Thank you for pointing that out to me, young fella. It's not like I've actually watched him before and seen him get full of himself and his brilliant theories or anything.
Ironic.
So, is it your point of view that Palpatine is saying that the Plaguies-related power to keep someone from dying is something the Jedi know about?
Or are you claiming that Palps is suggesting that the Jedi know some other separate power, but only let those ranked as Jedi Master learn it?
See Bravo?s post.
Keep in mind that Anakin had seen Jedi die with actual Jedi Masters in the area. None of them used this "secret ability" to prevent the deaths. I'd love to know where you're getting this interpretation from.
When was that? I?m curious. Not in TPM. They were surrounded on Geonosis. Fighting Palps in ROTS....
What I said was that Anakin would no longer resent them for withholding knowledge of a secret power to keep people from dying. Any resentment about other things is something I never touched on, so no clue why you're adding that in here.
Sure ya did.
On Mustafar he shouldn't be as far gone down the dark side seduction as he'd be in ROTJ, and yet he still chose to end Palps to save his son. Twenty years earlier I'm supposed to believe that he goes from turning Palpatine in as being the secret Sith to slaughtering younglings and choking his "beloved" wife?
I can accept a gradual dark turn, but it would need to be set up better in the actual films. Anakin goes from praising Obi-Wan as a father to wanting to kill him in, what, a single day? Do you not see how the slaughter of younglings would be irredeemable? And he got to that point *that* quickly?
You just won?t accept what is in front of you huh? It was a slow burn. And it was set up fine if you think a little. Sorry you weren?t spoonfed it. Attachment to his mother, fear of losing her, is why Anakin was not to be trained. Even as a child, it was established he was dangerous with his attachments. See Yoda?s quote on Fear... leads to anger... leads to hate.... leads to suffering. He was fearful of losing his mother and in AOTC he did. He now has anger towards the Jedi for not saving her, towards himself for not being strong enough to save her, and hates the Tusken?s. ?I hate them...? and he killed them all. This entire process starts to repeats itself with Padme and his visions. He has no one who is willing to help him and he isn?t going to lose her like he lost his mother. So, he is willing to do whatever it takes, whatever path he must travel, to save her. All this has been built up, fuming, he still carries this anger within himself.
You don't accept that 30 years is enough for Luke to go from OT hero to grief-stricken exile; but 5 minutes is enough for Anakin to go from good-hearted Jedi, husband, and father-to-be all the way to child killer and wife choker? A turn that dramatic in the same day?
Luke lost his Aunt and Uncle, then lost Ben, saw a planet get blown up, lost multiple friends, saw death non-stop while in the Rebel Alliance... and still kept on his path. Never gave up. But, somehow, has magically turned to a POS coward all from once little 20 second scene? Not even comparable whatsoever.
I get that dark side temptation puts you on a dark path that you might not ever get away from. I actually do understand that, and like it as a story element. But I think it would've been better storytelling in ROTS if that path was longer than my driveway.
Anakin was resisting the dark side (no matter what hangups he had about his mom or the Council) just before turning. Then he just went with it, for Padme's sake. Then he choked her out. And after learning of losing Padme, he still went with it. I think it could've been handled/told better. A lot better. But I'm 44 years old, so you must think it's just senility. Have pity on me, young one. I was watching these PT movies when you were still just TheDuckling.
What was he gonna do afterwards? Go back to the Jedi? He wasn?t strong enough to defeat the Emperor. Kill himself? He was stuck and then consumed.
Ouch.. Its almost like you watched the PT and Ducky didnt
There is that circle jerk.
ST handled Luke, Han, Leia, Lando, C-3PO, R2-D2, Yoda, Palpatine way worse than PT treated Vader, Obi-Wan, Boba Fett, Palpatine, Yoda.
Atleast the Prequel Trilogy didn?t murder the OT characters and piss on their graves. Worse thing they did was present them as annoying little brats.
Also Obi-Wan and Palpatine are their best versions/selves in the PT.
That is the general consensus nowadays from a great chunk of fans. Not a hot take at all.
I?ve missed some of the back and forth so someone might have already pointed this out but Theory?s Anakin ?theory? wasn?t plucked out of thin air but taken from Mathew Stover?s Revenge of the Sith novelisation (perhaps no longer canon because as everyone knows Star Wars doesn?t have 900 page novels and comic books to draw from).
In the novel, one of the perks upon being granted the rank of Master is that, in recognition of your skill and temperance as a Jedi, you get access to the restricted, Masters-only section of the Jedi Archives.
This section includes Sith holocrons and other artifacts once belonging to their order. It is the primary means by which Jedi Masters come to understand the Dark Side and the secrets of the Sith in particular (learn about their ideological enemies).
Anakin was hoping that on being granted the rank of Master, he would be able to delve into this forbidden knowledge to find the secret to cheating death, per Palpatine?s story regarding Darth Plagueis. If Plagueis was real, Anakin reasoned, then there was a chance that his knowledge would be somewhere in there and that he could use it to prevent Padme from dying.
Being denied this chance effectively cut the hope out from under Anakin completely, with the clock ticking and his nightmares about Padme?s death going nowhere.
The book elaborates further that by the time of the events that transpire in the Chancellor?s office, Anakin has not slept for days at a time, actively avoiding doing so in order not to have that dream again, and is depending on the Force to keep him propped up. So he?s more than a bit unhinged at this point.
So by all means laugh at the idea (especially as the restricted section sounds like it is something from Harry Potter) but at the end of the day it all comes from Lucas Film source material. The book really does a good job of fleshing out Anakin?s turn and I wish more of it ended up on screen.
Yup. This.
That novelization version makes Anakin dumber than he was in the movie. At least in the movie, without any mention of a "restricted section," Anakin sees Palpatine as his *only* resource for learning the Sith "secret to immortality," thereby giving him a reason to keep Palps alive. But by introducing another option, Anakin would have to be an idiot to keep Palpatine alive rather than turning him in and proving to be the Chosen One who led to the Sith threat being eliminated. Jedi Master rank a certainty at that point, and access granted to all those "restricted" secrets.
What's the point of introducing an obsession over being denied access to a "restricted section" if he only learns about it *after* Palpatine's talk at the opera? From that point, he's seeing that he had *two* options rather than just a single desperate reliance on Palpatine. One option requires keeping a Sith Master alive; the other option fulfills the Chosen One prophecy and grants Anakin his Jedi Master access. Choosing the first one makes Anakin either really stupid or just determined to join the dark side. How is that better?
It ends up making Anakin look even worse. This just keeps getting funnier.
I?ll say it again....
Anakin wanted to become a master to save those he loved from dying. In fact, the opera scene is genius in Anakin?s turn. It makes Anakin think about who the Jedi really are. He claims they are selfless, he claims they help people, but you can see the doubt in his delivery and performance, you can see the realization taking place and Anakin realizes the Jedi aren?t these things. They didn?t help his mother, they aren?t willing to help Padme. Your interpretation of the line is missed. When Palpatine says ?not from a Jedi? Palpatine doesn?t mean the Jedi don?t know this power, he means that Jedi won?t teach it to Anakin... because they never were willing to help him with really anything. And so Anakin, after all these years of not getting help, realizes that the dark side, that joining the Sith, would lead him to discovering these powers, that he would be able to learn these powers going down a new path.
He couldn?t figure it out alone. Palpatine said they would do it together and Anakin?s trust and belief in the Jedi was lost. He never really had two options simultaneously. It was getting the rank of master, but then he lost his trust in the order and at that point a new path opened up... Palpatine.
