Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[JAWS]

Palpatine's manipulation of Anakin was so poorly written, so one-note, so unconvincing there's no way a Jedi with an ounce of training should have fallen for it. I think I've criticized Hayden Christensen too much in the past; clearly this is all on Georgie boy. I actually thought HC's acting was confident & convincing in the early going, right up to the point Palpatine told him to kill Dooku. Then everything went south, and quickly. Damn, when you create an entire trilogy for the express purpose of demonstrating a main character's fall from grace, maybe spend a little more time fleshing that out and a little less worrying about the never ending CGI.

Interesting.. I think I like the film overall more then you but That is when the film fell apart for me also... I was having a decent enough time with it up until the Jedi came to arrest Palps.. I actually really like the first confrontation of Anakin and Palps.. It was the most dramatic thing in the PT but then the Palps vs Mace and other Jedi part came (took me out of the film cause Ian, Jackson and the other Jedi actors are just awful Saber users) and the turn of Anakin. It just lost me after that for the same reasons you posted.

I think the end still could have been saved for me if not for the Yoda vs Palps Saber fight and if the Anakin vs Obi Wan stayed a little more grounded..


I like it more then I use to but it could have been so much more.

 

[punisher1974]

Interesting.. I think I like the film overall more then you but That is when the film fell apart for me also... I was having a decent enough time with it up until the Jedi came to arrest Palps.. I actually really like the first confrontation of Anakin and Palps.. It was the most dramatic thing in the PT but then the Palps vs Mace and other Jedi part came (took me out of the film cause Ian, Jackson and the other Jedi actors are just awful Saber users) and the turn of Anakin. It just lost me after that for the same reasons you posted.

I think the end still could have been saved for me if not for the Yoda vs Palps Saber fight and if the Anakin vs Obi Wan stayed a little more grounded..


I like it more then I use to but it could have been so much more.

The Anakin and Obi Wan fight seemed to be inspired by the old Errol Flynn Pirate movies with the swinging around and such. I didn't like a lot of the battle and the useless sword twirling scene but it had some decent bits too. Palpatine and Mace Fight is awful and goofy. I liked the movie though but it was about 75 percent there for me as to when Anakin falls. Mace was a catalyst for it and it was to convenient and rushed.

 

[jye4ever]

I?m still not canceling my HT Commander Cody figure lol


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[e30ernest]

OK, I just finished watching ROTS. What was I thinking??? OMG, it's worse than I remembered. There's 2 hours and 20 minutes of my life that I'll never get back, and given we're in the midst of a deadly pandemic I really shouldn't be wasting it like that. Palpatine's manipulation of Anakin was so poorly written, so one-note, so unconvincing there's no way a Jedi with an ounce of training should have fallen for it. I mean, Jake Lloyd Anakin would have seen right through it, so no way a 20+ year old version of him would have been so naive. I think I've criticized Hayden Christensen too much in the past; clearly this is all on Georgie boy. I actually thought HC's acting was confident & convincing in the early going, right up to the point Palpatine told him to kill Dooku. Then everything went south, and quickly. Damn, when you create an entire trilogy for the express purpose of demonstrating a main character's fall from grace, maybe spend a little more time fleshing that out and a little less worrying about the never ending CGI.

If that is a "great" SW film, it's in the same way that Trump did a "great" job preparing us for COVID-19.

Yeah I was never really convinced on how Anakin would fall for that. Unless the Force turned all its users into bipolar people who are only capable of extreme evil and hatred OR passiveness and narcissistic righteousness.

 

[TheDucky]

George explained the basis of Anakin’s fall in TPM.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

If you can’t connect the dots... that’s on you.

 

[e30ernest]

George explained the basis of Anakin’s fall in TPM.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

If you can’t connect the dots... that’s on you.

Yes, but for someone who's been trained from a very young age, what was shown in ROTS wasn't enough IMO. That's why his fall was never believable to me.

 

[TheDucky]

Yes, but for someone who's been trained from a very young age, what was shown in ROTS wasn't enough IMO. That's why his fall was never believable to me.

The council believed he was too old to be trained and Yoda could sense “much fear” in him. His training didn’t really matter because as shown through 3 movies, he formed attachments that he feared he would lose.

 

[Prime Clone]

I'm just gonna accept the PT as canon. There I said it.

Palpatine's manipulation of Anakin was so poorly written, so one-note, so unconvincing there's no way a Jedi with an ounce of training should have fallen for it.

Anakin never just decided to turn evil. He sold his soul to save Padme. Even when he turned, it was reluctantly, and he remained conflicted throughout the saga.

Remember the tear after the Mustafar slaughter?

But okay, if that wasn't everyone's takeaway then that's George's fault.

Much like Kylo, he just kept killing in the hope it would feel better.

 

[ironwez20]

Yes anakins fall was fast paced but for some reason I like it. I love the emotion he has and how he seems still conflicted. I think people expected something different but I didn?t. Idk why but I love the fall and the march on the temple.

 

[TheDucky]

Okay holy crap TCW is just sealing the deal for the PT being canon even more.

Today's episode was freaking awesome.

Though I'm not sure I understand why

Spoiler

Rex and his men went after Ahsoka and Maul. Wasn't Order 66 meant to target Jedi only and isn't Ahsoka not technically a Jedi anymore? If it's aimed at "any Force user" then wouldn't Palpatine himself and Anakin be in danger? I guess they're tweaking it to simply mean "any non-Sith Force User."

Also Ahsoka hearing Anakin's turn in her mind and it's the actual voices of HC, SLJ, and McDiarmid!!!

The sad Order 66 music while Ahsoka fights off her own troops!

Ahsoka quoting Chirrut Imwe!!

jye they're literally just turning it into ROTS:Extended Edition with scenes right out of ROTS being repeated only so they can immediately extend those very same scenes to include Ahsoka and Maul, lol.

The reason the clones went after them is because

Spoiler

Palpatine told Rex to kill Maul. This isn't extending to anything. It's still just the Jedi, with the exception of Maul.

Ill finish up till 9 this weekend then and watch 9 - final on Monday

You could probably skip the first 8 if you really wanted to. Unless you were really deeply invested into it before, not sure how much of an impact the first 4 will have on you. Regardless I recommend watching those first 4. You could probably skip the whole Ahsoka/Sisters arc if you want to. I didn't even like that

IIRC it was in response to people dissing the ST based on content in the comic tie-ins, but if comics don't count then neither should cartoons.
But as I've also started watching TCW (the complete series in the approved, chronological order), I'm not going to give you too much flak about it.

That said, while I have no issue (midi-chorians aside) with the PT being canon, I don't see myself ever deeply loving it. I mean SERIOUSLY, WTF? Is this a new COVID-19 symptom???

The Clone Wars count and are cannon because George Lucas created it and still works on it, including these last episodes. He himself spent days editing and adding things just for a few small scenes.

 

[aussiebottt]

The Clone Wars count and are cannon because George Lucas created it and still works on it, including these last episodes. He himself spent days editing and adding things just for a few small scenes.

It's funny Khev spends so much time bashing George Lucas but secretly he actually enjoys the things that Lucas puts out.

 

[TheDucky]

It's funny Khev spends so much time bashing George Lucas but secretly he actually enjoys the things that Lucas puts out.

So true. Khev is just facing peer pressure from Jye and Buff, but we all know he sleeps in some Jar Jar Jammies.

 

[ironwez20]

Khev just wanted to impress jye and jaws. We all know he likes the PT but then if says he does jye won?t be his friend anymore

 

[jye4ever]

There is no greater SW fan here that keeps my spirit alive for this troubled franchise more than Khev.

Talking SW with Khev is not only great fun but also rewarding.

The great thing about SW is that the perfect foundation built from ANH and ESB is so freaking solid and strong that it is able to withstand and hold up the weight of the entire troubled franchise starting with ROTJ going forward.

Had ANH and ESB not been so perfectly strong and solid it all would have already come crumbling down but because both of those movies are it allows us to also enjoy the other movies imperfections and all.

I?m listening to TFA trailer 1 and 2 music right now just that alone makes me want to dump more money on SW collectibles that I have no more room for lol

PT and ST are part of the charm of SW warts and all.

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[Prime Clone]

PT and ST are part of the charm of SW warts and all.

 

[jye4ever]

Yeah why not right i?m not one of those that craves for SW to burn to the ground.

But what I do want to see burn to the ground are these wacko Filoni fanatics now claiming that ESB is overrated and that ROTS is the real best SW movie ever :

I got news for you Filoni fanatics and Lucas apologists it was neither one of the two who came up with your precious ARC troopers it was freaking Hasbro take that lol


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[jye4ever]

Ok now things are just getting stupid.

The FF are now claiming that the Maul fight scene in this last TCW episode surpasses even the RO Vader scene.

Sigh....

Prime please do something about your people lol


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[The Buffinator]

Interesting.. I think I like the film overall more then you but That is when the film fell apart for me also... I was having a decent enough time with it up until the Jedi came to arrest Palps.. I actually really like the first confrontation of Anakin and Palps.. It was the most dramatic thing in the PT but then the Palps vs Mace and other Jedi part came (took me out of the film cause Ian, Jackson and the other Jedi actors are just awful Saber users) and the turn of Anakin. It just lost me after that for the same reasons you posted.

I think the end still could have been saved for me if not for the Yoda vs Palps Saber fight and if the Anakin vs Obi Wan stayed a little more grounded..

Yes, I'd forgotten about that scene but I found it quite good as well.

The Anakin and Obi Wan fight seemed to be inspired by the old Errol Flynn Pirate movies with the swinging around and such. I didn't like a lot of the battle and the useless sword twirling scene but it had some decent bits too. Palpatine and Mace Fight is awful and goofy. I liked the movie though but it was about 75 percent there for me as to when Anakin falls. Mace was a catalyst for it and it was to convenient and rushed.

Yes, too much style over substance. It needed to be at least 50% shorter. And the entire sequence floating down the river of lava was completely ridiculous. It was a spectacular backdrop for the duel, but GL just had to make it an active participant. And then the infamous "I have the higher ground" line.

Yeah I was never really convinced on how Anakin would fall for that. Unless the Force turned all its users into bipolar people who are only capable of extreme evil and hatred OR passiveness and narcissistic righteousness.

George explained the basis of Anakin?s fall in TPM.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

If you can?t connect the dots... that?s on you.

George is the one who had trouble connecting the dots in a convincing fashion.

Yes, but for someone who's been trained from a very young age, what was shown in ROTS wasn't enough IMO. That's why his fall was never believable to me.

This.

Anakin never just decided to turn evil. He sold his soul to save Padme. Even when he turned, it was reluctantly, and he remained conflicted throughout the saga. Remember the tear after the Mustafar slaughter?

But okay, if that wasn't everyone's takeaway then that's George's fault.

Much like Kylo, he just kept killing in the hope it would feel better.

I know that's what GL was going for, but the Emperor's "do it for Padme" argument wasn't close to enough for me. OK, he also played on Anakin's hurt feelings over being slighted by the Jedi Council, but still not enough IMO. Maybe if his premonitions about Padme's death were more consistent and graphic it might have worked better, but as it is I was unconvinced he had reached the point where he'd suddenly murder innocent kids (let alone the guys on Mustafar) based solely on Palpatine saying he'd teach him how to save her.

Yes anakins fall was fast paced but for some reason I like it. I love the emotion he has and how he seems still conflicted. I think people expected something different but I didn?t. Idk why but I love the fall and the march on the temple.

Well, you were 14 at the time, so there's that. I kid, but seriously, I agree that HC did a good job conveying the emotion & conflict, it's how GL got him to that point that I find lacking.

 

[Khev]

See after reading your assessment of Conan the Barbarian I knew the PT didn't stand a chance.

OK, I just finished watching ROTS. What was I thinking??? OMG, it's worse than I remembered. There's 2 hours and 20 minutes of my life that I'll never get back, and given we're in the midst of a deadly pandemic I really shouldn't be wasting it like that. Palpatine's manipulation of Anakin was so poorly written, so one-note, so unconvincing there's no way a Jedi with an ounce of training should have fallen for it. I mean, Jake Lloyd Anakin would have seen right through it, so no way a 20+ year old version of him would have been so naive. I think I've criticized Hayden Christensen too much in the past; clearly this is all on Georgie boy. I actually thought HC's acting was confident & convincing in the early going, right up to the point Palpatine told him to kill Dooku. Then everything went south, and quickly. Damn, when you create an entire trilogy for the express purpose of demonstrating a main character's fall from grace, maybe spend a little more time fleshing that out and a little less worrying about the never ending CGI.

Well yes, nobody (not even ironwez) will dispute anything you said in bold. The question is did you like it though, lol. You absolutely cannot watch ROTS or any prequel movie hoping to see a well made film or a movie that will make any of the characters you love from the OT cooler. You can only hope to see just enough cool stuff that you like either with regard to world building, visual designs, decent additions to the mythos (among all the bad), memorable/quotable characters (which the PT isn't lacking for better or worse), and so on. Plus there are a smattering of genuinely poignant moments and cool action sequences sprinkled throughout.

When I say I'm fine with the PT being canon it's more that I'm just finally accepting that all the references (subtle that they may be) in both the ST and Mando as *actually referencing the PT* and not some made up alternate cooler version in my head. So when TLJ Luke mentions Darth Sidious yeah he's really talking about PT Sidious. Those SBD's in Mando really are from the PT Techno Union or whatever. I'm just fine with it now. Otherwise beyond those references each trilogy has its own aesthetic and feel to such a degree (with OT and ST overlapping very nicely) that it's hard not to compartmentalize them even when binging them all in short succession.

Because that's the other thing I've noticed. If I watch the PT, then the OT (*especially* the original theatrical versions) then the ST the "cloud of the PT" really doesn't linger past ROTS. So if they're that harmless I've decided to just allow them and accept the bad with the good. Plus stuff like Mando, the ST, and new TCW episodes really have made the PT cooler in retrospect as well which has definitely helped.

 

[JAWS]

I know that's what GL was going for, but the Emperor's "do it for Padme" argument wasn't close to enough for me. OK, he also played on Anakin's hurt feelings over being slighted by the Jedi Council, but still not enough IMO. Maybe if his premonitions about Padme's death were more consistent and graphic it might have worked better, but as it is I was unconvinced he had reached the point where he'd suddenly murder innocent kids (let alone the guys on Mustafar) based solely on Palpatine saying he'd teach him how to save her.

Lucas just got the timeline wrong.. Should not have started Anakin so young. 1st film introduce an 18 year old Anakin to Qui Gon and Obi wan and have his behavior be erratic but his abilities amazing. 2nd film should be like the clone wars cartoon series. Show Anakin and Obi Wan as friends and how Heroic Anakin is but also show that he has a mean streak and does not have issues with killing those he thinks might deserve it. Introduce Palps tempting Anakin and encouraging bad behavior. Spend 1st half of 3rd film watching Anakin fall from grace and then turn... Watch Obi wan try and convince him to come back (Obi Wan once thought as you did) and then the final duel happens and the birth of the Vader we know.


Anyways anyone watch "Everything Great About" the PT movies? Ive posted it before. It helped me appreciate the PT a little more back a before TFA came out.

Anyways I like that says its Qui Gon's death that doomed Anakin. Anakin would have been in the right hands with Qui Gon and that Obi Wan was a terrible teacher (Which AOTC shows repeatedly) and how the Jedi council as a whole failed him.. Lots of Khev type fan fiction is used to make the films better in the reviewers eyes but its a great watch IMO.