Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Khev]

Well yes, they would be good, but I thought we were assuming GL was making them and he'd make more of the same casting mistakes.

Yes of course, I just couldn't resist trying to "correct" the mistakes that he already made in this made up hypothetical alternate universe, lol.

 

[The Buffinator]

Yes of course, I just couldn't resist trying to "correct" the mistakes that he already made in this made up hypothetical alternate universe, lol.

So who would have you cast for Finn and Poe? I think Han never meeting Poe was a missed opportunity. I could see Han telling Leia he didn't like the guy, and Leia responding incredulously "How could you not? He's YOU!" lol

 

[Khev]

So who would have you cast for Finn and Poe?

Hmm, maybe Chiwetel Ejiofor (Love Actually, 12 Years a Slave) and Ethan Hawke?

I think Han never meeting Poe was a missed opportunity. I could see Han telling Leia he didn't like the guy, and Leia responding incredulously "How could you not? He's YOU!" lol

Funnily enough Han *was* supposed to say "I like this guy" in reference to Poe when they were discussing the attack on Starkiller Base in TFA and Poe is actually who he's pointing at. But when they were assembling the final cut Abrams thought it was more important for Finn to get Han's endorsement so he re-edited it to make it seem like Han was pointing at Finn.

 

[JAWS]

Ha ha, great point. He really screwed himself with that one didn't he, lol. Live by polls, die by polls. He now is forced to admit that 2/3 of the PT are dead last and horrible and that it is a "proven fact" that it is so.

He wont accept that though.. He will just say we are talkin about ROTS.

Problem is.. When just talking about a Fav SW film and allowing only one vote then you are not doing a true rankin. So when Empire takes the majority of the fav vote we don't know how the majority of the people feel about the rest of the films..

And that is why the ranking poll is the most relevant

And that poll goes...

ESB
ANH
ROTJ
RO
TFA
TLJ
ROTS
AOTC
TPM

Let me explain it one more way..

If the vote for the best goes like this

Empire is number 1 with 2000 votes out of 2500
ROTS is number 2 with 100 votes

and the worst goes like this

AOTC is number 1 with 2000 votes
ROTS is #4 with 20 votes

None of this accounts for all the people who might think its the 2nd or 3rd worst film of the series. It just might get over 1500 votes from people to be 2nd worst??

So is it one of the best if 100 people think its the best but 1500 think its the 2nd worst?



Now mind you this is the same site form the same article that Monkey stated proved him right.

But he and aussibott failed to look at once you pick a fav or least fav you cant pick anything more.. But once you are allowed to rank them... Well things can look a lot different.. The only thing that will remain consistent is that the Most loved and most hated should remain the same.



Now I personally to put much into polls. Peoples moods and tastes change all the time. But I think the point has been made of how these polls work against ROTS and the PT as a whole.

And I don't even agree with ranking of having some of the PT as low as they are.


Khev and Jye

 

[JAWS]

Guys I've carried an independent survey of a very balanced Star Wars fan and these are the results (the word definitive gets thrown around a lot but this is probably the most definitive list you are ever going to see in this thread... it's ahem my list):

Good read.. I don't agree with everything but I enjoyed your take.

 

[The Buffinator]

Hmm, maybe Chiwetel Ejiofor (Love Actually, 12 Years a Slave) and Ethan Hawke?

Yes, Chiwetel Ejiofor would have been an excellent choice. (I'm laughing that you picked the one actor whose name I always butcher. I just call him Chewbacca Eggo Fart now.). Not sure about Hawke though. Maybe Heath Ledger instead? Wasn't he right on the cusp of hitting it big at the time?

Funnily enough Han *was* supposed to say "I like this guy" in reference to Poe when they were discussing the attack on Starkiller Base in TFA and Poe is actually who he's pointing at. But when they were assembling the final cut Abrams thought it was more important for Finn to get Han's endorsement so he re-edited it to make it seem like Han was pointing at Finn.

Oh yeah, they both were in that meeting, weren't they? I forgot about that. Still, not having the two cocky pilots interact seemed odd to me.

 

[ironwez20]

He wont accept that though.. He will just say we are talkin about ROTS.

Problem is.. When just talking about a Fav SW film and allowing only one vote then you are not doing a true rankin. So when Empire takes the majority of the fav vote we don't know how the majority of the people feel about the rest of the films..

And that is why the ranking poll is the most relevant

And that poll goes...

ESB
ANH
ROTJ
RO
TFA
TLJ
ROTS
AOTC
TPM

Let me explain it one more way..

If the vote for the best goes like this

Empire is number 1 with 2000 votes out of 2500
ROTS is number 2 with 100 votes

and the worst goes like this

AOTC is number 1 with 2000 votes
ROTS is #4 with 20 votes

None of this accounts for all the people who might think its the 2nd or 3rd worst film of the series. It just might get over 1500 votes from people to be 2nd worst??

So is it one of the best if 100 people think its the best but 1500 think its the 2nd worst?



Now mind you this is the same site form the same article that Monkey stated proved him right.

But he and aussibott failed to look at once you pick a fav or least fav you cant pick anything more.. But once you are allowed to rank them... Well things can look a lot different.. The only thing that will remain consistent is that the Most loved and most hated should remain the same.



Now I personally to put much into polls. Peoples moods and tastes change all the time. But I think the point has been made of how these polls work against ROTS and the PT as a whole.

And I don't even agree with ranking of having some of the PT as low as they are.


Khev and Jye

Edit. Never mind ...... sigh

 

[ironwez20]

Here are the ratings for each film, per IMDB:

TESB - 8.7
ANH - 8.6
ROTJ - 8.3
TFA - 7.9
RO - 7.8
ROTS - 7.5
TLJ - 7.0
Solo - 6.9
TROS - 6.7
AOTC - 6.5
TPM - 6.5

Something else to think about ...

Tros is definitely better than the last jedi and aotc is worse than tpm.

 

[Neal136]

Tros is definitely better than the last jedi and aotc is worse than tpm.

I'm not saying I agree with that order (I don't), but it's based on millions of user votes and offers another perspective.

 

[JAWS]

I'm not saying I agree with that order (I don't), but it's based on millions of user votes and offers another perspective.

Nothing is ever going to be perfect because its all based on opinion.


I mean I think there are people out there who don't think Prophecy: A Monster Movie, is not an all time classic horror film.

 

[TheDucky]

It’s actually hilarious how you guys are twisting the conversation away from ROTS into some “gotcha” game because I proved ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies and you are now grasping at straws. Just admit it. ROTS is on one of the best Star Wars movies ever as viewed by the masses.

 

[Khev]

Yes, Chiwetel Ejiofor would have been an excellent choice. (I'm laughing that you picked the one actor whose name I always butcher. I just call him Chewbacca Eggo Fart now.). Not sure about Hawke though. Maybe Heath Ledger instead? Wasn't he right on the cusp of hitting it big at the time?

I picked Hawke because I feel he and Oscar Isaac have pretty similar speech patterns and behaviors which would keep him pretty "Poe-ish." I can just picture Hawke telling BB-8 "just stay alive, I'll come back for you" and in my mind he sounds almost exactly like Isaac. Ledger would be good too. He and Hawke both had a presence in the early 2000's with Training Day and Knight's Tale both hitting theaters in 2001. So they could have been in this theoretical alternate SW trilogy from that same time period.

Oh yeah, they both were in that meeting, weren't they? I forgot about that.

 

[Khev]

Khev and Jye

Why don't Shmi and Anakin say they love each other when they say goodbye in TPM? What kind of mother doesn't say that when bidding farewell to her son, possibly forever? Such an odd family, lol.

No wonder Anakin was so messed up when she *almost* said it before dying in his arms. Never hearing it once is probably why he turned to the Dark Side. Way to go Shmi.

 

[ironwez20]

I'm not saying I agree with that order (I don't), but it's based on millions of user votes and offers another perspective.

O yea I know I?m just saying lol

 

[ironwez20]

Why don't Shmi and Anakin say they love each other when they say goodbye in TPM? What kind of mother doesn't that when bidding farewell to her son, possibly forever? Such an odd family, lol.

No wonder Anakin was so messed up when she *almost* said it before dying in his arms. Never hearing it once is probably why he turned to the Dark Side. Way to go Shmi.

Why didn?t leia say that to ben? Hell why did they just willingly let there someone join scrotom clone and kinda just leave it alone.

Kinda just let him go and said. Well it happpens and went there own way. Seems like Skywalkers are the worst

 

[ironwez20]

It?s actually hilarious how you guys are twisting the conversation away from ROTS into some ?gotcha? game because I proved ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies and you are now grasping at straws. Just admit it. ROTS is on one of the best Star Wars movies ever as viewed by the masses.

They are just blinded by there love for OT. They honestly think solo is better than the PT and that clone wars is bad. It?s pass the point where they are delusional at this point so it?s not worth arguing anymore lol

 

[Khev]

Why didn?t leia say that to ben?

Because she didn't even know him, lol.

Ben: "Run Luke run!"

Leia: "I love you!"

You're so weird ironwez.

 

[ironwez20]

Because she didn't even know him, lol.

Ben: "Run Luke run!"

Leia: "I love you!"

You're so weird ironwez.

Lol you know who I?m talking about

 

[Khev]

Lol you know who I?m talking about

 

[TheDucky]

Guys I've carried out an independent survey of a very balanced Star Wars fan and these are the results (the word definitive gets thrown around a lot but this is probably the most definitive list you are ever going to see in this thread... it's ahem my list):

You have a good list. I think this is how a lot of fans would rank these movies now. Ignore the ST, with the exception of RO which seems to be accepted by a majority, with AOTC/TPM at the bottom, but still accepted and possibly viewed more positively now after the ST.

Yes lets ignore the fans feelings on the other two PT films. Nothing to see here.

All those polls did was say pick your favorites.

So staff and individual writer's cant be fans ???

They can, but the opinions of thousands carry more weight than the opinion of the few.

So again when the rankings, which is a much more accurate interpretation of how EVERYONE feels about each movie, and not just a the sloppy leftovers of whatever comes after ESB, ROTS is at the bottom 3 with the other 2 PT movies.

That ranking does not make mathematical sense. ROTS carries a huge proportion of votes for favorites, yet ranks so low.

Your logic behind why ROTS must be one of the best, is flawed when it ranks so low when THE FANS rank all the movies.

Nope.

Voting on a fav and being sloppy 2nd is much different then Ranking them. IGN ranking system shows what most people have always agreed on... The PT films are not fan favorites.. Not a one.

Now I still have issues with TPM and ROTS ranking lower than TLJ.

I think we both know that ST are now at the bottom. It shows as Star Wars flourished after the PT and is slowly dying after the ST.

But still.. I know you want to keep this about ROTS... If you are going to accept the poll as ROTS being one of the best.. You are going to admit now that AOTC and TPM are two of the worst if not the worst SW films.. Correct? I mean they are truly awful and any defense of them must be unimaginable. They are worse then TLJ in a lot of polls. Bad bad movies.

Those polls are pick your favorites. It has no bearing on what is the worst or if those not picked are viewed as the worse, both PT and ST. All those polls did was to show the favorites of the series, and ROTS was a favorite and thus one of the best Star Wars movies ever.

So just to make sure Ducky.. With your logic you are willing to admit that AOTC and TPM are the two worst SW films ever!

You are drawing false conclusions from a poll that asked your favorite, not your worst.

I'd say TPM/AOTC are middle of the pack movies.

Just to add to a comment that the Ducky and Jaws have made in relation to Rotten Tomatoes, there is without a doubt some form of 'meddling' to the scores that they allow for new movies.

The Ducky gave the example of the audience score for TROS and he is absolutely correct that after the first few days of it being live it did not budge despite thousands and thousands of further reviews being added to the site ... a very unlikely mathematical outcome. RT also does not count scores below 1 so if you rate it 1/2 that is not included in their metric (check the TLJ audience reviews to see how many people rated it 1/2 as the lowest score on offer).

Studios have seemingly realised that general audiences seem to put a lot of stock into the ratings of RT so it can massively damage a movie if immediately after opening weekend it is trashed by the audience and / or critics (I assume that audience score is probably more relevant to Star Wars fans than critic score at this point as many don't trust the critics after the super fresh rating TLJ received). With more recent movies the audience score now does not even go live until after that first weekend.

Critics are also incentivised to an extent into giving big studio films a more positive write-up because if they don't then they risk saying good bye to the relationship that they enjoy with that particular studio going forward (including any more preview screenings or other press privileges they may have had access to) which is not good for the reviewer or their employer. Studios are going to favour critics who do good by them and because of the modern age of online sources there is no shortage of critics to choose from. Paid critics seem reluctant to break rank and make an individual of themselves and their viewpoint.

I add also that studios don't really care about the rating that old movies receive like the PT - those movies have had their box office so a less favourable RT is not really going to impact upon their financial success going forward.

Ha ha, great point. He really screwed himself with that one didn't he, lol. Live by polls, die by polls. He now is forced to admit that 2/3 of the PT are dead last and horrible and that it is a "proven fact" that it is so.

Nope. See my replies above. Not picking a movie in those polls does not automatically means they are the worst, that logic is severely flawed. Goes for both PT and ST.

Here are the ratings for each film, per IMDB:

TESB - 8.7
ANH - 8.6
ROTJ - 8.3
TFA - 7.9
RO - 7.8
ROTS - 7.5
TLJ - 7.0
Solo - 6.9
TROS - 6.7
AOTC - 6.5
TPM - 6.5

Something else to think about ...

I think even those are flawed. When I first saw TFA I wouldn't have argued with that ranking, but TFA really soured a lot of people after TLJ and TROS.

It would be interesting if they wiped those rankings and started again to see how people view each movie in light of a completed saga.

He wont accept that though.. He will just say we are talkin about ROTS.

Problem is.. When just talking about a Fav SW film and allowing only one vote then you are not doing a true rankin. So when Empire takes the majority of the fav vote we don't know how the majority of the people feel about the rest of the films..

And that is why the ranking poll is the most relevant

And that poll goes...

ESB
ANH
ROTJ
RO
TFA
TLJ
ROTS
AOTC
TPM

Let me explain it one more way..

If the vote for the best goes like this

Empire is number 1 with 2000 votes out of 2500
ROTS is number 2 with 100 votes

and the worst goes like this

AOTC is number 1 with 2000 votes
ROTS is #4 with 20 votes

None of this accounts for all the people who might think its the 2nd or 3rd worst film of the series. It just might get over 1500 votes from people to be 2nd worst??

So is it one of the best if 100 people think its the best but 1500 think its the 2nd worst?



Now mind you this is the same site form the same article that Monkey stated proved him right.

But he and aussibott failed to look at once you pick a fav or least fav you cant pick anything more.. But once you are allowed to rank them... Well things can look a lot different.. The only thing that will remain consistent is that the Most loved and most hated should remain the same.



Now I personally to put much into polls. Peoples moods and tastes change all the time. But I think the point has been made of how these polls work against ROTS and the PT as a whole.

And I don't even agree with ranking of having some of the PT as low as they are.


Khev and Jye

This is you.