

[darth dennis]

I'm just happy that Han's spirit didn't have to take over the body of Whoopi Goldberg in order to interact with Ben....

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Oh wow I see that Billie Lourd played young Leia for the Jedi training flashback (and that it really was Mark Hamill who flipped up his own visor as a de-aged version of himself.) That's awesome.

That sequence should have been episode 7.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Han should have started the conversation by first pimp slapping his son. Ghosts can do that now....(Wait was Han a force ghost or a regular ghost, and do you have to be a force ghost to interact with the living and/or tangible objects?)

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

 

[FlyAndFight]

I would have been more impressed if in the battle between Rey and Kylo, Rey goes "Mace vs Jango" on him and then proceeds to patch things up with the new Force healing power.

 

[Khev]

I'm just happy that Han's spirit didn't have to take over the body of Whoopi Goldberg in order to interact with Ben....

Jannah: "Just do it Han before I change my mind!"

Ohhhhhhhhh, my love...my darling...
I've hungered for...your touch...

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Han should have started the conversation by first pimp slapping his son. Ghosts can do that now....(Wait was Han a force ghost or a regular ghost, and do you have to be a force ghost to interact with the living and/or tangible objects?)

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

In the movie Ghost, Patrick Swayze was trained by another ghost to move tangible objects.

 

[Asta]

(Wait was Han a force ghost or a regular ghost...?)

Neither.

He was a memory conjured up by his psycho son.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Neither.

He was a memory conjured up by his psycho son.

Kylo was probably talking to a squirrel.

 

[jedijim3002]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Asta]

Kylo was probably talking to a squirrel.

A squirrel wearing a bad wig.

 

[Prime Clone]

When speaking with Han, Kylo says he's "just a memory", to which Han answers, "your memory". Seeing that their conversation is nearly identical to what they say to each other on the bridge in TFA, I think that's all Han is: a visualized memory to aid Kylo's return to the light. Now, I can get behind that Leia had a lot to do with that, but I don't think (in ANY way) that it's supposed to be Han's spirit or ghost.

I concur. It actually reminds me of both Jonathan Kent's reappearance in BvS and Jor-El's hologram in STM, when he could anticipate Kal's every question.