Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[Khev]

Luke's move on Crate is the most Jedi thing a jedi could do. Save lives without taking any.

Admittedly its not nearly as exciting as destroying droids in a hallways

Ha ha, in some ways yes, though I personally think that the greatest appeal of Mando Luke taking down the Dark Troopers is due to its overlapping symmetry with *both* Obi-Wan and Qui Gon cutting down Battle Droids in TPM *and* Vader's rampage in RO. If you detach Luke's attack from said symmetry and just take it on its own then it's cool and fun but nothing to write home about. Watching actual Mark Hamill face down the entire FO through the Force will always be the greater moment for me.

Coincidentally enough I did watch Star Wars Theory guys's reaction to Mando Luke just last night and I found it quite fascinating that such a scene could make a man born in 1990 and who saw the OT for the first time in 1996 openly bawl on camera. I mean I was there from the beginning and I sure as hell don't remember anyone weeping when Luke choked Jabba's guards on his way to the throne room, lol. I assume some people will say "oh but it was all about redeeming the character after the ST screwed him up." And if that's your point of view then fine but that's *exactly* how I felt about seeing RO Vader and RR Fett after ROTJ and the PT "ruined" those characters *and* their modern rampages were even more badass than Luke's and I still didn't tear up. Just said "about damn time" and then virtually high-fived all my buddies online, lol.

 

[Khev]

Didn't Holdo break her movie's own message: she totally attacked what she hated

Maybe she was aiming for Rose, lol.

 

[jye4ever]

Senator Khev's first bill introduced into congress:

Doomcockers should not be allowed to cry for OT era Luke lol

 

[Khev]

So this is how the tears fall, with Doomcockian applause, lol.

 

[JAWS]

Ha ha, in some ways yes, though I personally think that the greatest appeal of Mando Luke taking down the Dark Troopers is due to its overlapping symmetry with *both* Obi-Wan and Qui Gon cutting down Battle Droids in TPM *and* Vader's rampage in RO. If you detach Luke's attack from said symmetry and just take it on its own then it's cool and fun but nothing to write home about. Watching actual Mark Hamill face down the entire FO through the Force will always be the greater moment for me.

Yeah I think thats a good point.. Thought the Qui Gon and Obi Wan thing never entered my mind and still doesn't with repeat viewings

Coincidentally enough I did watch Star Wars Theory guys's reaction to Mando Luke just last night and I found it quite fascinating that such a scene could make a man born in 1990 and who saw the OT for the first time in 1996 openly bawl on camera. I mean I was there from the beginning and I sure as hell don't remember anyone weeping when Luke choked Jabba's guards on his way to the throne room, lol. I assume some people will say "oh but it was all about redeeming the character after the ST screwed him up." And if that's your point of view then fine but that's *exactly* how I felt about seeing RO Vader and RR Fett after ROTJ and the PT "ruined" those characters *and* their modern rampages were even more badass than Luke's and I still didn't tear up. Just said "about damn time" and then virtually high-fived all my buddies online, lol

Thank god.. I thought I was dead inside for not crying.

I agree.. A cool moment for sure and probably the equivalent for people who thought Luke was ruined by the ST as we had for feeling Vader was ruined by the PT. We both got out redemption scene for our characters.

To be fair.. Luke's moment was played to be more emotional. Obviously it worked on many.



Ya know.. I wonder if I have a lack of attachment to the OT hero's. I mean I love Luke, Han, and Leia.. but SW for me has always been much more to me then its main three heros.. Hell its always been more about the Villains and the side hero's for me. Maybe its cause they all look cooler

I mean I have never owned a high end collectible of Luke, Leia or Han but I have owned several Vader's Fett's and Stormtroopers. Hell I have three PF StormTroopers to go with my PF Fett and IS Vader. I have the hot Toys Yoda and the R2-D2. I had the PF 3P0 and R2 and foolishly sold them but plan on getting them again.. I keep being tempted by the 1/6 Jabba also. I love collecting smaller sized ships from the OT like X-Wings and Tie Fighters but just have never wanted a Han Solo statue.

Part of that could be because if I have a Han I have to have a Chewie and a Luke and a Leia and the Droids.. But I am never really tempted by smaller collectibles of those characters either.. Of course you loose the likeness with the smaller stuff.

As a kid I like having those action figures and I always played with them and loved them... But they did not stick with me like the Villains did.

I wonder if thats why it did not bother me as much as some how Luke was portrayed in TLJ.. Or how Han became a scoundrel again TFA. I liked them all but they were never my main hero's.. I was always more of an Indiana Jones, Conan the Barbarian, and Rambo kind of kid.

I love the main three but never had them up high on a pedestal. So having them become more complicated and flawed was more interesting to me.

 

[jye4ever]

JAWS reaction to Luke in Mando

 

[Wor-Gar]

Just give JAWS a cracker. All this time, all we had to do was give him a wafer-thin cracker.

 

[ironwez20]

Hey brought up the SM character connection... I happen to agree.. we are saying that if the PT could have just made us care about the three main characters like SM we would probably like the films a lot... No mention of ST because the some of the characters worked for us. I will take Han, Luke, Kyle, Rey, and even Poe and Finn over Anakin and Padme... Obi wan is the best of the bunch but he has nothing to play against.

This is the OT / PT / ST thread so you can?t complain about bringing up the faults of the PT like you loved to do in TROS thread... Why not tell us how we are wrong and that the PT really had great characters and relationship building. Good luck

I only bring up the faults in the Tros thread cause you guys cry about the PT in thst thread aswell.

Also like I said it may not of been told well but I actually felt it when obiwan and anakin fought. We could feel the emotion when he said he loved him. You could see the hurt in his eyes as they fought. So spare me the whole ..... no relationship crap cause ST has none.

I felt nothing when Rey and kylo fought. Cause I knew she was going to win cause she has no development or character. She always won and has beaten him before. So really your scared for kylo cause you know he?s gonna get his ass kicked again

I was on the edge of my seat in the mustafar fight cause we knew anakin was going to lose but we didn?t know at which point cause they were both evenly matched and you still couldn?t see anakin lose but it was crazy when he did.

Yea sure the dialogue can be bad but ROTs has tons of emotion that still make the film.

But muh OT characters!!!!!!

 

[ironwez20]

The ST might just be the most misunderstood trilogy in history

See it?s really silly post like this that make it hard to takeST fans seriously.

There is literally nothing to understand or probe into . Bad writing is bad writing . It?s poorly written.

 

[JAWS]

I only bring up the faults in the Tros thread cause you guys cry about the PT in thst thread aswell.

Also like I said it may not of been told well but I actually felt it when obiwan and anakin fought. We could feel the emotion when he said he loved him. You could see the hurt in his eyes as they fault. So spare me the whole ..... no relationship crap cause ST has none

You may have felt it because Ewan pulled off a good performance in that one scene.. We feel it because we know what it to come of all of this.. But its not like it was earned.

And sorry this

Felt more like a relationship between friends then this ever did.

And what I mean by this is not that one was a hug and one was a good bye... But that i felt in all three films that Finn and Rey had a bond and cared about each other. (Less so in TROS) I just never got that feeling with Obi Wan and Anakin.. Other then being told I should feel that way.

I felt like Finn and Poe had a better more believable friendship also and Rey and Kylo were enemies half the time and they had more of connection then Obi Wan and Anakin... Sorry.. Its just one of the two main areas that I thought the PT really messed up.

It was too little too late with the 1/2 hour adventure that Anakin and Obi Wan had in the beginning of ROTS. They wasted TPM with having them have no relationship... Wasted them in AOTC with them being a-holes to each other.. and then expected us to believe they loved each other as friends in ROTS... All the while getting through bad dialogue and some cringe acting.

 

[JAWS]

There is literally nothing to understand or probe into . Bad writing is bad writing . It?s poorly written.

See you understand the issues with the PT after all.



I know you are talking about the ST obviously but you know that statement works with the PT just as well.

You just prefer the overall story and plot of the PT.. Thats cool. But neither side should pretend that the PT or ST are well written. They just have different issues in terms of writing.

 

[JAWS]

JAWS reaction to Luke in Mando

Just give JAWS a cracker. All this time, all we had to do was give him a wafer-thin cracker.

Took me like 5 min to understand what Wor-Gar was saying..

I thought she was putting a tissue up to her nose at first and not eating a cracker

 

[a-dev]

It was too little too late with the 1/2 hour adventure that Anakin and Obi Wan had in the beginning of ROTS. They wasted TPM with having them have no relationship... Wasted them in AOTC with them being a holes to each other.. and then expected us to believe they loved each other as friends in ROTS... All the while getting through bad dialogue and some cringe acting.

You'd think he would have reversed that to make it a more believable transition into the enemies they became - i.e have them best buds in AOTC but maybe a bit of tension towards the end to clue you into the fact that things were going to go sour in ROTS. I'd love to know Lucas's thinking behind having their final scene together (before Anakin's fall to the Dark Side) be completely on good terms - exchanging sincere and fond farewells.

It all goes back to TPM - so much could have been better if Anakin had been Luke's age in that film and, much as I liked him, leave out Qui-Gon altogether. He was an unnecessary 'subversion of expectations'.

So you'd have

TPM - Master/Padawan part of Obi-wan and Anakin's relationship
AOTC - the 'friends' part
ROTS - Where it all goes to ***t

 

[Khev]

Ya know.. I wonder if I have a lack of attachment to the OT hero's. I mean I love Luke, Han, and Leia.. but SW for me has always been much more to me then its main three heros..

I definitely have an attachment to the main OT heroes as my son Luke can attest, lol. But I do agree that SW is much more than just them, especially with regard to collectability. Its hard to beat Fett, Vader, and the classic Stormtrooper when it comes to statues and toys.

 

[Khev]

You'd think he would have reversed that to make it a more believable transition into the enemies they became - i.e have them best buds in AOTC but maybe a bit of tension towards the end to clue you into the fact that things were going to go sour in ROTS. I'd love to know Lucas's thinking behind having their final scene together (before Anakin's fall to the Dark Side) be completely on good terms - exchanging sincere and fond farewells.

It all goes back to TPM - so much could have been better if Anakin had been Luke's age in that film and, much as I liked him, leave out Qui-Gon altogether. He was an unnecessary 'subversion of expectations'.

Yep, agreed on all of the above and it boggles the mind that George chose the path for those two characters that he did.

So you'd have

TPM - Master/Padawan part of Obi-wan and Anakin's relationship
AOTC - the 'friends' part
ROTS - Where it all goes to ***t

Instead of:

TPM: Who is this annoying kid
AOTC: Know your place padawan/I swear you will be the death of me
ROTS: Goodbye old friend/I loved you

Huh?

And on a completely unrelated note I know the conversation has moved on from the ST/Alien 3 comparison but my point with all of that wasn't to somehow make you like or even appreciate the ST with such a comparison (since nothing anyone could have said in the mid-90's could have changed my irritation with what A3 did) but rather to maybe shed light on *why* I personally (and assumedly other ST fans as well) *am* able to appreciate the ST. No it isn't the story I would have chosen to tell but now that we have it I can step back and say "wow, that is actually pretty amazing for what it is." And like A3 since so many people just dismiss it out of hand it's even kind of fun to be in the seemingly less vocal club that does appreciate it.

 

[Khev]

You may have felt it because Ewan pulled off a good performance in that one scene.. We feel it because we know what it to come of all of this.. But its not like it was earned.

And sorry this

Felt more like a relationship between friends then this ever did.

And what I mean by this is not that one was a hug and one was a good bye... But that i felt in all three films that Finn and Rey had a bond and cared about each other. (Less so in TROS) I just never got that feeling with Obi Wan and Anakin.. Other then being told I should feel that way.

I felt like Finn and Poe had a better more believable friendship also and Rey and Kylo were enemies half the time and they had more of connection then Obi Wan and Anakin... Sorry.. Its just one of the two main areas that I thought the PT really messed up.

It was too little too late with the 1/2 hour adventure that Anakin and Obi Wan had in the beginning of ROTS. They wasted TPM with having them have no relationship... Wasted them in AOTC with them being a-holes to each other.. and then expected us to believe they loved each other as friends in ROTS... All the while getting through bad dialogue and some cringe acting.

Yes all the main characters in the ST had infinitely more chemistry with one another than the three leads in the PT who supposedly were "brothers" or married for years on end!

"But Rey and Poe don't even meet until the end of TLJ!" Yep, and that literally proves our point. Rey and Poe play off each other much better as brief competitive rivals than Anakin and Padme did as *husband and expectant wife* lol.

 

[ironwez20]

See you understand the issues with the PT after all.



I know you are talking about the ST obviously but you know that statement works with the PT just as well.

You just prefer the overall story and plot of the PT.. Thats cool. But neither side should pretend that the PT or ST are well written. They just have different issues in terms of writing.

What are u talking about. They say the ST is written all the time and u do to lol

 

[ironwez20]

You may have felt it because Ewan pulled off a good performance in that one scene.. We feel it because we know what it to come of all of this.. But its not like it was earned.

And sorry this

Felt more like a relationship between friends then this ever did.

And what I mean by this is not that one was a hug and one was a good bye... But that i felt in all three films that Finn and Rey had a bond and cared about each other. (Less so in TROS) I just never got that feeling with Obi Wan and Anakin.. Other then being told I should feel that way.

I felt like Finn and Poe had a better more believable friendship also and Rey and Kylo were enemies half the time and they had more of connection then Obi Wan and Anakin... Sorry.. Its just one of the two main areas that I thought the PT really messed up.

It was too little too late with the 1/2 hour adventure that Anakin and Obi Wan had in the beginning of ROTS. They wasted TPM with having them have no relationship... Wasted them in AOTC with them being a-holes to each other.. and then expected us to believe they loved each other as friends in ROTS... All the while getting through bad dialogue and some cringe acting.

Sighhhhh. Cracks fingers.


How My guy?

Finn and Rey had even less screen time than anakin and obiwan? What are you talking about?
The dude barely knows her. When they first met she attacks him. At the end of the first film he is unconscious and at the end of TLJ they hug . What? No. You woke up? O wow your ok. Nothing. Just a hug not even a surprised look. And still it?s forced. They shared no chemistry. Finn has a crush but it?s like he?s never seen a girl before. He followed her like some idiot who?s never gotten laid.

That?s more believable then two jedi who have been in the trenches together to you? We?ve seen these two interact for THREE films and a tv show which elevated the emotion.

But you got more out of a forced hug between strangers? They have literally no scenes except together. Rey and kylo were closer than Finn and Rey.

Damn I know y?all hate the PT but this blind capping has got to stop. Opnions are opinions but don?t fault the other when the other does it just as bad if not worse.

Like seriously friends? There relationship is a joke. Dude barely knows that girl and talks about when you looked at me you looked at me when nobody else has for the first time.

She literally accused you of being a thief and beat u with a stick.

Damn. Stop the capping please lol

 

[Khev]

ironwez you and I have better chemistry than PT Anakin and Obi-Wan did, lol.

 

[ironwez20]

Yes all the main characters in the ST had infinitely more chemistry with one another than the three leads in the PT who supposedly were "brothers" or married for years on end!

"But Rey and Poe don't even meet until the end of TLJ!" Yep, and that literally proves our point. Rey and Poe play off each other much better as brief competitive rivals than Anakin and Padme did as *husband and expectant wife* lol.

No they don?t ..... the main gripe is how the hell does Rey even know poe. Stop. I?m starting to think the PT angers you guys cause

1.you keep bringing it up in every Star Wars thread comparing it to the ST

2. You seem mad and confused it?s more accepted than ST abd this seems to peeve you so you point out these flaws that are also in the ST but are waaaaaay worse . Ducky and many others keep shutting you down . It?s funny