Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

Collector Freaks Forum

Help Support Collector Freaks Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Sheesh did everyone forget what Sidious said in ROTS.

What some might consider to be....

UN NA TUR AL!

Khev and I are two of those somes lol

Yes we are, lol.
lol.gif
lol.gif

Are you male and female and Jedi, or is that your coming out statement? That you both make hot sweet Sith together? :horror

The sad thing in here is, people are probably spending more time analyzing the story and trying to make sense of it than the writers did thinking it up.
lol.gif
No doubt about that.

The reality is, what's onscreen is so incredibly vague, it's almost impossible to discuss/figure out. They basically put a whole bunch of stuff (Sidious's "unnatural" line, Snokes in jars, Palps' DSII office intact, etc) in a blender, enabling almost anything, or any combination of anything, to be made up to explain it.
Exactly. Disney told Abrams to make things vague on purpose. Since fans have been reasoning out the plot holes and messes since '77, they figure "Let the fans figure all the vagueness out, and we go in and use the most cheaply produced and all-inclusive-compatable answers to fill in the blanks with future media. When that fails, we will just bring in a Baby Yoda and make him dance on YouTube.

Lol no it doesn?t. Nothing about it syncs up. Only thing I can think of is ghost Luke and rose
"I can do anything you can do better... I can do anything better than you." "No you can't!" "Yes I can!" "No you can't!" "Yes I can!" ad infinitum. :rotfl
 
No that was legit Palpatine who did indeed die in ROTJ even according to TROS. It was the Sith Eternal Cult that was able to bring him back through dark magic mixed with cloning tech but they're gone now too.

Since Sith are eternal, then he can't really be dead even now, can he? It's like Luke says in TROS trailer, no one is ever really gone. Maybe he'll come back as the great grandson of Jar Jar, Sith extraordinaire!
 
But aren't those cultists like the masked people in Eyes Wide Shut? Regular-type people, maybe rich/lords, who are drawn as part of a cult?

In a word yes, and your reference to EWS is really quite apt (maybe even down to the freaky masked orgies, Rey had to be conceived somehow, lol.) The Visual Dictionary (which I'm somewhat open to accept as canon since it was written prior to the release of TROS) states that it is a secret society comprised substantially of high ranking officials throughout the galaxy, including those who oversee the most prominent "shipyards." It was the latter group who had been smuggling Star Destroyer parts to the Unknown Regions where they spent decades assembling the Final Order fleet in massive underground factories. I believe it is also stated that Exegol the planet has its own population friendly to the Sith (mostly the offspring of the Sith Eternal Cultists who I assume also live in subterranean cities due to the harsh landscape and freaky lightning everywhere above ground) and it was that population that manned the hundreds (or was it thousands?) of Star Destroyers.

As for the actual cultists in the bleachers I don't see them as being Force users per se. Not like Jedi or Sith anyway. "Dark magic" to me implies rituals and things where specific incantations must be spoken, material components must be provided, possibly even human sacrifice, you know normal "D&D" type evil magic that only allows them to commune with the dead, call the dead, or request help from the dead.

You mean he "wakes up" as like a ghost? If he's conscious and everything, why does he even need a body?

No he wakes up in the mangled body that the cultists were able to partially restore.

Yeah, that ROTS line is getting the most major scaffloding workout of any line in cinema history (mostly because it's incredibly vague to a point of "could mean absolutely anything".)

Yep, which in no way is to the film's detriment for me. In fact it's probably *good* that they didn't explain it any further because there'd be a good chance that their explanation would "break" some other established rule, lol. And I say it's no detriment to leave it "Dark Side...paths that are unnatural," and so on is because I never really need to know how some person or creature gets resurrected in a fantasy movie unless it provides a necessary MacGuffin for the heroes to pursue or destroy (like HP holcroxes or the One Ring.) Otherwise if Harry Potter or Gandalf makes something sparkly come out of their wand or staff I'm good with the explanation simply being "magic," the end. :)

Other people really need to know the "science" of the magic (not necessarily you of course), I personally don't. Now if Palpatine just walked into a room and said "Hey guys, miss me?" with no lip service whatsoever to *any* method for his return, then yeah I'd go um what the hell, lol. But in the SW universe I'm fine with "dark magic mixed with cloning tech" being the vague explanation that we can theorize about on our own.

All that being said, I still love that Palps was brought back - mostly because a real villain finally showed up in the ST, and he's so much fun to watch. As silly as it was - and it was super silly, far-far beyond any OT silliness - I had a lot of fun with it. I'm hoping Kheev can help me make peace with that silliness.:yess::lol

Well again this a movie that features a "grateful" snake and a knife carved to sync up with 30 year old DS debris so yeah you either embrace the silliness or you don't. :) I do agree on having Ian as Palps return. He's just so damn fun to watch and like you said he's way more "pulpy" (maybe even moreso than Thulsa Doom himself, lol) in this than he's ever been before.
 
Last edited:

:lol :lol

And check this out jye. Watching TLJ last night I thought okay how the heck do we make sense of this nonsensical "mirror cave" that Rey goes into.

Then it hit me. Palpatine was brought back by dark magic and cloning tech. Rey herself is a Palpatine. She is pulled into a Dark Side cave and sees a huge line of "Palpatine" clones. She was seeking information about who she was and so the Force gave her a visual that hinted to the nature of her bloodline. Well? Well? How'd I do. :D
 
:lol :lol

And check this out jye. Watching TLJ last night I thought okay how the heck do we make sense of this nonsensical "mirror cave" that Rey goes into.

Then it hit me. Palpatine was brought back by dark magic and cloning tech. Rey herself is a Palpatine. She is pulled into a Dark Side cave and sees a huge line of "Palpatine" clones. She was seeking information about who she was and so the Force gave her a visual that hinted to the nature of her bloodline. Well? Well? How'd I do. :D

Thats..thats..thats just beautiful man.....

Khev you will always be the SW beacon of hope that pulls me away from the DiFabio darkness grip of certain doom lol

It also just hit me this morning what it is that I liked about all of those acolytes in the stadium.

I have always always always wondered about those dark clothed politicians sycophants having an audience with the emperor in ROTJ so I was very giddy to see that expanded upon in TROS.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thats..thats..thats just beautiful man.....

Khev you will always be the SW beacon of hope that pulls me away from the DiFabio darkness grip of certain doom lol

:yess: lol

It also just hit me this morning what it is that I liked about all of those acolytes in the stadium.

I have always always always wondered about those dark clothed politicians sycophants having an audience with the emperor in ROTJ so I was very giddy to see that expanded upon in TROS.

I know right! Ever since Vader was labeled the "Dark Lord OF the Sith," I always wondered what that could mean and who it would include (before George introduced the dumb "only two" idea.) Then like you said in ROTJ we see these mysterious guards in robes and the dignitaries having private meetings with Palps which of course caused me to wonder who they were delegates for and just how many underlings there are, totally separate from the militaristic Empire, that are out their hiding in the shadows and working with Palps in secret.

And now finally with TROS we actually get to see the full scale of the dark society that's been behind the scenes for decades, all in audience for the final showdown. I freaking love that.
 
:yess: lol



I know right! Ever since Vader was labeled the "Dark Lord OF the Sith," I always wondered what that could mean and who it would include (before George introduced the dumb "only two" idea.) Then like you said in ROTJ we see these mysterious guards in robes and the dignitaries having private meetings with Palps which of course caused me to wonder who they were delegates for and just how many underlings there are, totally separate from the militaristic Empire, that are out their hiding in the shadows and working with Palps in secret.

And now finally with TROS we actually get to see the full scale of the dark society that's been behind the scenes for decades, all in audience for the final showdown. I freaking love that.

Wait until Talibane learns that Einstein was just as vague explaining his theory of relativity...

e6108745adac8d7ed2f2a57cb050695f.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
But Snoke seems like he's been around for many years (did he suddenly appear from nowhere? that's a bit of a weird situation - "hi, my name's Snoke, you've never heard of me and I have no history, but I'm going to be your boss") and so why was he seemingly easy/fast to create and Palps's new body took so long?

I think it's strongly implied that Snoke was the Supreme Leader of the FO for quite a while. In fact, if Snoke was Palpatine all along, then it would be a virtual certainty that he was in charge of the FO throughout its existence. That means that Palpatine was Snoke for more than two decades. Pretty much immediately after ROTJ. :slap
 
Rey herself is a Palpatine. She is pulled into a Dark Side cave and sees a huge line of "Palpatine" clones. She was seeking information about who she was and so the Force gave her a visual that hinted to the nature of her bloodline.

In the most silly contrived way that explains nothing... an endless line of herself. Who is she? She's..... her?

Luke's face in Vader's mask made a daring and foreboding revelation... that generated an actual question that carried through to the end.

Rey seeing herself walk up through the frosted glass answered nothing and was a simple "out" for the writers to later plant any explanation in and make it work. If she had seen Palpatine through the haze -- now that would have generated endless debate.

Maybe now Disney needs their own Special Edition to better glue this trilogy together now that they know what they did.
 
I think it's strongly implied that Snoke was the Supreme Leader of the FO for quite a while. In fact, if Snoke was Palpatine all along, then it would be a virtual certainty that he was in charge of the FO throughout its existence. That means that Palpatine was Snoke for more than two decades. Pretty much immediately after ROTJ. :slap

There's nothing in the films that requires Snoke to have been the leader of the FO all along. It could have started out with Palps coordinating a secret regathering of various Imperial warlords like Moff Gideon and all their troops who only had limited info as to who they reported to (maybe Snoke in name or maybe some other high ranking member like Pryde who secretly reported to Palps/Snoke.) They start kidnapping kids to "regrow" their army and then as the kids come of age they are advised the identity of their true Supreme Leader and any of the old guard that have a problem with it are either put down or transferred to Exegol. Either scenario would explain why the First Order has so many younger officers compared to the Empire/Final Order.

Maybe now Disney needs their own Special Edition to better glue this trilogy together now that they know what they did.

We all know that Snoke being Palpatine is a retcon and that previous films didn't hint at it since it wasn't yet part of the plan. You don't need to mention that with every post like it's breaking news. ;)

Just like in ANH Anakin and Vader were two different people but ESB fused them into one. In ESB Leia and the "other" were two different people and ROTJ fused them into one. Now we have Snoke and Palpatine starting out as two different people but also ultimately being fused into one. Obviously we can look at previous films for all the aforementioned characters and see pretty obvious evidence that they weren't originally intended to be who they turned out to be but that doesn't mean that we can't go with the retcon and recontextualize the prior films to fit. Again it's not like SW hasn't done this before.
 
We all know that Snoke being Palpatine is a retcon and that previous films didn't hint at it since it wasn't yet part of the plan. You don't need to mention that with every post like it's breaking news. ;)

Have I been mentioning that Disney needs to do an SE to make it all coherent now? Strange, I thought this was my first post stating that angle.

In ESB Leia and the "other" were two different people and ROTJ fused them into one.

Now see, that's just not true. By ESB, I believe Lucas had a pretty good idea that Luke and Leia would be siblings despite "the kiss" that seem to get so many little kids' testosterone pumping. I mean, the end with Leia 'feeling' Luke hanging outside Cloud City was a telltale sign that Leia was connected to Luke -- more than a kiss. I walked out of ESB convinced the next "reveal" was that Leia was his sister. I'm sure some people were fooled -- but then again, many people thought Vader was lying in 1980 and it would be cleared up in three years. They never stopped to think how lame it would have been if Vader was simply lying -- its a dumb way to leave you hanging, on a lie.

There's no excuse for the ANH lie, Ben's lie... an awkward work-around that started them all I guess. But going from a planned one-off movie to a major franchise, one can forgive the lack of foresight in that case. Later on, especially decades later, with a galaxy of history to build from, its simply lazy and/or ignorant for anything similar.
 
In other words it bombed lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, in South Korea:monkey3:cool:
Universal?s ?Dolittle? crushed ?Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker? in an unusual opening weekend clash at the South Korean box office.

?Dolittle? accounted for 40% of the nationwide theatrical total as it earned $5.37 million over the weekend from 718,000 tickets. That put it in first place and knocked Korean volcano disaster movie ?Ashfall? from the top spot that it had occupied for three weeks. ?Dolittle? had opened on Wednesday, and, including the week days, its five-day cumulative score was $6.84 million.

Korea was one of the first territories to get ?Dolittle? and one of the last major markets to open Disney?s ?Skywalker.? The two films enjoyed 1,290 screens and 948 screens respectively, pointing to an inferior per screen average for ?Skywalker.?
 
Now see, that's just not true.

It's true. George said that he only threw the line in there to make the audience think that Luke was expendable and increase the tension when he faced Vader. Gary Kurtz openly stated that the "other" was going to be his sister but not Leia. Even the film itself doesn't allow for it. Yoda tells Luke not to go help his friends and to "sacrifice" them if he honors what they fight for, but then when Ben says Luke is their last hope Yoda says "no, there is also the girl that is about to be sacrificed if he fails." See it doesn't work (without TROS level retroactive hand-waving of course.) :)

Luke calling Leia telepathically was just him reaching out to the person he had the strongest emotional bond with, which fortunately for George did add convenience to the retcon just like Snoke previously saying Palpatine-esque lines like "It was *I* who bridged your minds..." only adds convenience to its respective retcon.
 
It's true. George said that he only threw the line in there to make the audience think that Luke was expendable and increase the tension when he faced Vader. Gary Kurtz openly stated that the "other" was going to be his sister but not Leia. Even the film itself doesn't allow for it. Yoda tells Luke not to go help his friends and to "sacrifice" them if he honors what they fight for, but then when Ben says Luke is their last hope Yoda says "no, there is also the girl that is about to be sacrificed if he fails." See it doesn't work (without TROS level retroactive hand-waving of course.) :)

Luke calling Leia telepathically was just him reaching out to the person he had the strongest emotional bond with, which fortunately for George did add convenience to the retcon just like Snoke previously saying Palpatine-esque lines like "It was *I* who bridged your minds..." only adds convenience to its respective retcon.

I didn't understand it that way in 1980. I don't remember any talk about another sister out there except as possbily deflection. That's not to say that anyone from Lucasville ever stated then that Leia was his sister because that would have burned the gag, but it seemed to be set up much more cleanly than many other things. Also, my best friend's sister worked at Lucasfilm at the time so I had more information than the general public for three years about what was going on.

Unfortunately trusting anything George has said after the fact coupled with his retconned history makes it impossible to prove one way or the other. I have only my own memory of that time and a great understanding of all things Star wars back then.





BTW, have I mentioned that Disney should do their own version of the SE to make their trilogy more coherent?
 
Back
Top