Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[JAWS]

So true. "I just can't understand how someone who watched the OT in the 70's and 80's can like the ST." Then what the hell is the matter with you because I just spent the last five months breaking down why this trilogy scratches itches that I've wanted to see play out on screen for decades due to it honoring scenarios that were described not just in the EU but also proposed ideas going back to before ROTJ!

Yep.. I wonder how many pages we would have if we put your post in book form.

 

[JAWS]

Yeah, I'd have to agree. I just go by my own viewing habits. If any of the OT, ST, Rogue One or Solo are on TV, I'll stop and watch them without question, but TPM is the only PT film I've rewatched since they first were released on DVD. And with TPM I can only vaguely recall what happens after the Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan/Maul lightsaber battle, as that's where I usually turn it off.

Wow.. That long since watching the PT? I think you should give them another go.. Maybe you will find some fun out of them now.

 

[ironwez20]

I am actually dumbfounded how much crap JAWS is getting over the PT since historically he has always been a vocal defender, not apologist, but defender of what he considered their high levels of proper SW dna.

How are people not reading the words he is writing lol

JAWS: I give credit for Lucas being a visionary with the PT because the ST could have definitely have used more of that Lucas magical touch while the PT could have definitely benefited from a proper script writer and producer just to smooth out the YES people Lucas had surrounded himself with and.....


Ducky/Ironwez: OMG YOU HATE LUCAS AND THE PT AND YOU WORSHIP TROS AND ARE FRIENDS WITH KHEV AND JYE WE HOPE YOU DROP ALL OF YOUR EXPENSIVE POLYSTONE STATUES YOU SNOBBY SNARKY BASTARD ARGGGG!


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Sigh you and the other stooges always crap on the PT to keep this thread alive. JAws says stuff al the time. People just respond. Stop acting like he doesn't lol

 

[ironwez20]

Does JAWS know that JAWS is not allowed in movie theaters you know THE MOVIE THAT STARTED THEATRICAL BLOCKBUSTERS lol


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I heard about that. But it's only AMC theaters. All becuase of some stupid trolls movie. Come on.

 

[TheDucky]

Thnak you ducky. Notice how it's OT fans laughing and the ones who like the ST and felt it was a grand story. Lol You keep hitting them hard with facts and like a zombie that won;t die they come back for more.

Yep, I've lost count of the number of times TheDucky has destroyed Khev, Jye and Jaws completely. It seems he knows TROS better than they do.

Thank you for the kind words.

I'm about to destroy them again.

Well that's a fact but people aren't quite as insane as Ducky would have you believe. He literally went back years trying to cherry pick a few polls that would agree with him, that first one he posted from 2017 was even before the release of TLJ, Solo, and TROS, lol.

I didn't cherry pick anything.

Everyone google "most liked star wars films poll." You will see those were my first four results.

Here let's make it real easy. Just go Google "Star Wars ranked" right now and see what comes up. Two of the top three links (by Digital Trends and USA Today) have all three prequels dead last. Almost all the others have TPM and AOTC last with ROTS in the bottom half. People haven't gone completely nuts just yet.

What's interesting as I comb through all the latest rankings is how many of them have Rogue One in the *Top Three.* Damn people came around on that film *quick.* Also TLJ has weathered the backlash to still remain high across almost all the lists as well. Not that I care of course because my rankings are the correct ones and I don't need any outside validation to prove it.

Surely I don't have to tell you the difference between general audience polls that had responses from the real fans vs rankings from entertainment staff writers.

The legitimate opinions come from the thousands of fans answering those polls, not a few staff writers that might not even like Star Wars but doing it to get their check.

Well look at that.


Are they polls though Khev or just opinion pieces.. I think Duckys mad search were all opinion pieces.

Google "most liked star wars films poll." You will see those were my first four results.

The opinion pieces/rankings were from Khev. The polls, form thousands of real fans, were from me. Mine is more legitimate.

So if Ducky and Ironwez are going to stand by the polls of having ROTS ranks so High I think that means they have to accept that on the

Star Wars poll - TLJ was 3rd fav

IGN - has Jedi at 3rd above ANH - With TPM, AOTC, TLJ as the top three for worst SW movies. Ducky must agree.

Variety is, as Khev said, before TLJ.. Still Clones takes the bottom spot.

Of course these polls are what is your fav. So it does not mean any of them are hated.. Accept for IGN in which they voted for worst and 2 of the 3 were PT films.

This is a discussion about ROTS. Nothing else. The discussion was that ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies ever. And from 4 different reputable sources, over the span of four years, from thousands of real fans, I have proven that ROTS is indeed considered to be one of the best Star Wars movies ever by the opinions of the people that matter, the fans.

Lets look at Audience score

ESB - 97%​

ANH - 96%
ROTJ - 94%

TFA - 86%
TROS - 86%
ROTS - 66%

​

TPM - 59%
AOTC - 56%
TLJ - 43%


Hmmmm look at that.

Rotten Tomatoes rigs their score and are easily manipulated. I've brought this up before. TROS stayed exactly at 86% despite tens of thousands, probably now one hundred thousand plus responses.

I don't trust those scores whatsoever. Even the TLJ one as much as I enjoy it. I brought them up before just to make fun of TLJ.

Lets look at another IGN Poll from 2017: https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/12/21/poll-results-how-would-you-rank-the-star-wars-movies

Look at what happens when asked to Rank.. PT takes the three lowest spots.

When Asked What is the best ROTS does fare better at number 3 which tells me it just has some goofy fans

IGN staff rank the PT all at the bottom.

Again, IGN staff opinions mean nothing. The Star Wars polls being voted on by fans is what matters.

But let's look at that poll.

Favorite Star Wars movie - ROTS 3rd

Hated Star Wars Movie - ROTS is at the bottom, right behind the OT, with TPM/AOTC/TLJ taking the top spots.

Star Wars Movie Seen the Most - ROTS 3rd most watch.

Every single thing here only proves mine and ironwez original point, ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies ever.

How about Popularity by Amazon https://www.cinemablend.com/news/16...ilms-ranked-by-popularity-according-to-amazon

Well yet again the PT takes the 3 of the 4 bottom spots.. But this is before TLJ and TROS so who knows if they may fair better.

That is a flawed approach for numerous reasons, the biggest being the newest movie is always going to be most streamed... because it is new.

Possible USA today staff ranking... You guessed it PT all at bottom. https://www.cinemablend.com/news/16...ilms-ranked-by-popularity-according-to-amazon


I can find countless rankings by individual writers doing their own rankings and putting the PT all at the bottom..

Again, individual writers and staff writers opinions mean ****. It's the fans opinions that matter. The fans voice matters more than staff writers. And again the fans have spoken clearly that ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies ever. Top 3.

I have to assume since Ducky, Ironwez and aussiebott were so willing to jump in with Duckys polls that they must agree with these polls and rankings.

You gave one poll, which only proved my point more than yours.

Hey speaking of my snobby expensive statues.. Check out my new 50" JAWS item!

View attachment 484161

That is awesome.

Is that Iron Studios Punisher back there too?

 

[Khev]

This is a discussion about ROTS. Nothing else. The discussion was that ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies ever. And from 4 different reputable sources, over the span of four years, from thousands of real fans, I have proven that ROTS is indeed considered to be one of the best Star Wars movies ever by the opinions of the people that matter, the fans.

You literally have no idea who participated in those polls, *how many times they participated,* and whether or not they were "fans" or just a bunch of trekkies selecting ROTS over and over for the lolz.

Every single thing here only proves mine and ironwez original point, ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies ever.

Yes because anonymous polls on the internet = "proof." You're a funny guy Ducky, I'll give you that.

 

[TheDucky]

You literally have no idea who participated in those polls, *how many times they participated,* and whether or not they were "fans" or just a bunch of trekkies selecting ROTS over and over for the lolz.



Yes because anonymous polls on the internet = "proof." You're a funny guy Ducky, I'll give you that.

What else is there to use?

Want me to poll door to door?

"Hello sir, may I talk to you about the one true Star Wars film? Revenge of the Sith?"

 

[Khev]

What else is there to use?

Good taste, sound arguments, and a willingness to stick to your guns. That's all any of us can use. Polls mean nothing unless you respect the taste and opinions of those participating in them (and they aren't being padded with people voting multiple times, etc.)

I notice that a lot of ST bashers seemingly feel the constant need to follow up their comments with something to the effect of "and everyone agrees with me." It's very interesting. I wonder if it's an age thing, a lack of confidence thing, or combination of the two.

 

[TheDucky]

Good taste, sound arguments, and a willingness to stick to your guns. That's all any of us can use. Polls mean nothing unless you respect the taste and opinions of those participating in them (and they aren't bring padded with people voting multiple times, etc.)

I notice that a lot of ST bashers seemingly feel the constant need to then follow up their comments with "and everyone agrees with me." Very interesting. I wonder if it's an age thing, a lack of confidence thing, or both.

I think 3 of those polls only had one vote per one person. And it sure is a coincidence that 4 polls, from 4 different websites, all with similar results, all just happen to have participants who all were trolls, trekkies, and bad tastes.

And tastes are subjective. It's pretty ignorant to just reject those because you don't agree with them.

I notice that a lot of ST lovers seemingly feel the constant need to then follow up their comments with "that doesn't count" in regards to every single metric used to discredit the ST. Very interesting. I wonder if it's an age thing, a lack of confidence thing, or both.

 

[Khev]

I notice that a lot of ST lovers seemingly feel the constant need to then follow up their comments with "that doesn't count" in regards to every single metric used to discredit the ST.

Wrong again. I'm well aware that the ST has rubbed lots of people the wrong way, even a good number of people whose opinion I respect. I disagree with them of course, but feel no need to pretend that they're wrong for disliking it, or that TROS isn't great regardless.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I notice that a lot of ST bashers seemingly feel the constant need to follow up their comments with something to the effect of "and everyone agrees with me." It's very interesting. I wonder if it's an age thing, a lack of confidence thing, or combination of the two.

The ST has not been well received, especially by the vast majority of long time fans of the franchise. It's been well documented in the media. The films after TLJ have all underperformed at the box. A trilogy just wrapped and toy companies won't even touch the ST . There is a brand new theme park that failed miserably. The Star Wars brand popularity has taken a huge hit because of Kennedy. Own it. These are documented FACTS even you can't deny. It's pathetic Khev, it really is.

 

[ironwez20]

Good taste, sound arguments, and a willingness to stick to your guns. That's all any of us can use. Polls mean nothing unless you respect the taste and opinions of those participating in them (and they aren't being padded with people voting multiple times, etc.)

I notice that a lot of ST bashers seemingly feel the constant need to follow up their comments with something to the effect of "and everyone agrees with me." It's very interesting. I wonder if it's an age thing, a lack of confidence thing, or combination of the two.

Bruh look around the internet. Not just polls but take a good look around. Get out the bubble and see. Everywhere I go. ST is hated . ROTS is loved. Even with the facts he?s given you , you don?t seem to grasp that it?s a failure. I don?t care that you like it but it?s funny that you say ROTS is worse and GL caused more harm when that?s far from the case .

 

[aussiebottt]

And tastes are subjective. It's pretty ignorant to just reject those because you don't agree with them.

But that is exactly what Khev does, time after time.

 

[Bravomite]

Guys I've carried out an independent survey of a very balanced Star Wars fan and these are the results (the word definitive gets thrown around a lot but this is probably the most definitive list you are ever going to see in this thread... it's ahem my list):

1. Star Wars (or a new hope) - it's a perfect stand alone movie and entry point into Star Wars it's also a near flawless movie and blew my mind as a kid and caused me to waste countless hours and many 1000's of dollars for the rest of my life on this fun escapist story and world; 10 out of 10

2. The Empire Strikes Back - yeh it's a better movie than Star Wars and it's my favourite as an adult but it was probably my least favourite of the OT as a kid ... heresy I know but it's downer ending and the heroes being split up was never as fun for kid me; 10 out of 10

3. Rogue One - it's rare for a modern movie these days to get me excited and make me care let alone a Star Wars movie and this one did it in spades. I get more from every viewing, love the cinematography and that final third on scariff is perfection; 8 out of 10

4. Revenge of the Sith - Man I still really like the movie. I went in deeeeep into the EU at that time consuming it everywhere I could so when I watched the movie I had all the backstory I needed to understand Anakin's fall and didn't need more (but appreciate that others would not have done the same). Love the movie and still do. Wish it had more practical sets and effects though, the score is my favourite of John Williams' work on Star Wars; 7 out of 10

5. Return of the Jedi - Jedi Luke was favourite action figure growing up and I loved this movie so much as a kid (it received the most re-watches), speeder bike chase (scout trooper is still my favourite design), jabba, epic space battle, death star throne room and amazing score - however, when I made my girlfriend (now wife) watch the OT for the first time, Jedi was the only OT movie that made me cringe a lot ... christ I thought she is going to judge me on the crappy jedi rocks song and teddy bears and she did - still refused to watch the PT on the strength of Jedi ... probably a good thing though looking back with hindsight haha; 7 out of 10

6. The Phantom Menace - I saw this at the right age, I was still a kid and loved everything Star Wars. Seeing the Jedi (Obi-wan and Qui-gon) on screen together as they were before the Empire was awesome. Duel of Fates, amazing score and fight choreography, Mual was a really cool villian... also I was right there with Anakin... Natalie Portman some kind of space angel lol. Jar Jar gave me and my siblings wonderful hours of quoting fun (probably annoying everyone else) and that awesome PC game and podracing were huge for me in 1999/2000 (I remember getting the game for Christmas but needing to upgrade our PC to play it which finally happened on New Years eve so I was busy playing the game right up until midnight, then my Dad turned off the PC in case the Millennium Bug fried us all). Practical sets and effects in lots of places too - it's not aged as badly as you might think... but Gungans are a struggle to get through for sure. 6.5 out of 10

7. Attack of the Clones - again seeing this at the right age really really helped it. I still like Jango and kid boba screw you guys haha (the sideshow Jango figure survives all my collection purges and I also remember walking miles and miles to the shops on my own to buy the hasbro figure after seeing the move because my parents wouldn't take me because i was too old for that bantha poodu ... well jokes on them I now have a collection room full of toys hahaha my poor wallet and wife). Kenobi and Jango fight was cool. Anakin murdering the tuskens and him telling Padme about it were good scenes. Sure the love story line and dialogue was ropey but kid me knew no better and I still liked Portman a lot so did not even notice. Dooku is still cool and seeing Mace get some lightsaber action was fun and Yoda too. It's not aged nearly as well as the other two, even less practical locations than TPM, worse CGI than ROTS and all the dammed clone trooper are video game characters rather than actors... annoying. 5 out of 10

Then we move onto the non-canonical Star Wars movies:

8. Solo - had an original trilogy aesthetic and I liked the new trooper designs (especially the patrol trooper). But the story wasn't as good as the EU novels charting Han's adventures and the dude playing Han never made me believe he was Han (he did better than I thought he would be still not enough). I just don't need this story and I've never re-watched it. 5 out of 10

9. TROS - it's silly, PT at it's worst silly, but it's also fun and has a Star Wars like energy to it. All interactions with Kylo and Rey are really good and much improved on previous films but that space battle was really lack lustre. I didn't feel any stakes and was too rushed (not even bothering to explain basic things like how was Palpatine back). Felt like it took a huge poodu on TLJ \(which whilst fun to see was nonsensical for a final instalment and very petty of JJ and caused him to waste loads of time with the movie) and disrespected the established canon and story that Lucas was trying to tell in the PT and OT. BUT it had Lando and Wedge back and neither died hurray! 3 out of 10

10. TLJ - I know I know how can it be so high up the list! AJP has made me hate it less and even respect parts of it but nothing can help me reconcile TLJ Luke with OT and EU Luke in my mind. It had dumb things in it that require an AJP or Khev level Star Wars knowledge to make fit in the canon / explain it (e.g. Holdo manoeuvre and slow fragile bombers with magnetic space bombs), canto bite, it teased an interesting new path for the future (Kylo and Rey together) and then chickened out from following it through, wasted Snoke, canto bite, wasted Phasma and canto bite oh and Rose and all her dialogue, and fragile pointless skimmers with no offensive weapons, Rey was overpowered and her motivations made little sense and ... canto bite. It was shot really well though and good performances from the actors. 2 out of 10

11. TFA - the first 30 minutes were good but then it wasted everything, not only the set-ups and expectations of this movie (ooo cool female lead, wow grizzled ex stormtrooper turns on the bad guys, cool villain etc.) but it also destroyed the ST before it even began. There was not enough thought put into to it at the planning stage to tell a satisfying narrative across all three films and one that was worth telling. Hopelessly setting it on a trajectory of self destruction by pigeon holing it into a soft inferior re-tread of the OT (largely ignoring the PT) stuffed full of blatant current day politics without anything new or interesting to say other than to tear down our heroes from the previous stories. Never showing the OT heroes together on screen is an actual crime, i looked it up, and Leia snubbing Chewie to hug Rey -1 out of 10

Finally please do not question either the results or validity of this poll, literally everyone feels this way and if they don't then they should ... I have spoken [plays out to Mando closing credits music]

 

[jye4ever]

I heard about that. But it's only AMC theaters. All becuase of some stupid trolls movie. Come on.

Now that NATO released a statement supporting AMC it looks like all the other theater chains might join in.

NATO has drawn a line in the sand.

Over Trolls 2 lol


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[a-dev]

Lol I mean most OT fans atren't in the know and in serious denial but it is. Hate to say it but tit's true.

It (ROTS) probably is for all I know - or care - very popular with the kids who grew up with it. It wasn't particular popular with the adults who saw it at the time. Most would have said it was the best of a bad bunch (I don't even agree with that, I think TPM is better).

So, a trio of movies that weren't liked by expectant adults when the movies first came out are now liked by present-day adults who originally saw them as kids. Hmmm.

Makes you wonder how it could pan out with the ST in 10/15/20 years.

 

[aussiebottt]

It (ROTS) probably is for all I know - or care - very popular with the kids who grew up with it. It wasn't particular popular with the adults who saw it at the time. Most would have said it was the best of a bad bunch (I don't even agree with that, I think TPM is better).

So, a trio of movies that weren't liked by expectant adults when the movies first came out are now liked by present-day adults who originally saw them as kids. Hmmm.

Makes you wonder how it could pan out with the ST in 10/15/20 years.

Bullsh|t. ROTS opening night here had multiple cinemas packed full of adults. And it was full every time I went back to see it over the next few weeks. So I'd say it was particularly popular with the adults of the time.

 

[jye4ever]

Bullsh|t. ROTS opening night here had multiple cinemas packed full of adults. And it was full every time I went back to see it over the next few weeks. So I'd say it was particularly popular with the adults of the time.

That?s it you convinced me lots of adults went to go see ROTS it?s official then..,

ROTS > ANH/ESB

You may now retire good job soldier.


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[a-dev]

Meh. I'm sure my showing was packed aswell because everyone wanted to see Darth Vader onscreen for the first time since 1983 but I didn't care to go back and see it again to find out what other showings were like so I can't counter that.

All I can say is the PT hasn't had a great reputation amongst older age group Star Wars fans for all these years, has it.

And a further point I'd make is that even if those are a vocal minority, it's blindly arrogant to think the same situation couldn't possibly be repeating itself now and that as today's kids get older future polls might show ST movies rising up the rankings.

This coming from someone who likes neither the PT or the ST.

 

[JAWS]

I didn't cherry pick anything.

Everyone google "most liked star wars films poll." You will see those were my first four results.

Surely I don't have to tell you the difference between general audience polls that had responses from the real fans vs rankings from entertainment staff writers.

The legitimate opinions come from the thousands of fans answering those polls, not a few staff writers that might not even like Star Wars but doing it to get their check.

Hmmmm I am a real fan and I did not participate in any of those.

But hell I must be a real Harry Potter fan because I did participate in that poll about those films once ​

​

This is a discussion about ROTS. Nothing else. The discussion was that ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies ever. And from 4 different reputable sources, over the span of four years, from thousands of real fans, I have proven that ROTS is indeed considered to be one of the best Star Wars movies ever by the opinions of the people that matter, the fans.

Yes lets ignore the fans feelings on the other two PT films. Nothing to see here.

Again, IGN staff opinions mean nothing. The Star Wars polls being voted on by fans is what matters.

So staff and individual writer's cant be fans ???

But let's look at that poll.

Favorite Star Wars movie - ROTS 3rd

Hated Star Wars Movie - ROTS is at the bottom, right behind the OT, with TPM/AOTC/TLJ taking the top spots.

Star Wars Movie Seen the Most - ROTS 3rd most watch.

Every single thing here only proves mine and ironwez original point, ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies ever.

So again when the rankings, which is a much more accurate interpretation of how EVERYONE feels about each movie, and not just a the sloppy leftovers of whatever comes after ESB, ROTS is at the bottom 3 with the other 2 PT movies.

Again, individual writers and staff writers opinions mean ****. It's the fans opinions that matter. The fans voice matters more than staff writers. And again the fans have spoken clearly that ROTS is one of the best Star Wars movies ever. Top 3.

Your logic behind why ROTS must be one of the best, is flawed when it ranks so low when THE FANS rank all the movies.

You gave one poll, which only proved my point more than yours.

Voting on a fav and being sloppy 2nd is much different then Ranking them. IGN ranking system shows what most people have always agreed on... The PT films are not fan favorites.. Not a one.

Now I still have issues with TPM and ROTS ranking lower than TLJ.


But still.. I know you want to keep this about ROTS... If you are going to accept the poll as ROTS being one of the best.. You are going to admit now that AOTC and TPM are two of the worst if not the worst SW films.. Correct? I mean they are truly awful and any defense of them must be unimaginable. They are worse then TLJ in a lot of polls. Bad bad movies.

That is awesome.

Is that Iron Studios Punisher back there too?

Thanks and Yes it is