Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[Khev]

That first video is such ****ing garbage hahaha

Luke lived through tragedy in the OT and continued on. But all of a sudden he is broken and can’t handle it? Nah.

Then trying to equate Vader to Ben is just delusional.

Luke: I can’t kill my own father!

Kenobi: Can you kill a nephew?

Luke: Yeah no issue


Luke being a straight up baby back ***** is not good story telling.

Well if you're going to ignore what's on film while actually watching them then of course I would expect you to ignore what's on film when someone else explains it to you.

They just continue living in their own little heads.

 

[ironwez20]

I?ve already said this multiple times over. I?ve posted stats about action figure sales, comic sales, novels, video games... made posts about the state of the franchise after ROTS vs TROS. They don?t want to hear it or admit it. They just continue living in their own little heads.

Yea. Mando is literally keeping it alive. After ROTS the franchise was still popular and people wanted more . Now people are meh towards Star Wars and marvel surpassed it

 

[ZE_501]

Yea. Mando is literally keeping it alive. After ROTS the franchise was still popular and people wanted more . Now people are meh towards Star Wars and marvel surpassed it

Besides being more entertaining a lot of the time, Marvel is ultimately more relatable. Not that it isn't pure fantasy, but it's pure fantasy dressed in everyday trappings. Coffee and beers, pop culture references, humour from Earth etc. -- not that it doesn't get super weird and cosmic from time to time. I think some audiences find it more accessible.

 

[TheDucky]

Besides being more entertaining a lot of the time, Marvel is ultimately more relatable. Not that it isn't pure fantasy, but it's pure fantasy dressed in everyday trappings. Coffee and beers, pop culture references, humour from Earth etc. -- not that it doesn't get super weird and cosmic from time to time. I think some audiences find it more accessible.

I don’t think being relatable matters at all. When adjusted for inflation, ANH ranks #2 all time in gross. Ultimately the ST sucked and wasn’t fun where as Marvel didn’t suck and was fun.

Now that Star Wars doesn’t suck again and is fun again, we are seeing just how dominant and popular it can be.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]Great stuff that shows that contrary to certain claims RJ did indeed "do his homework."

While I won't contradict what was explicitly said because it appears to hold up, I don't know if RDJ did his homework to that degree. It's not that it was some master-stroke so much as not really contradicting anything we've seen before, i.e. established conventions of space combat.

I'm also not sure why the pursuers in the slowest chase ever didn't just jump ahead?

I'm sure Khev is ready with an explanation though.

 

[TheDucky]

Well if you're going to ignore what's on film while actually watching them then of course I would expect you to ignore what's on film when someone else explains it to you.

I’m not ignoring what’s on film. What’s on film is stupid and an insult to the hero we knew in the OT.

There is a reason why Luke’s return in Mando gained far more attention and love than his garbage cowardly stunt in TLJ.

 

[ZE_501]

As riddled with other problems as they were, I still think the first two PT movies laid enough of a foundation to put Anakin on the dark side path. I just don't understand why George doubled back in ROTS to repeat that foundation and keep Anakin compassionate and wrestling with fear again for the first two acts of that movie.

Because George isn't a good writer and the entire property has been plagued with sloppy writing since 1977.

Star Wars is like a very sexy, very stupid individual you just know you're going to sleep with.

In the OT, Luke would've gone to the dark side if he followed through on killing Vader. Just that one act, coming from the fear of having his sister corrupted. Anakin had already had that moment with the Tuskens. Fear established in TPM; anger and hate established in AOTC. Anakin didn't stop himself. Done! Now build on the dark side taking him over. "Consume you it will." "Forever will it dominate your destiny."[...]

While I don't hold The Clone Wars in high regard, it does have its moments of greatness. I particularly liked Anakin resorting to hurting prisoners and working them over to extract information when the other Jedi wouldn't, in order to accomplish a greater good. That was completely believable.

 

[Khev]

While I won't contradict what was explicitly said because it appears to hold up, I don't know if RDJ did his homework to that degree. It's not that it was some master-stroke so much as not really contradicting anything we've seen before, i.e. established conventions of space combat.

I'm also not sure why the pursuers in the slowest chase ever didn't just jump ahead?

I'm sure Khev is ready with an explanation though.

No I don't have an explanation for that nor do I have an explanation for why Hux wouldn't let the TIE Fighters (which are clearly armed with their own torpedoes) just fly ahead and take out the Resistance cruisers on their own. Okay fine call Kylo Ren back because he's in the top command but do they really care about "supporting" all the other Fighters? How caring of the FO, lol.

I do consider those tactical oddities to be among my chiefest complaints against the film.

But kudos to you for recognizing the valid points about the "physics" of the blaster range, shields, and whatnot that were established in previous films and utilized quite nicely in TLJ.

 

[ajp4mgs]

That first video is such ****ing garbage hahaha

Luke lived through tragedy in the OT and continued on. But all of a sudden he is broken and can?t handle it? Nah.

Then trying to equate Vader to Ben is just delusional.

Luke: I can?t kill my own father!

Kenobi: Can you kill a nephew?

Luke: Yeah no issue


Luke being a straight up baby back ***** is not good story telling.

But how is it "all of a sudden" that he is broken? The ST takes place 30 years after ROTJ. Luke even references the *cycle* that is destroying his family (and the galaxy) again. It's not just "Oh hey, something bad happened with my nephew; I quit." There's a context laid out *in the film* to put Ben's turn into perspective.

After *30 years* go by, the cycle starts repeating itself. This time, Luke is in the Kenobi/Yoda role. And it's with his sister's only son, not just some slave kid that got dumped on him for training.

And if I just change one line in your post, I can show you where I think you're missing the point:

That first video is such ****ing garbage hahaha

Luke lived through tragedy in the OT and continued on. But all of a sudden he is broken and can?t handle it? Nah.

Then trying to equate Vader to Ben is just delusional.

Luke: I can?t kill my own father!

Kenobi: What if he threatens your sister?

Luke: Yeah no issue


Luke being a straight up baby back ***** is not good story telling.

 

[The Buffinator]

I don?t think being relatable matters at all. When adjusted for inflation, ANH ranks #2 all time in gross. Ultimately the ST sucked and wasn?t fun where as Marvel didn?t suck and was fun.

Now that Star Wars doesn?t suck again and is fun again, we are seeing just how dominant and popular it can be.

Wait, now box office adjusted for inflation is important? So that must mean the PT sucks too.

All-Time Box Office Adjusted for Inflation Rankings (Domestic):

ANH - #3, $1,629M;
TFA - #11, $989M;
ESB - #13, $899M;
ROTJ - #17, $860M;
TPM - #19, $826M;
TLJ - #44, $618M;
ROTS - #70, $543M;
TROS - #88, $503M;
AOTC - #100, $489M.

Grand totals: OT first at $3,388M, ST second at $2,110M, with the PT bringing up the rear at a paltry $1,858M. So the PT made $252M less than the ST in adjusted dollars, or the equivalent of the actual gross of 1989's Batman. Which, as I recall, didn't suck and was fun.

 

[ajp4mgs]

While I don't hold The Clone Wars in high regard, it does have its moments of greatness. I particularly liked Anakin resorting to hurting prisoners and working them over to extract information when the other Jedi wouldn't, in order to accomplish a greater good. That was completely believable.

You won't get an argument from me on that point. That's the sort of thing that I'd prefer to have seen more of in ROTS (even the end of AOTC would've been preferable). Then just amplify the mean streak gradually and exponentially as the movie progresses until Palpatine seizes on it and gets Anakin to turn on Obi-Wan and the Jedi.

Having him turn to keep his wife from dying is where I think it all went in a direction that wasn't even necessary. He'd already been through the lost loved one fear scenario. He chose a dark response to it. The Padme angle just created a situation that failed to maintain logical consistency with what Anakin did going forward. For me, at least. Other people loved it, I guess; and that's fine.

No I don't have an explanation for that nor do I have an explanation for why Hux wouldn't let the TIE Fighters (which are clearly armed with their own torpedoes) just fly ahead and take out the Resistance cruisers on their own. Okay fine call Kylo Ren back because he's in the top command but do they really care about "supporting" all the other Fighters? How caring of the FO, lol.

I do consider those tactical oddities to be among my chiefest complaints against the film.

But kudos to you for recognizing the valid points about the "physics" of the blaster range, shields, and whatnot that were established in previous films and utilized quite nicely in TLJ.

As far as the "why not jump ahead?" scenario goes, is that even possible with lightspeed? Wouldn't even the shortest lightspeed jump take them farther away from the cruiser, but just from the front?

The Raddus would still have shields and enough of a distance gap. Nothing more than a 90 degree turn would solve that problem, right?

Regarding the Fighters being deployed, I'm even less certain about that but the torpedoes we saw used didn't disable the cruiser. One instance showed them target the glass section of the main bridge. That sucked out the command crew, but didn't seem like an attempt to damage the structural integrity of the cruiser.

The other strike was on the open hangar to disable the fighter ships (X-Wings and all the others). Again, a targeted strategic strike, but no structural damage done. They just sealed the airlocks in both instances.

But I can understand if this seems like too much of a stretch for you. Just wanted to put some possibilities out there.

 

[Khev]

As far as the "why not jump ahead?" scenario goes, is that even possible with lightspeed? Wouldn't even the shortest lightspeed jump take them farther away from the cruiser, but just from the front?

The Raddus would still have shields and enough of a distance gap. Nothing more than a 90 degree turn would solve that problem, right?

True, Han Solo already showed us how simple it is for a ship to evade Star Destroyers coming at you from opposite sides didn't he. Sure it was with the highly maneuverable Falcon but that was also at point blank range. With the distance between the Destroyers and the Raddus it would have been much easier.

Regarding the Fighters being deployed, I'm even less certain about that but the torpedoes we saw used didn't disable the cruiser. One instance showed them target the glass section of the main bridge. That sucked out the command crew, but didn't seem like an attempt to damage the structural integrity of the cruiser.

The other strike was on the open hangar to disable the fighter ships (X-Wings and all the others). Again, a targeted strategic strike, but no structural damage done. They just sealed the airlocks in both instances.

But I can understand if this seems like too much of a stretch for you. Just wanted to put some possibilities out there.

Valid points on the TIE's with torpedoes. I guess the bigger question is why didn't the FO have updated versions of TIE Bombers which assumedly would have handle the undefended cruisers with ease. But neither question ruins the movie or anything and at worst is a forgivable hand wave.

 

[Khev]

Wait, now box office adjusted for inflation is important? So that must mean the PT sucks too.

All-Time Box Office Adjusted for Inflation Rankings (Domestic):

ANH - #3, $1,629M;
TFA - #11, $989M;
ESB - #13, $899M;
ROTJ - #17, $860M;
TPM - #19, $826M;
TLJ - #44, $618M;
ROTS - #70, $543M;
TROS - #88, $503M;
AOTC - #100, $489M.

Grand totals: OT first at $3,388M, ST second at $2,110M, with the PT bringing up the rear at a paltry $1,858M. So the PT made $252M less than the ST in adjusted dollars, or the equivalent of the actual gross of 1989's Batman. Which, as I recall, didn't suck and was fun.

The audience has spoken.

And this list was prior to Solo and TROS but shows the worldwide adjusted grosses and includes RO which embarrasses 2/3 of the PT even further. Good thing they had decent toys, lol.

A New Hope - $3,210,147,748

The Force Awakens - $2,177,622,188

The Empire Strikes Back - $1,671,305,462

The Phantom Menace - $1,540,567,015

The Last Jedi - $1,332,422,051

Return of the Jedi - $1,197,267,566

Rogue One - $1,098,065,126

Revenge of the Sith - $1,086,406,103

Attack of the Clones - $902,663,675

 

[ajp4mgs]

True, Han Solo already showed us how simple it is for a ship to evade Star Destroyers coming at you from opposite sides didn't he. Sure it was with the highly maneuverable Falcon but that was also at point blank range. With the distance between the Destroyers and the Raddus it would have been much easier.



Valid points on the TIE's with torpedoes. I guess the bigger question is why didn't the FO have updated versions of TIE Bombers which assumedly would have handle the undefended cruisers with ease. But neither question ruins the movie or anything and at worst is a forgivable hand wave.

That last sentence is basically how I approach SW military tactics. There was a time when I would watch ESB pretty much endlessly and start finding more and more strategic and tactical issues that made the Empire look incompetent. It didn't take long for me to let go of that. It's just not the point of these movies. I no longer even bother nitpicking the sorts of things that don't bother me on first or second viewing. The story is what I care about. And if nitpicks do irk me, it's just a matter of how much, and whether or not I enjoyed the story enough to hand wave away, like you said.

 

[Khev]

That last sentence is basically how I approach SW military tactics. There was a time when I would watch ESB pretty much endlessly and start finding more and more strategic and tactical issues that made the Empire look incompetent. It didn't take long for me to let go of that. It's just not the point of these movies. I no longer even bother nitpicking the sorts of things that don't bother me on first or second viewing. The story is what I care about. And if nitpicks do irk me, it's just a matter of how much, and whether or not I enjoyed the story enough to hand wave away, like you said.

Yep, exactly. Of course we're prone to notice things in fantasy films that don't perfectly stand up to scrutiny when we watch them endlessly, lol. But yeah, like you said if they aren't major story issues or things I don't even notice until several viewings in then I tend to just shrug or chuckle, depending on the nature of the issue, and just not worry about it.

 

[Khev]

Another good one:

 

[jye4ever]

Another good one:

Impressive most impressive

 

[jye4ever]

So because one random dude made something up, it becomes gospel and ruins something for good? That?s stupid. I never even heard of this guy before today. These things only ruin it if you let them. It?s like the RedLetterMedia Plinkett prequel reviews. I found them to be humorous and even a bit enlightening, but I never took their opinions as being the gospel.

That?s always been the problem with this community in my opinion, people just parroting other people?s views to form their own opinions. You watch too many youtube videos and social media. With the sheer amount of content out there, anyone can find something to latch onto to validate their ideas.

People can say what they will about the prequels, but in comparison to the ST and TROS, I think Revenge of the Sith ended the saga and franchise on a high note. It didn?t fall on it?s face or ?drive it over the cliff?. In fact, Star Wars was stronger than ever after 2005 and continued to be. I?d argue, stronger than Return of the Jedi. Star Wars practically died after 1983. Still kept goin? in 2006, 2007, 2008, and beyond.

Can?t say the same about the sequels. If it wasn?t for the Mandolorian show, Star Wars wouldn?t have any goodwill left.

You can't be serious.

SWT guy is not just some random dude

He was put on LF radar years ago when he created the most expensive and popular SW fan movie in the history of SW fandom

He is super popular and leading the PT resurgence and is a very vocal anti KK story group influencer

He has dealt directly with LF numerous times over his channel content

LF knows about his popularity and keeps him on their radar

Hidalgo singled him out and only him because SWT guy had previously trashed the story group and the ST

He is the face of the PT resurgence

He is ready to spend major dollars to get an exclusive interview with HC!

He wants a job at LF in the worst possible way but trashing the story group is not helping his cause

He is probably doomcock lol

 

[ironwez20]

You can't be serious.

SWT guy is not just some random dude

He was put on LF radar years ago when he created the most expensive and popular SW fan movie in the history of SW fandom

He is super popular and leading the PT resurgence and is a very vocal anti KK story group influencer

He has dealt directly with LF numerous times over his channel content

LF knows about his popularity and keeps him in on their radar

Hidalgo singled him out and only him because SWT guy had previously trashed the story group and the ST

He is the face of the PT resurgence

He is ready to spend major dollars to get an exclusive interview with HC!

He is probably doomcock lol

........ shut up. You take this stuff way to seriously. There is no PT resurgence and he?s just an Internet personality. You act like the guy is gonna get an executive position

 

[jye4ever]

He's trying

Or do you think he is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of his own money just for the hell of it