Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Just back from the cinema....wasnt going to bother with it after TLJ disaster but I must say I enjoyed it.
Maybe because I wasnt expecting much. Only thing that annoys me is Finn....3 bloody films only shouting.

And sweating. The ultimate defense against force choke, a slippery neck.

 

[TaliBane]

No that was legit Palpatine who did indeed die in ROTJ even according to TROS. It was the Sith Eternal Cult that was able to bring him back through dark magic mixed with cloning tech but they're gone now too.

So the guy (or... half-a-guy) in the strobe lighting seen in TROS is a clone - of who/what? Didn't all of Palps's (who died in ROTJ) DNA get obliterated on the DSII?

But then they show his DSII office has survived, inferring that Palps himself might have somehow survived. It's these things that make it all such a muddle.

And if they had Palps' DNA from 35 years earlier all along, why did they create Snoke? Was Snoke created from someone else, or a sort of early Palps clone version? If so, why are there a lot of little Snokes there in the lab at the same time actual Palps is hovering on the crane nearby?

 

[Wor-Gar]

Easy: Snoke was created because at the time they had no idea that he wasn't going to be the Big Bad. Once RJ decided to kill him off, then it opened the door for a replacement villain -- one they had to either make up (Trevorrow's Valum) or return (Palpatine).

Trying to make sense of it within the story universe makes no sense at all.

 

[jye4ever]

Sheesh did everyone forget what Sidious said in ROTS.

What some might consider to be....

UN NA TUR AL!

Khev and I are two of those somes lol






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[e30ernest]

? In Vader's Temple, Kylo finds a Sith Holocron which reveals a hologram of Palpatine. Recording is for Vader. Palpatine has a contingency for Vader if Luke kills him. Vader is to take Luke to the Remnicore (?) System to see TOR VALUM, Master of Sith/Palpatine's Teacher.

I like how the Holocron gives away its secrets first, then scans later. Very smart design!

 

[Khev]

So the guy (or... half-a-guy) in the strobe lighting seen in TROS is a clone - of who/what? Didn't all of Palps's (who died in ROTJ) DNA get obliterated on the DSII?

But then they show his DSII office has survived, inferring that Palps himself might have somehow survived. It's these things that make it all such a muddle.

Well since we're on the Mt. Everest of fantasy here maybe the cultists used their dark magic to simply call the literal physical atoms that used to be his body back into form (or half a form.) Then they did a second ritual that pulled his spirit out of the netherworld and back into his partially reconstructed body. Maybe it was like Monkey's Paw or something where his body was restored to the moment his spirit left, mid-explosion in the reactor shaft.

When Palps wakes up, he realizes he's alive with thousands of servants and says I can't continue on like this, I need a body (Rey) but in the meantime there's work to do so let's create some extra vessels (Snokes) that I can inhabit from time to time to start creating some chaos that will set the stage for my return.

I'm sure you could come up with your own scenario but I'd say that there's enough to work with if you really wanted to spell out your own "unnatural path" as jye mentions above.

And if they had Palps' DNA from 35 years earlier all along, why did they create Snoke? Was Snoke created from someone else, or a sort of early Palps clone version? If so, why are there a lot of little Snokes there in the lab at the same time actual Palps is hovering on the crane nearby?

See above. I don't think that Snoke can be a prototype Palpatine clone due to him saying "I made Snoke." So if you take him at his word then he had the Snokes created after he was revived to assumedly be his arms and legs for a period of time until he was ready to fully reveal himself.

Easy: Snoke was created because at the time they had no idea that he wasn't going to be the Big Bad. Once RJ decided to kill him off, then it opened the door for a replacement villain -- one they had to either make up (Trevorrow's Valum) or return (Palpatine).

Yep, just like ROTJ. They had a number ways they could go until George said eh how do we wrap this up I know let's bring the Death Star back (and Tatooine, and Dagobah, lol) and then just have everybody fight. So George brought back the Death Star, JJ brought back Palpatine. At least the plot of TROS itself syncs up better with what came before than ROTJ did (unless you're a stickler for Anakin needing to be the one who singularly and permanently puts down Palpatine of course.)

Sheesh did everyone forget what Sidious said in ROTS.

What some might consider to be....

UN NA TUR AL!

Khev and I are two of those somes lol

Yes we are, lol.

I like how the Holocron gives away its secrets first, then scans later. Very smart design!

 

[DiFabio]

The sad thing in here is, people are probably spending more time analyzing the story and trying to make sense of it than the writers did thinking it up.

 

[Khev]

Well some of us have been doing that since 1977 so I don't know why that would change now, lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Yep, just like ROTJ. So George brought back the Death Star, JJ brought back Palpatine.

So TROS Palps is Palps II...? Interesting. Like the Proto-Joker that Jye hates so much... because he's not 'real'.

 

[Khev]

While ROTJ Palps is falling down the shaft he temporarily imagines himself dancing down the steps of the throne on Exegol, lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Jye needs to make a meme of Proto-Palpatine (Propatine) kicking on his throne steps in Joker face.

 

[jye4ever]

Leaked image of Trevorrow new sith villain.

Yikes!

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[Khev]

 

[jye4ever]

Wait what was I supposed to create again I can?t keep up lol


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[Khev]

All of the ST is his fantasy as he falls and when Rey blows him up that is his fantasy coming to an end as he blows up for real.

 

[Khev]

Watching TLJ on Disney+ and TROS actually syncs up surprisingly well for a finale that wasn't planned out in advance. Snoke saying to Kylo "the strength of your lineage, a new...Vaderrrr" in that weird semi-orgasmic way that Palpatine would speak in ROTS. And Poe asking how Finn and Rose met and Finn hesitating to say what pulled them together before Rose says "luck." And then just now Luke teaching Rey on the rock and saying "you went straight to the dark, and didnt even resist." Really takes on a whole new meaning now.

Edit: Oh geez the Broadway musical "slave children" just made an appearance, lol.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Leaked image of Trevorrow new sith villain.

Yikes!

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Jared Leto looks cool in Morbius.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Wait what was I supposed to create again I can?t keep up lol

I'll take it. Prototine.

All of the ST is his fantasy ....

The end of TROS should have been Palpatine waking up at the bottom of that Death Star shaft after it crashed on the Wave Planet... he just looks around and crawls away giggling to himself about his future fantasy...

 

[TaliBane]

Well since we're on the Mt. Everest of fantasy here maybe the cultists used their dark magic to simply call the literal physical atoms that used to be his body back into form (or half a form.) Then they did a second ritual that pulled his spirit out of the netherworld and back into his partially reconstructed body. Maybe it was like Monkey's Paw or something where his body was restored to the moment his spirit left, mid-explosion in the reactor shaft.

But aren't those cultists like the masked people in Eyes Wide Shut? Regular-type people, maybe rich/lords, who are drawn as part of a cult? I didn't expect all those acolytes to have force/Sith type powers (hell no one's even sure they were real entities - they never seem to do anything) - is that how you see it? If so, wouldn't any of them be as good of a "force user" match that Rey is?

And uh... what you're describing seems WAY out there, even for space wizards and little green masters with long ears etc. The air is Everest-thin in this discussion no matter what.

When Palps wakes up, he realizes he's alive with thousands of servants and says I can't continue on like this, I need a body (Rey) but in the meantime there's work to do so let's create some extra vessels (Snokes) that I can inhabit from time to time to start creating some chaos that will set the stage for my return.

You mean he "wakes up" as like a ghost? If he's conscious and everything, why does he even need a body?

I'm sure you could come up with your own scenario but I'd say that there's enough to work with if you really wanted to spell out your own "unnatural path" as jye mentions above.

Yeah, that ROTS line is getting the most major scaffloding workout of any line in cinema history (mostly because it's incredibly vague to a point of "could mean absolutely anything".)

See above. I don't think that Snoke can be a prototype Palpatine clone due to him saying "I made Snoke." So if you take him at his word then he had the Snokes created after he was revived to assumedly be his arms and legs for a period of time until he was ready to fully reveal himself.

But Snoke seems like he's been around for many years (did he suddenly appear from nowhere? that's a bit of a weird situation - "hi, my name's Snoke, you've never heard of me and I have no history, but I'm going to be your boss") and so why was he seemingly easy/fast to create and Palps's new body took so long?

And if Palp's body is coming along nicely (seems to grow in real time at one poiint) why doesn't he just grow a whole new Palps body (like he has with Snoke) and use that?

The reality is, what's onscreen is so incredibly vague, it's almost impossible to discuss/figure out. They basically put a whole bunch of stuff (Sidious's "unnatural" line, Snokes in jars, Palps' DSII office intact, etc) in a blender, enabling almost anything, or any combination of anything, to be made up to explain it.

Yep, just like ROTJ. They had a number ways they could go until George said eh how do we wrap this up I know let's bring the Death Star back (and Tatooine, and Dagobah, lol) and then just have everybody fight. So George brought back the Death Star, JJ brought back Palpatine. At least the plot of TROS itself syncs up better with what came before than ROTJ did (unless you're a stickler for Anakin needing to be the one who singularly and permanently puts down Palpatine of course.)
l

Yeah but these myth stories have a cyclical nature though. That second Death Star could have been Luke's to rule this time, so it has symbloism, and the return to his childhood home of Tatooine (could have) had some real power as he returned so different to how he left. So those elements were necessary to some degree.

The issue I have with TROS is that it doesn't feel like cycling back - there's really no major antagonist in TFA and TLJ, and it's a stretch to see Palps' influence there (mostly because we all know his return was only brainstormed 18 months ago.)

All that being said, I still love that Palps was brought back - mostly because a real villain finally showed up in the ST, and he's so much fun to watch. As silly as it was - and it was super silly, far-far beyond any OT silliness - I had a lot of fun with it. I'm hoping Kheev can help me make peace with that silliness.

 

[ironwez20]

Watching TLJ on Disney+ and TROS actually syncs up surprisingly well for a finale that wasn't planned out in advance. Snoke saying to Kylo "the strength of your lineage, a new...Vaderrrr" in that weird semi-orgasmic way that Palpatine would speak in ROTS. And Poe asking how Finn and Rose met and Finn hesitating to say what pulled them together before Rose says "luck." And then just now Luke teaching Rey on the rock and saying "you went straight to the dark, and didnt even resist." Really takes on a whole new meaning now.

Edit: Oh geez the Broadway musical "slave children" just made an appearance, lol.

Lol no it doesn?t. Nothing about it syncs up. Only thing I can think of is ghost Luke and rose