Star Wars On Blu-Ray

[IrishJedi]

John Williams only composed Episode 1? Since when? He did all of the OT and the prequels.

He's referring to the fact that Lucas and Burtt butchered and re-used a lot of Williams' score from TPM in AOTC & ROTS, even replacing cues that were scored by Williams for those films with stuff from TPM. ROTS also re-used stuff that was written for AOTC. It's actually pretty terrible at times.

 

[bloodgear]

He's referring to the fact that Lucas and Burtt butchered and re-used a lot of Williams' score from TPM in AOTC & ROTS, even replacing cues that were scored by Williams for those films with stuff from TPM. ROTS also re-used stuff that was written for AOTC. It's actually pretty terrible at times.

You learn something new everyday.

 

[Khev]

He's referring to the fact that Lucas and Burtt butchered and re-used a lot of Williams' score from TPM in AOTC & ROTS, even replacing cues that were scored by Williams for those films with stuff from TPM. ROTS also re-used stuff that was written for AOTC. It's actually pretty terrible at times.

Was that any different than the Imperial March and Luke's sunset theme being reused in ROTJ?

 

[Kuzeh]

Finally watched all the OT BD...
Well...
First and foremost, all of them look and sound amazing!
Wow!!

As for the changes, here are my 2 cents...

ANH
- Ben's scream... ugh... terrible... what's wrong with the original, Lucas?
- R2-D2 rocks... also, not needed, bothers me quite a bit...
- Greedo-Han shooting, looks better than the original Special Edition... still, not as good as Han shooting first...
- Light saber color fixes are very welcome

ESB:
- All the Special edition changes are still there, most I still not like... Bespin and all that crap...
- Fett with Jango voice... ugh
- Wampa arm fixed is nice...
- Unlike most people, I don't mind Vader getting to his ship sequence

ROTJ
- Huge Jabba's palace door wasn't needed...
- "Jedi Rocks" is simply the worst of all the changes in the OT IMO... it bothers me even more than Greedo shooting first... it looks dated and the music is just dreadful...
- SE Sarlaac still looks lame...
- Ewoks blinking eyes are fine... but they should've gotten rid of all the zippers in the costumes instead...
- The R2 getting zapped in Endor look awful... why?...
- Vader's "No" isn't as bad as I originally thought... still... not needed...
- Final musical SE montage is still terrible... I look forward to ROTJ revisited...

As for the PT,
I've only watched TPM, the CGI Yoda looks great compared to that dreadful puppet...

In any case, I'm glad to own it... and Im glad some fans are making the original versions in high quality available!

 

[Gruson]

It's not about re-using cues. That's fine and they were still originally scored by Williams to be that way. It's about not giving Williams the chance to actually write music to the the entire films.

AOTC even used parts from various Star Wars video games. It was rushed and not scored in the classic way and you can tell for sure. Lucas basically did what he wanted with it, even using temp cues, TPM cues, etc. There is a list that shows where all the music from AOTC comes from, I will try and find it again. Very interesting stuff and ROTS was also rushed but not as much as AOTC.

Historically, Williams and most composers score a movie once it has been about 90%+ edited. Not the case with AOTC or ROTS. Williams did not get the chance to watch those entire movies and was only given descriptions or partial cuts to score. Shame because the music really helps tell the story and Williams never got a real chance with AOTC or ROTS. I will try to find that link with the AOTC cues.

 

[Khev]

Hmmm well I don't think the end result of AOTC or ROTS is lacking. I doubt anyone would have even been inclined to criticize the music of either film without knowing it had been tinkered with, with the sole exception of possibly one of the worst moments of the entire saga: when the music abruptly stops in AOTC when Padme pulls away from Anakin's kiss.

People on originaltrilogy.com were just recently going off about how Williams' score at the end of TPM was butchered and there's even a youtube link with the original score. I've got to say I prefer the "dun dun" music that starts up when the hangar doors open in front of Maul to the supposed original version.

Nothing tops the scores for ANH and TESB of course.

 

[Gruson]

Yeah, not even the score could help AOTC or ROTS...
I think the score to Duel of the Fates is perfect. Love it. Best prequel moment for me is the "dun dun" when the doors open too.

 

[buzzybean]

Yeah, not even the score could help AOTC or ROTS...
I think the score to Duel of the Fates is perfect. Love it. Best prequel moment for me is the "dun dun" when the doors open too.

BB

 

[IrishJedi]

Was that any different than the Imperial March and Luke's sunset theme being reused in ROTJ?

Yes, very different. Because in those cases it was the composer's (Williams) choice to re-use the cues. And it was still recorded fresh as part of the new score. In AOTC & ROTS (and even in TPM during the Podrace, when Lucas decided at the last minute to add music and re-use the music from the Naboo blockade escape) it was a case of cut & paste butchery by Lucas and Burtt in the editing room. Many times it's even crassly obvious. There is looping and cues that are abruptly cut off or spliced. I'm astonished that anyone who watches these films (and listens to the soundtracks) multiple times wouldn't notice the occurrences instantly each time. They're very obvious and often distracting.

 

[Gruson]

Yes, very different. Because in those cases it was the composer's (Williams) choice to re-use the cues. And it was still recorded fresh as part of the new score. In AOTC & ROTS (and even in TPM during the Podrace, when Lucas decided at the last minute to add music and re-use the music from the Naboo blockade escape) it was a case of cut & paste butchery by Lucas and Burtt in the editing room. Many times it's even crassly obvious. There is looping and cues that are abruptly cut off or spliced. I'm astonished that anyone who watches these films (and listens to the soundtracks) multiple times wouldn't notice the occurrences instantly each time. They're very obvious and often distracting.

Well said, thanks.

 

[IrishJedi]

I'll point out, though, that the music butchery (annoying & frustrating as it is) isn't the reason why the films are ultimately lacking. It's just symptomatic of why the PT on the whole is a creative failure: Because they were not well-planned, Lucas flew by the seat of his pants and viewed the whole thing as a digital toy experiment, and when push came to shove instead of putting real effort into things, he just threw stuff into a blender and said "That's good enough." That was the case with the (mis)use of Williams' music. But, worse, it was the case with the films themselves on the whole.

 

[TheGent]

Plus it was not a matter of lacking technology to first use a puppet in EPI and CGI later!

 

[Khev]

I'm astonished that anyone who watches these films (and listens to the soundtracks) multiple times wouldn't notice the occurrences instantly each time. They're very obvious and often distracting.

Awesome as SW music is I've never sat and listened to it outside of the context of one of the movies as they're pretty much one and the same to me. But like I said JW's composing is so good that I doubt anyone who didn't listen to the full soundtracks would ever assume anything other than the music was coordinated the same way it had been done for previous films (minus that awful Anakin/Padme kiss.)

On a side note can you tell me where in AOTC the ROTS "Anakin marching up the steps" theme is used? I swear I remember it from AOTC and it even used to play on the AOTC DVD menu screen but I seem to miss it whenever I watch the Episode II (which is quite rare these days.)

 

[CollectorNC]

Even the OT reused cues...all movie sequels do.

 

[IrishJedi]

On a side note can you tell me where in AOTC the ROTS "Anakin marching up the steps" theme is used? I swear I remember it from AOTC and it even used to play on the AOTC DVD menu screen but I seem to miss it whenever I watch the Episode II (which is quite rare these days.)

It's on the AOTC soundtrack, but wasn't used in the movie. Williams wrote that for the Arena Battle, but Lucas instead re-used the same Escape From Naboo/Podrace cue from TPM. Then LFL used the cue originally scored for AOTC on the DVD menu, even though it was neglected in the film itself. And then Lucas re-used it in ROTS for the first scene on Kashyyyk and then for Anakin's march in the temple (inexplicably instead of the Imperial March, which I suppose would just have made too much god damn sense there).

You get the idea. Much of the PT music is a carekessly thrown-together, slipshod mess. Just like the PT itself.

 

[Gruson]

Yeah, I couldn't believe they did not use a version of the Imperial March for that scene! Awful...

By chance did Williams write something else for that scene?

 

[IrishJedi]

Yeah, I couldn't believe they did not use a version of the Imperial March for that scene! Awful...

By chance did Williams write something else for that scene?

Honestly, I don't even want to know at this point.

 

[Darthrazz]

I'll point out, though, that the music butchery (annoying & frustrating as it is) isn't the reason why the films are ultimately lacking. It's just symptomatic of why the PT on the whole is a creative failure: Because they were not well-planned, Lucas flew by the seat of his pants and viewed the whole thing as a digital toy experiment, and when push came to shove instead of putting real effort into things, he just threw stuff into a blender and said "That's good enough." That was the case with the (mis)use of Williams' music. But, worse, it was the case with the films themselves on the whole.

I often wonder, what if George had tackled the Prequels immediately after the OT? With the films being released in 1986, 1989, 1992. What would the stories be like? I'm sure they would have taken direction or approach. He would be striking while the Irons were still hot and not relying on CGI.

 

[Khev]

I often wonder, what if George had tackled the Prequels immediately after the OT?

 

[thenammagazine]