Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[jye4ever]

If I thought about it much back then, I figured that Vader was referring to spiritual, transcendent aspects of his beliefs. In ANH they even called it an 'ancient religion'.

Then in ESB Yoda made that speech about 'crude matter' so that was kind of enough for me. I don't have a problem with Force users being able to do more or show us something crazy like stopping a blaster bolt in mid-air, but I do think it all went off the rails by TROS.

Once Lucas showed them running fast and leaping great distances in the PT and then allowed the Jedi in the Force Unleashed videogames to bring down Star Destroyers the gloves were off and Superhero Jedi were born.

We went from mysterious ancient religions to Jedi Kal-El lol

Go watch that CW cartoon again yikes Mace is a beast.


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[SvenDokki]

OK so what is the common consensus on what is too much Force power? I tried to put it in context of it’s not overshadowing character and story. The force as a character, so to speak. But what do all of you think? What makes it OK, and what makes it not OK?

 

[jye4ever]

OK so what is the common consensus on what is too much Force power? I tried to put it in context of it?s not overshadowing character and story. The force as a character, so to speak. But what do all of you think? What makes it OK, and what makes it not OK?

Force Orgasm is where I draw the line.

I bet big nose lady wanted some Force Penetration with Rey though

Pinocchio without the need to lie.



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[Khev]

I think a critical point here is if others are seeing the ghosts or is it just Luke, Rey, Yoda and Obi.

Han is no less a ghost for me than the other ghosts.

What is a ghost if not a memory with a strong bond.

I always loved how the transmission images were like ghosts themselves.

Yep we know that Leia couldn't see the ghosts on Endor so even if Han was just in Kylo's head it still could have been his actual spirit.

 

[jye4ever]

Yep we know that Leia couldn't see the ghosts on Endor so even if Han was just in Kylo's head it still could have been his actual spirit.

I saw it that when Kylo finally arrived at the apex of his existence where Vader made his own last stand against the Sith he finally reached his pivotal crossroad moment does he end the Jedi right there and then or not.

He was connected to the force at his most potent level yet which meant his projection into the force maybe even unwittingly left him vulnerable just long enough for Leia to strike with her most potent weapon, bringing forth Han?s ghost to awaken Kylo so in theory Han could be viewed as the actual Force Awakens as manipulated by Leia for Kylo?s own Force Awakening Irrelevant if Kylo saw it as a memory or not

It can get real crazy when you start thinking about it all lol

Holy crap did I just make TFA a great movie!

Quick get JAWS lol


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[Asta]

Mystery solved.

Kylo wasn't seeing ghosts, he was seeing goats.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Force Orgasm is where I draw the line.

I bet big nose lady wanted some Force Penetration with Rey though

Pinocchio without the need to lie.



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[Khev]

I saw it that when Kylo finally arrived at the apex of his existence where Vader made his own last stand against the Sith he finally reached his pivotal crossroad moment does he end the Jedi right there and then or not.

He was connected to the force at his most potent level yet which meant his projection into the force maybe even unwittingly left him vulnerable just long enough for Leia to strike with her most potent weapon, bringing forth Han?s ghost to awaken Kylo so in theory Han could be viewed as the actual Force Awakens as manipulated by Leia for Kylo?s own Force Awakening Irrelevant if Kylo saw it as a memory or not

It can get real crazy when you start thinking about it all lol

Holy crap did I just make TFA a great movie!

Quick get JAWS lol

Hell yes!

 

[Khev]

No problem.

If you're in the mood for whacky Star Wars stories, then now is the time to watch those CW episodes.

Okay I watched those three episodes.

First let me say this: "Uhhhhhh."

lol

Man, that Avatar/Ewya Force crap just has no place in SW for me, lol. I do feel like the visuals of those episodes (particularly the second one where Yoda flies his ship into that dimension of light with all the floating Felucia island things and the weird masked "Force Priestesses") is probably in line with what he wanted to put on the big screen so his dismay at seeing more desert planets and TIE fighters certainly makes sense. But man to me that stuff just needs to be hinted at and referenced but not shown.

It really does stop feeling like SW to me and again becomes just another Avatar/Star Trek thing.

Interestingly enough though in the episode "Sacrifices" Palpatine does get into Yoda's head from across the galaxy and speaks to him as a fake Anakin Skywalker in order to try and break him. So I guess TROS' notion that he was pulling the strings through voices like Vader and Snoke isn't so far from what Lucas himself has already done with the character. And I guess TROS retconned the Sith homeworld as being Exegol instead of Moriband? No skin off my back. That just makes it that much easier to dismiss the entirety of the CW (and when it comes to cartoons the Tartofsky stuff is my jam anyway especially since that series literally showed events that led directly into the opening of ROTS.)

That was still interesting to watch though so again thanks for the episode numbers.

 

[FlyAndFight]

These "what if's" discussions are certainly interesting but I feel you're all giving Disney WAY too much credit.

We all here are the nerdy fans that dig deep into the Star Wars lore but I don't believe the Disney writers are in the same league. They knew just enough to attempt a continuation of the story but not enough to make it coherently interesting, let alone "deep".

Personally, I feel rather at ease now that the last sequel movie has been released. My curiosity for the final trilogy film was abated and I can honestly dismiss the entire sequel trilogy as an aberration and personally not canon. With the PT, we had bad stories interspersed with several rather good scenes and characters. With the ST, I just don't really have any memorable scenes, let alone new characters.

I never got into the cartoons, so have very little insight into their stories and can't comment as to if they are any good.

The Mandalorian has been fun so far. Not amazing but good enough to keep my interest and ponder ordering the Hot Toys figures...

 

[Khev]

These "what if's" discussions are certainly interesting but I feel you're all giving Disney WAY too much credit.

We all here are the nerdy fans that dig deep into the Star Wars lore but I don't believe the Disney writers are in the same league.

Oh of course. I know that for the writers maintaining and continuing the established canon it's like herding an army of cats with all that's been added to the lore over the past 40+ years so all I ask is that they at least get all the cats in the same *room* and then I'll do the rest to connect the dots myself. Hell if they *did* sync everything perfectly and obviously then I'd probably be a little bummed because getting to hypothesize like we have been is a huge part of the fun, lol.

 

[SvenDokki]

So are you saying watching it with kitty litter will help the sequel trilogy stink less?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

John Windu is not too old.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Okay I watched those three episodes.

First let me say this: "Uhhhhhh."

lol

Man, that Avatar/Ewya Force crap just has no place in SW for me, lol. I do feel like the visuals of those episodes (particularly the second one where Yoda flies his ship into that dimension of light with all the floating Felucia island things and the weird masked "Force Priestesses") is probably in line with what he wanted to put on the big screen so his dismay at seeing more desert planets and TIE fighters certainly makes sense. But man to me that stuff just needs to be hinted at and referenced but not shown.

It really does stop feeling like SW to me and again becomes just another Avatar/Star Trek thing.

Interestingly enough though in the episode "Sacrifices" Palpatine does get into Yoda's head from across the galaxy and speaks to him as a fake Anakin Skywalker in order to try and break him. So I guess TROS' notion that he was pulling the strings through voices like Vader and Snoke isn't so far from what Lucas himself has already done with the character. And I guess TROS retconned the Sith homeworld as being Exegol instead of Moriband? No skin off my back. That just makes it that much easier to dismiss the entirety of the CW (and when it comes to cartoons the Tartofsky stuff is my jam anyway especially since that series literally showed events that led directly into the opening of ROTS.)

That was still interesting to watch though so again thanks for the episode numbers.

I'm glad that you watched those. And, yeah, I'm with you when it comes to the mystical Force stuff getting too extrapolated and "non-Star-Warsy" in those episodes. I don't care for any of it either. But I also agree with what you said before about the value in at least having watched these stories that Lucas was more connected with. I still keep them in the back of my mind because of that GL component, but the movies are what really matters.

Now I'm going to go compose a mountain of text in the Palpatine thread in response to your latest post there. You got me worked up.

 

[Khev]

I'm glad that you watched those. And, yeah, I'm with you when it comes to the mystical Force stuff getting too extrapolated and "non-Star-Warsy" in those episodes. I don't care for any of it either. But I also agree with what you said before about the value in at least having watched these stories that Lucas was more connected with. I still keep them in the back of my mind because of that GL component, but the movies are what really matters.

Agreed!

Now I'm going to go compose a mountain of text in the Palpatine thread in response to your latest post there. You got me worked up.

Have at it.

 

[JAWS]

These "what if's" discussions are certainly interesting but I feel you're all giving Disney WAY too much credit.

We all here are the nerdy fans that dig deep into the Star Wars lore but I don't believe the Disney writers are in the same league. They knew just enough to attempt a continuation of the story but not enough to make it coherently interesting, let alone "deep".

I would agree... But as I said several pages back, that is part of the fun.

I like when there are some holes to fill in and everything isn't spelled out for us.

My imagination was much better than "chosen ones" and midichlorians.

 

[jye4ever]

Shmi Palpatine


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[ZE_501]

Once Lucas showed them running fast and leaping great distances in the PT and then allowed the Jedi in the Force Unleashed videogames to bring down Star Destroyers the gloves were off and Superhero Jedi were born.

We went from mysterious ancient religions to Jedi Kal-El lol[...]

Very true. Qui Gonn and Obi Wan tapping into the Speed Force in TPM was the wrong franchise. Someone should've warned George not to cross the streams.

I didn't play the video games but from what I saw they were straight up ridiculous. Yanking Star Destroyers outta the sky and disintegrating stormtroopers with your mind ... does not a Jedi make. Well I guess it does now.

Go watch that CW cartoon again yikes Mace is a beast. [...]

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The Tartakovsky one where he's beating up Battle Droids with his bare hands and doing other superhero stuff? Or the Filoni series? I never did see Filoni's CW in its entirety. I avoided the more kid-oriented episodes and couldn't stand what he did with the Force.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I would agree... But as I said several pages back, that is part of the fun.

I like when there are some holes to fill in and everything isn't spelled out for us.

My imagination was much better than "chosen ones" and midichlorians.

Just like AD/BC....there's OT and PT

Two types of SW fans thanks to GL. Those who grew up before the PT and those who grew up with or after the PT. There's also a "lost" generation of SW fan too, and that small group can fall into either both the OT or PT fanbase, given they're in the middle of those two time periods. I'm kind of part of the lost generation.

Anyway, you're clearly in the OT group. The one that prefers a little bit of mystery, likes the fantasy elements, and the mystery behind the mythology, making the SW universe feel larger.

 

[ZE_501]

OK so what is the common consensus on what is too much Force power? I tried to put it in context of it?s not overshadowing character and story. The force as a character, so to speak. But what do all of you think? What makes it OK, and what makes it not OK?

I really don't think there is a consensus. I would preferred it remain mysterious, requiring some concentration -- making it impractical to use too casually or in the chaotic heat of battle -- thereby making it *very* impressive if it was for instance, used by Maul to Force-push a mother*****r like it weren't no thang, the exception proving the rule.

Things like super-speed and *very* high jumps make the Jedi too invincible. (Well, invincible until they've waltzed into a kill-box to let a thousand guns surround them in the open for no good reason )

Pulling ships out of the air is too much for me. Healing is too much for me, resurrection is too much for me. I would have preferred it to be something mystical that gives someone enough edge to be scary and impressive but still leave them recognizably mortal.

Vader can asphyxiate you by giving you a dirty look. He can get bored of clashing sabers and stand still while ripping heavy machinery out of walls with his mind to beat you up. He can sense things about other Force users and has some limited telepathy on top of being a brutally strong combatant and absolutely deadly combat pilot with preternatural targeting and flying ability. He can deflect a blaster bolt with his hand and grab your gun with his mind.

Obi Wan can reach out from beyond the grave to mentor and incite the living.

To my mind all that should be enough. If the only new thing Kylo had done was freeze a blaster bolt to show he was a truly dangerous new threat, that could have been enough.

But as you say, story and character are the decisive factors on whether or not we get a good film, not the catalogue of superpowers one way or the other.