Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[a-dev]

I think it's safe to say that Rey died because Finn (who is Force sensitive now) seemed to "feel" her death. She didn't disappear-

I immediately stopped there and thought of this

 

[Khev]

If you want, I can track down definitive proof for you that the Force ghost training has very much been canon since Lucas specified it in the PT era. Dave Filoni has spoken very specifically about the training aspect to become a Force ghost. He got it directly from George's notes and conversations with him, and he used that in the animated shows.

Ah yes I wonder if it might have been some goofy new thing that he put in the cartoons. Sure if you're privy to a direct link (or episode since I have Disney+) I'd be happy to check it out.

But, whatever you want to consider your own canon is certainly fair. And even within accepted canon, there's plenty of room for subjective interpretation that can make things more aligned with our own preferences. I'm sure we've all had to rely on that at one point or another as this Force stuff has gotten more and more convoluted over the years.

Yes I tend to ignore all EU even though it's "official" canon. I ignored the Lucas EU (except Dark Empire which I just always thought was cool) and I ignore the Disney comics too. And according to "they fly now" TROS ignores the Disney EU as well. So I do pick and choose "official" canon from peripheral shows and media and when it contradicts OT canon (like having to train to become a ghost which Anakin clearly did not) then I tend to discard it.

The Mandalorian is 100% in the "it really happened" category for me though.

 

[chewblacca]

Ok, but seeing as how all the jedi were in Rey, then wouldn't it make sense for her to be automatically forced trained to be a spirit. Like how she learned the force from Kylo when they were linked? So the jedi could use Rey, but not take her when her life left her?

 

[Khev]

I immediately stopped there and thought of this

 

[ironwez20]

Wrong. PT is still way worse then the ST.

Nah son. Lol stop being blind to Disney. Gimme one memorable line from this trilogy that stuck with you.

 

[Prime Clone]

And according to "they fly now" TROS ignores the Disney EU as well.

Pretty sure terrestrial jet troopers were new.

/pedantry

 

[ironwez20]

Or it could be a murderer imagining his victim forgiving him.

I'm on the "memory" camp. I don't think Han was ever there. It's all in Kylo's head.



Actually, I think the PT relied on nostalgia equally with the ST. The PT was all about the fall of the Jedi and the origin of Vader. That was the main draw to it IMO.

All SW movies since the OT relied on nostalgia. This is why they do so well in the USA, and less well elsewhere.

Nah. ST relies way to much on bringing a character back or a thing or situation to reel in that nostalgia

 

[Captain Clown]

Eh, the PT is guilty of nostalgia bait too. Chewbacca's inclusion and Anakin building C-3po come to mind. It's definitely not as on-the-nose as the Disney movies though.

 

[ironwez20]

Eh, the PT is guilty of nostalgia bait too. Chewbacca's inclusion and Anakin building C-3po come to mind. It's definitely not as on-the-nose as the Disney movies though.

I understand Chewbacca but what?s with people saying anakin building c3po was nostalgia. I just thought it was weird.

 

[ironwez20]

Yeah, the Anakin ghost requires that awkward explanation from back in the day that Kenobi and Yoda managed to save/guide Anakin's spirit. Anakin getting to be a happy ghost is always going to be a weird one that'll be hard for me to accept for lots of reasons.



If you want, I can track down definitive proof for you that the Force ghost training has very much been canon since Lucas specified it in the PT era. Dave Filoni has spoken very specifically about the training aspect to become a Force ghost. He got it directly from George's notes and conversations with him, and he used that in the animated shows.

But, whatever you want to consider your own canon is certainly fair. And even within accepted canon, there's plenty of room for subjective interpretation that can make things more aligned with our own preferences. I'm sure we've all had to rely on that at one point or another as this Force stuff has gotten more and more convoluted over the years.

Lmao. Even tho I like the ending it?s still weird. You can kill millions of people and children and do one right thing and still be happy in the end.

Maybe it?s cause he finally succeeded in destroying darth Vader and came back as anakin

 

[Captain Clown]

I understand Chewbacca but what?s with people saying anakin building c3po was nostalgia. I just thought it was weird.

It just "rhymes" too much for my liking personally, like having Joker be the one who killed Batman's parents in Batman 89, or the opening scene of Last Crusade explaining how Indy got most of his character traits, even Ford's chin scar. I think it was fine having C-3po be a random droid that Luke bought.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Ah yes I wonder if it might have been some goofy new thing that he put in the cartoons. Sure if you're privy to a direct link (or episode since I have Disney+) I'd be happy to check it out.

As far as the animated episodes go, there's a 3-part story in CW where Yoda goes to learn about the Force ghost manifestation (aka eternal life) that Qui-Gon discovered. I personally find the episodes far too bizarre for my liking, but if you're willing to sit through them on Disney+, they are from Season 6 - episode #'s 11, 12, & 13 (titled: "Voices," "Destiny," and "Sacrifice").

The Rebels show gets even more out there, and I'll provide a link below to an interview Filoni did about a couple of key episodes from that. The key takeaway from it for this discussion is the quote below:

". . . I learned from George that being a force ghost isn't just as easy as dying and then you reappear. There's actually a whole philosophy and methodology around it that we got into in Clone Wars with Yoda and Qui-Gon and how Jedi in the prequel era don't actually believe that you can maintain your own individual consciousness after death. They believe you're part of the living force at first and then you pass on and become part of the cosmic force and part of the whole."

But I'm pretty sure that Filoni has been more specific about the idea of *training* for Force ghost manifestation; I just can't find the references right now. I'll post them if/when I do.

Full article link for the quote above: https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/dave-...rge-lucas-and-tolkien-impact-star-wars-rebels

 

[Khev]

As far as the animated episodes go, there's a 3-part story in CW where Yoda goes to learn about the Force ghost manifestation (aka eternal life) that Qui-Gon discovered. I personally find the episodes far too bizarre for my liking, but if you're willing to sit through them on Disney+, they are from Season 6 - episode #'s 11, 12, & 13 (titled: "Voices," "Destiny," and "Sacrifice").

The Rebels show gets even more out there, and I'll provide a link below to an interview Filoni did about a couple of key episodes from that. The key takeaway from it for this discussion is the quote below:



But I'm pretty sure that Filoni has been more specific about the idea of *training* for Force ghost manifestation; I just can't find the references right now. I'll post them if/when I do.

Full article link for the quote above: https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/dave-...rge-lucas-and-tolkien-impact-star-wars-rebels

Thanks! I wasn't being facetious, I actually am kind of in the mood to check that stuff out. Not because I plan on "accepting it" per se but I am curious to at least know what might have been in George's head. Just like I'd love to hear all the crazy details of where he wanted the story to go with his "microbiotic universe of Whills" who inhabit the bodies of human beings and all that.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Thanks! I wasn't being facetious, I actually am kind of in the mood to check that stuff out. Not because I plan on "accepting it" per se but I am curious to at least know what might have been in George's head. Just like I'd love to hear all the crazy details of where he wanted the story to go with his "microbiotic universe of Whills" who inhabit the bodies of human beings and all that.

No problem.

If you're in the mood for whacky Star Wars stories, then now is the time to watch those CW episodes.

 

[e30ernest]

Kylo reviving Rey with a kiss is the single most Disney thing ever. It's straight out of Snow White.

To be fair, Rey was already alive when they kissed, so it was consensual, unlike Snow White's!

Then again, if the theory is true, that Palpatine created Anakin with his Force seed... and Rey is Palpatine's granddaughter...

It really runs in the family...

 

[ironwez20]

It just "rhymes" too much for my liking personally, like having Joker be the one who killed Batman's parents in Batman 89, or the opening scene of Last Crusade explaining how Indy got most of his character traits, even Ford's chin scar. I think it was fine having C-3po be a random droid that Luke bought.

Lmao I always hated the idea that joker killed Batman?s parents to. That just like green goblin shooting uncle ben.

 

[DiFabio]

Well...

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[SvenDokki]

All this expanded force nonsense has certainly cheapened the cool factor of it.

When Yoda lifted Luke's X Wing out of Dagobah swamp...awesome!

When Rey stops a spacecraft in midair and shoots it with a bolt of lightning...yeeeeeah ok whatever

It's not even the force anymore, it's just a ridiculous excuse to do anything you want.

so you figure Vader was exaggerating in the original film?

Lucas makes it sound amazing. But then he shows it to mostly be doing parlor tricks. But if you do anything too big with it, people start complaining. So how do you reconcile all the dialogue to parlor tricks? How is that any better?

I don’t think story, characters and character development should be usurped. I do think if you treat the force as a character, and anyone who uses it as a character in relationship to the force, many of the writing issues may be overcome.

 

[ZE_501]

so you figure Vader was exaggerating in the original film?

Lucas makes it sound amazing. But then he shows it to mostly be doing parlor tricks. But if you do anything too big with it, people start complaining. So how do you reconcile all the dialogue to parlor tricks? How is that any better?

I don’t think story, characters and character development should be usurped. I do think if you treat the force as a character, and anyone who uses it as a character in relationship to the force, many of the writing issues may be overcome.

If I thought about it much back then, I figured that Vader was referring to spiritual, transcendent aspects of his beliefs. In ANH they even called it an 'ancient religion'.

Then in ESB Yoda made that speech about 'crude matter' so that was kind of enough for me. I don't have a problem with Force users being able to do more or show us something crazy like stopping a blaster bolt in mid-air, but I do think it all went off the rails by TROS.

 

[jye4ever]

Good post. However I disagree that it was canon that you must train to be a Force ghost. Because going all the way back to 1983 ROTJ showed us that someone (Anakin) can indeed become a Force ghost without training and without having their body disappear.

What I think now is that what training does is determine how much control you have *as* a ghost with regard to interacting with the physical world. If you're not a Jedi or were a Jedi who didn't study that particular discipline then you just go to "Force heaven" (or hell, or wherever) when you die to live as a spirit for eternity with no contact or possibly even recollection of the physical world. Unless someone with the appropriate abilities helps you retain a link with the physical world, which Ben and Yoda did for Anakin and Leia could have done for Han.

So when Rey died it was just as a normal person would, oblivious to any skills that would allow her to disappear and then willfully interact with the living as a ghost. Ben Solo, like you said, would have been privy to those extra teachings and therefore disappeared when he did. I *do* think that it's a Light Side power and that if you forsake a link to that side of the Force then you won't disappear, ie if he had died as murderous Kylo in say TFA then that particular ability would have been forfeit.

I think a critical point here is if others are seeing the ghosts or is it just Luke, Rey, Yoda and Obi.

Han is no less a ghost for me than the other ghosts.

What is a ghost if not a memory with a strong bond.

I always loved how the transmission images were like ghosts themselves.

Luke astral projection was so laser sharp he was using The Force 5G network lol




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