Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

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You can like ST, I get that. I just like my Star Wars with good stories and plots, but that is a personal choice I made.

Aw man you probably just summoned AJP with that comment! Game over man game over, wtf are we gonna do now, he's gonna come in here and he's gonna spam this thread with his wordy and inciteful prose and make me briefly consider the merits of those movies again.

Haha they did give Chewy a medal but then Leia failed to hug him!
 
Thanks Bravomite.

The key difference between the PT and ST for me is this

PT - desirable story - badly told but worth considering on its merits however few they may be
ST - undesirable story - could be well told or not - who cares when it's such an undesirable story

Again, this is all easy to say with hindsight. I was as excited as anyone when they announced the ST.
Second caveat - what is desirable is subjective. My posts will not convince anyone who wanted to see the OT heroes broken down and demolished in their senior years for whatever drama could be eked out of that. To each his own I suppose.

I agree with this statement. The story of the PT sparked my imagination during my formative youngling years and the acting / CGI overload / direction just washed over me.

I already had an ST in the EU where Luke had a happily ever after of sorts, he had a wife and child. Han and Leia seemed happy together and had three children and only one of them was emo. They had to deal with remnants of the empire (much like the Mando is showing) but all of these stories seemed like a natural progression of the story and left their victory in Jedi intact. It just felt like the characters were dealt with respect, well except Chewbacca who had a moon dropped on him (although that did raise the stakes for the YV invasion narrative).

The new ST had to better the established EU story and in that it failed spectacularly (from my certain point of view). I was very excited going into TFA and even pre-ordered some of the black series, a foolish but profitable move (sold them when the fanbase was at fever pitch on the eve of the TLJ release). The movie was fun on first watch but as I left the theatre and digested it, I was acutely aware that it was a soft re-tread of ANH which I did not need and Han and Leia's story was depressing (that and the galaxy seemed to be no better off under the new republic than the empire). Then TLJ did it's thing and sealed the deal for me but man was I hyped for TLJ (the trailers were cut so well and I really like Looper too, in fact TLJ is the only Rian movie I don't like). TROS is my favourite out of the three, it actually feels like ANH in it's tone, an old school adventure story - however, when I first watched it, it was through the lens of this isn't 'muh canon' so I just went with it.

A cohesive trilogy this is not. Does it tell a good story and is it a worthy addition to the saga, not in my book. Is it well acted, shot with great sound design and effects, certainly.
 
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Thanks Bravomite.

The key difference between the PT and ST for me is this

PT - desirable story - badly told but worth considering on its merits however few they may be
ST - undesirable story - could be well told or not - who cares when it's such an undesirable story

Again, this is all easy to say with hindsight. I was as excited as anyone when they announced the ST.
Second caveat - what is desirable is subjective. My posts will not convince anyone who wanted to see the OT heroes broken down and demolished in their senior years for whatever drama could be eked out of that. To each his own I suppose.

Damn good post. While I didn?t desire the ST story we got, I found it satisfying.


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You know what would have improved the PT greatly? A weekly TV show that highlighted Anakin and Obis adventures in the Clone wars, showing the degradation of Anakins soul prior to ROTS.


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Aw man you probably just summoned AJP with that comment! Game over man game over, wtf are we gonna do now, he's gonna come in here and he's gonna spam this thread with his wordy and inciteful prose and make me briefly consider the merits of those movies again.

Haha they did give Chewy a medal but then Leia failed to hug him!

Insightful he is, but my damning indictment of said films has never waivered. :lol

I do not fear the Triumvirate.
 
You know what would have improved the PT greatly? A weekly TV show that highlighted Anakin and Obis adventures in the Clone wars, showing the degradation of Anakins soul prior to ROTS.


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I wonder if they did do a weekly TV show like that if it would be held in higher regards than the actual PT...
 
I wonder if they did do a weekly TV show like that if it would be held in higher regards than the actual PT...

That post was sort of tongue in cheek as we did have that in Clone Wars....which even though it was a cartoon it was more mature , better written and acted than the PT itself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
That post was sort of tongue in cheek as we did have that in Clone Wars....which even though it was a cartoon it was more mature , better written and acted than the PT itself.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OMG, there was a Clone Wars show?

OMG, grass is green?

Give me some credit here xiptec :slap
 
Aw man you probably just summoned AJP with that comment! Game over man game over, wtf are we gonna do now, he's gonna come in here and he's gonna spam this thread with his wordy and inciteful prose and make me briefly consider the merits of those movies again.

Haha they did give Chewy a medal but then Leia failed to hug him!

The instructive irony here is that you are a bigger fan of TROS than I will ever be, yet I accept that film more than you do. :) I hate that it undid everything about Anakin's destiny and ultimate achievement that George spent ten years building in the PT. I hate how it used Rey in such a way that she ended up accomplishing something that Anakin and Luke failed to do. And more importantly for me, I hate when any professional writer relies on so many ****ing plot conveniences and contrivances rather than make the effort to lay the groundwork for earned plot progression.

Yet every day that goes by, I get closer and closer to embracing that film (and the entire trilogy as a result). That's because if I didn't embrace it as canon, but *do* accept the PT as canon, I'd be a hypocrite.

When I grew up with the OT, Yoda was (and is) my favorite character. He wasn't on Dagobah just hiding and refusing to fight the Empire; he was there because he was *not* a warrior. He was a Jedi guru, training Jedi about the perils of violence and how the Force allows you to circumvent the need for weapons and destruction.

Likewise, Obi-Wan Kenobi was an old hermit who had been betrayed by Anakin Skywalker. Kenobi didn't come across as a failure, nor a coward. He was someone who had gotten "too old" to effectively overturn what had happened to his former pupil, and needed Luke to fulfill the new hope.

Then came the PT. My favorite characters got completely crapped on. Yoda was actually now a warrior who took up the sword and went toe to toe with a Sith like Palpatine. Wait, what!? Why the **** did he exile himself for 20 years like a loser if he was that powerful and willing to *take the fight* to Palpatine before hiding?

And Kenobi was no longer just an honorable Jedi veteran who had simply been betrayed by a friend. He became a failure (and a serial liar). Fans of the PT go gaga over a Filoni speech that frames Obi-Wan as inadequate to properly train Anakin. The turn to Darth Vader was because Kenobi failed as a master. WTF!? :slap

And I won't even get into my feelings on PT Anakin's irreconcilable dissonance with OT Vader's persona. Nor will I get into the cinematic execution failures of the PT. The point is that I *embrace* those prequel movies as canon. They weren't what I wanted, and they turned my heroes into losers and liars, but they had a purpose in telling a story of failure and redemption. I can accept it because it ends with an ultimate triumph. There's a purpose to the "ruining" of my heroes in telling a generational story of lessons learned from failure.

I've read enough about JJ and Rian to know that they were both huge fans of SW. They may have had competing visions for what they think a SW movie should say about the conflict within (and I align much more with Rian on that), but they both tried to honor what they were fans of. They made a good-faith effort to follow up the happily-ever-after ROTJ ending by bringing meaning and purpose to what was nothing but a money-driven, commercial ambition in the first place.

I accept the entire ST, while only really embracing one of its films, because I accept the PT (without embracing *any* of its films). Both trilogies put my heroes through the ringer, and re-contextualized things that I object to, but neither was made to give me the finger. They were telling a story of failure and ultimate redemption. The older I get, the more I understand how that message is valuable to convey in art. The ends justify the means. And it's Star Wars. :)
 
I watched some of TFA again yesterday. It was on the Movie Channel when I was on lunch (still working from home). It's a shame how Episodes 8 and 9 turned out because TFA was a good starting point. Rey had a decent introduction and when Han shows up the film is elevated up a notch.
 
It was a good starting point and the theories were better than what we actually got

Born from the force like anakin was

A reincarnation of a long lost jedi

The lost sister/ cousin of kylo

Finn and Rey were both force sensitive and were going to form a jedi army

Even the force vampire crap snikt kept pushing was miles better than what we got.

Palpatine?s granddaughter was absolutely forced and you have to be kidding yourself if you think that flows well.
 
I too would want to see this. It would be easy to do as well and I feel like Disney would make BANK on it. I still don?t get how you find the hallway scene fine. That is some of the worst acting in Star Wars with the comedic falling... Whoever made RO Vader hallway scene needs to remake the OT scene shot for shot, just with better visuals/fx and acting.

Maybe I am not sure which Hallway scene you are talking about.. Which part and what exactly is the issue.
 
You all dont understand..


The skywalkers are a blood thirsty family and this is the end they deserve.

Anakin Solo - Child Killer and Murderer of Billions.
Luke Skywalker - The best of the Bunch but wanted to kill a defenseless teenager. The only way to surpress his blood lust was to go into hiding.
Leia - A War Hawk plain and simple. She also seemed have little or no care about son's murderous ways. Marries a pirate.
Kylo - Father Killer and Murderer of Billions.

Nah this is how it all should have ended.






:)
 
You all dont understand..


The skywalkers are a blood thirsty family and this is the end they deserve.

Anakin Solo - Child Killer and Murderer of Billions.
Luke Skywalker - The best of the Bunch but wanted to kill a defenseless teenager. The only way to surpress his blood lust was to go into hiding.
Leia - A War Hawk plain and simple. She also seemed have little or no care about son's murderous ways. Marries a pirate.
Kylo - Father Killer and Murderer of Billions.

Nah this is how it all should have ended.






:)

You forgot jedi order kidnapper of children lol
 
Fine by me. I don't even need a new ST. The important thing is simply the knowledge that nothing plays out like it does in the existing ST and there is never a need to depict the classic heroes at the ends of their lives. Any future appearances by them can be deepfake cameos of their younger selves if anything at all.

I was thinking of Jye's comment last night and thought the same thing as you just wrote.. I mean. I never wanted a sequel to the OT.. Not this far out anyways.

The OT cast was too old and there was no need for it really.

I like the ST Ok. I have to twist myself into a pretzel to enjoy it overall. But I can find some enjoyment out of it.

But if I had my way... It would have never happened or it would have taken place years after the OT characters passed away. Luke could be a force Ghost and that would have been good enough.

But it does exist and because of that I enjoy the little Easter eggs about the ST in Mando.. I am all for more info about the First Order and Emperor / Snoke clones.

I have discovered that I am happier excepting the PT and ST as Canon then trying to ignore it. I tried that for years with the PT. It never really worked. TCW and TROS helped me accept the PT and I am happier for it.

When I ended up enjoying TROS and it helped me accept the other two.. I was happier for it.


So I am enjoying this Universe building up to the ST. Its there.. So l hope that the new talent can make the best of it.


but I understand why some just cant accept the path the OT characters took.. It is a punch to the balls for sure.

I care about getting the best out of a movie, from visuals to acting. Not sure why some of you are so against an update for selected scenes and all updates on FX. Both OG and new versions can coexist just fine.

I think it has a lot to do with the fear of said scenes just not working.. Kind of like Greedo shooting first.. Regardless of how dumb it is that he now shoots first.. Its even dumber because of how dumb it looks. I worry that they would mess with things that would end up looking worse and not better.

The Death Star Battle would look great because we know they can pull that off. I don't feel as comfortable with them replacing actors with CGI stunt doubles or dubbing better line delivery.

But won?t any conflict you come up with a returning emperor for a new ST still end up usurping the ROTJ victory.

You are not suggesting closing the saga sans emperor are you :horror

Echuta!

You can have all that after our OT characters have passed away.. Thus having their happy ending.

Thanks Bravomite.

The key difference between the PT and ST for me is this

PT - desirable story - badly told but worth considering on its merits however few they may be
ST - undesirable story - could be well told or not - who cares when it's such an undesirable story

Again, this is all easy to say with hindsight. I was as excited as anyone when they announced the ST.
Second caveat - what is desirable is subjective. My posts will not convince anyone who wanted to see the OT heroes broken down and demolished in their senior years for whatever drama could be eked out of that. To each his own I suppose.

I think I was one of the only ones not excited for the ST. I was worried about the OT cast being in it.

I thought they would only be in the first film though and then be relegated to cameo's in the 2nd two.. A pass of the baton if you will.

Its strange.. I fully understand everyone's feeling about the ST and how the characters were treated but at the same time I enjoy the hell out of Ford's and Hamill's performance.

However.. I really think the ST was saved for me with that one appearance by Han in TROS. It was an amazing moment for me and somehow just brought the trilogy together.. For me.
 
The instructive irony here is that you are a bigger fan of TROS than I will ever be, yet I accept that film more than you do. :) I hate that it undid everything about Anakin's destiny and ultimate achievement that George spent ten years building in the PT. I hate how it used Rey in such a way that she ended up accomplishing something that Anakin and Luke failed to do. And more importantly for me, I hate when any professional writer relies on so many ****ing plot conveniences and contrivances rather than make the effort to lay the groundwork for earned plot progression.

Yet every day that goes by, I get closer and closer to embracing that film (and the entire trilogy as a result). That's because if I didn't embrace it as canon, but *do* accept the PT as canon, I'd be a hypocrite.

When I grew up with the OT, Yoda was (and is) my favorite character. He wasn't on Dagobah just hiding and refusing to fight the Empire; he was there because he was *not* a warrior. He was a Jedi guru, training Jedi about the perils of violence and how the Force allows you to circumvent the need for weapons and destruction.

Likewise, Obi-Wan Kenobi was an old hermit who had been betrayed by Anakin Skywalker. Kenobi didn't come across as a failure, nor a coward. He was someone who had gotten "too old" to effectively overturn what had happened to his former pupil, and needed Luke to fulfill the new hope.

Then came the PT. My favorite characters got completely crapped on. Yoda was actually now a warrior who took up the sword and went toe to toe with a Sith like Palpatine. Wait, what!? Why the **** did he exile himself for 20 years like a loser if he was that powerful and willing to *take the fight* to Palpatine before hiding?

And Kenobi was no longer just an honorable Jedi veteran who had simply been betrayed by a friend. He became a failure (and a serial liar). Fans of the PT go gaga over a Filoni speech that frames Obi-Wan as inadequate to properly train Anakin. The turn to Darth Vader was because Kenobi failed as a master. WTF!? :slap

And I won't even get into my feelings on PT Anakin's irreconcilable dissonance with OT Vader's persona. Nor will I get into the cinematic execution failures of the PT. The point is that I *embrace* those prequel movies as canon. They weren't what I wanted, and they turned my heroes into losers and liars, but they had a purpose in telling a story of failure and redemption. I can accept it because it ends with an ultimate triumph. There's a purpose to the "ruining" of my heroes in telling a generational story of lessons learned from failure.

I've read enough about JJ and Rian to know that they were both huge fans of SW. They may have had competing visions for what they think a SW movie should say about the conflict within (and I align much more with Rian on that), but they both tried to honor what they were fans of. They made a good-faith effort to follow up the happily-ever-after ROTJ ending by bringing meaning and purpose to what was nothing but a money-driven, commercial ambition in the first place.

I accept the entire ST, while only really embracing one of its films, because I accept the PT (without embracing *any* of its films). Both trilogies put my heroes through the ringer, and re-contextualized things that I object to, but neither was made to give me the finger. They were telling a story of failure and ultimate redemption. The older I get, the more I understand how that message is valuable to convey in art. The ends justify the means. And it's Star Wars. :)



Good post..

Both PT and ST took fav characters into directions I had no desire to see them go in. Yoda being one of the worst offenders to me.

I have come to accept it all good and bad.

I am a happier SW fan for it.
 
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