Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I dread to think what she'll be able to do by Ep. 9...

She'll be teaching Luke about the force and how to use it

 

[Victοr]

She'll be teaching Luke about the force and how to use it

She'll be able to see far into the future, and thus instructing Luke on what to do... Eh, I wouldn't be surprised if they turn her visions into full-on Ex Machina. Truth be told, I always had a problem with youngsters being more powerful than their mentors. It just undermines the trials the older folks went through, only for a kid to come along and be all "I'm the biggest, the best, better than the rest". With Luke it was handled well IMO. He lost Obi-Wan early on, but he trained to be somewhat of a match for Vader. And hell, he still got his ass kicked. But Rey comes in and she's already ESB lvl Luke...

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

She might be ROTJ level, actually. She was efficient with the lightsaber and she also used Jedi mind tricks. Where did she learn that? Luke didn't do that until ROTJ, and he had seen Obi Wan doing it and he was trained by Yoda, but Rey...she just used it out of nowhere on a storm trooper.

 

[Victοr]

She might be ROTJ level, actually. She was efficient with the lightsaber and she also used Jedi mind tricks. Where did she learn that? Luke didn't do that until ROTJ, and he had seen Obi Wan doing it and he was trained by Yoda, but Rey...she just used it out of nowhere on a storm trooper.

Uh...it's cause she's...uh... Nope, can't think of anything. Luke was Vader's son and he still wasn't as efficient with the Force at the start of the OT. And Rey, who might be Luke's daughter is able to do all that this early? Come on, this is a cop-out. I could buy her being this powerful if she had discovered he abillities earlier and trained alone on Jakku, but resisting Ren, beating him, using Mind Tricks and whatnot is simply too OP.

 

[jye4ever]

If she's a Skywalker, it kind of makes sense, because both Luke and Anakin were good pilots, but still, she just took a ship she had never flown, and not only did she know how to fix it, she could fly it perfectly. Not to mention, it was never established she was a good pilot, unlike with Luke and Anakin. It's like they wrote themselves in a corner with that one, because in the beginning of the film they established that Finn doesn't know how to fly and that's why he helps Poe, because he needed a pilot. So by the time Rey and Finn are escaping that planet, there are only two characters, and Finn can't fly, so Rey by default, had to do it

I would have changed that by not having Poe go missing...why? What's the point of him disappearing? It's not like when he finally shows up again it's a big surprise moment. Poe, Finn, and Rey should have escaped together with Poe flying the Falcon. He can go missing during the whole Alien scene....or he escapes in the pirate ship and we don't see him again until he comes to the rescue. Simple.

In fact, that's even better, because Poe getting taken by the alien really sells the idea that he might really be dead, making his come back later on more memorable, unlike him disappearing after the crash. We knew he wasn't dead.

But they needed to show Finn lying to her that he was resistance, with Poe there he couldn't.

I like yours better.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

But they needed to show Finn lying to her that he was resistance, with Poe there he couldn't.

I like yours better.

There was no payoff either. What was the point of him lying to her anyway? When he finally told her the truth, she was like,"Dude, I just met met you like an hour ago...it's ok, you don't have to leave."

 

[Darkseed]

She might be ROTJ level, actually. She was efficient with the lightsaber and she also used Jedi mind tricks. Where did she learn that? Luke didn't do that until ROTJ, and he had seen Obi Wan doing it and he was trained by Yoda, but Rey...she just used it out of nowhere on a storm trooper.

Always "allowances" with the force powers in SW. Luke was able to call the sabre to him in the Wampa cave in ESB. Ben was dead and didn't show him that trick (I'd argue Death Star trick either) but Luke was able to do all that after a short training stint on the Falcon. I'm gather the force is supposed to be all powerful but easy to learn....unless your name is Anakin. Then you require two films along with numerous cartoons showcasing your training.

 

[amvmm]

If you guys and girls want more background for POE,FINN,REY,PHASMA and the resistance, i recommend reading the book: "Before the Awakening"

It's canon and short!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Always "allowances" with the force powers in SW. Luke was able to call the sabre to him in the Wampa cave in ESB. Ben was dead and didn't show him that trick (I'd argue Death Star trick either) but Luke was able to do all that after a short training stint on the Falcon. I'm gather the force is supposed to be all powerful but easy to learn....unless your name is Anakin. Then you require two films along with numerous cartoons showcasing your training.

He taught him about the universe and the force and all that crap in the first film. The purpose of the the training in the Falcon was for Luke to learn to use his senses and not his eyes. By the end of the film, Luke had guidance from Obi, "use the force"...Rey on the other hand, had no one to show her anything.

There's a big difference between what Luke did in this scene...barely being able to move the saber, and Ray doing mind tricks, and using the force to grab the lightsaber effortlessly from a long distance against Kylo Ren.

 

[jye4ever]

There was no payoff either. What was the point of him lying to her anyway? When he finally told her the truth, she was like,"Dude, I just met met you like an hour ago...it's ok, you don't have to leave."

Yup, that lying angle attempt at character building really went nowhere.

But the splosions were nice!

 

[Matt S]

If you guys and girls want more background for POE,FINN,REY,PHASMA and the resistance, i recommend reading the book: "Before the Awakening"

It's canon and short!

Thanks.....and you had me at short!

 

[Wor-Gar]

Some boys here have trouble accepting that a Jedi female is just so much more powerful than a Jedi male.

Maybe they just need a line like "The Force is crazy strong with this one" to clear up the whole thing.

 

[Khev]

Some boys here have trouble accepting that a Jedi female is just so much more powerful than a Jedi male.

Maybe they just need a line like "The Force is crazy strong with this one" to clear up the whole thing.

Some people don't like the Force to be mystical, unpredictable and hard to quantify. They want bar graphs and midichlorian readings and the characters' "stats" to be spelled out like laminated Dungeons & Dragons character sheets that they can hang on their wall and then cross reference with every action performed on screen.

 

[Victοr]

Some boys here have trouble accepting that a Jedi female is just so much more powerful than a Jedi male.

Maybe they just need a line like "The Force is crazy strong with this one" to clear up the whole thing.

It's not a gender thing. It's, what I call, the Bat-God case. He's a character with no obvious faults or shortcomings. He's a genius, a great fighter, knowledgable, etc, etc. Batman is a well-balanced character with justification for his feats. Bat-God is the spawn of writers who want to just get the story over with. That doesn't make Batman a bad character, but it creates some problems in storytelling.

With Rey, it's different. The problem isn't that she's better than Luke. It's that she's better a better Jedi than Luke, a better engineer/pilot than Han and a great fighter, all with little to no training, and all happening in one movie. Had it been a journey to her becoming a great, I wouldn't have had a problem. That would have been good character development. Seeing her go from semi-Force sensitive and a good pilot to great engineer from her time with the Falcon, it wouldn't have been a problem. But, as it stands, she just so happens to be brilliant at everything with no previous experience.

I get that it's a fantasy movie, but you need some sort of "realism" to sell the characters to the audience. You can't have her pick up the Falcon, fly it perfectly smoothly through a destroyed Star Destroyer, elude trained TIE Pilots and also be a brilliant engineer. Hell, if you wanted to go that route, you could have shown her read a book on engineering, or flying another ship before to make the transition from scavenger to bad-ass pilot more organic. The Jedi thing is also a cop-out IMO. No build-up or training, not even a scene of her discovering her abilities. No, she resists against Ren, a trained warrior, Mind Tricks a Stormtrooper, takes the saber from Ren and almost beats him. That's a far cry from Luke's or Anakin's feats when they were just starting out.

Some people don't like the Force to be mystical, unpredictable and hard to quantify. They want bar graphs and midichlorian readings and the characters' "stats" to be spelled out like laminated Dungeons & Dragons character sheets that they can hang on their wall and then cross reference with every action performed on screen.

Oh, I want the Force to be mystical. I'm just not a fan of zero to hero stories, but without the actual training parts. I mean, look at Iron Man. Tony's a brilliant engineer, but he's not a good pilot or a fighter. He spends the majority of the movie building his armours and training in order to use them. He creates the boots, tries to fly and ends up wrecking the garage. When he takes the Mark 2 for a test drive, he doesn't do that well. Would the movie had been as good if Tony was able to perfectly use his suits immediately after building them?

Rey essentially went from Mark 1 (a normal scavengers who is more than meets the eye) to Mark 5 (great pilot, engineer, fighter and super-duper Force Sensitive) in the span of a few scenes. No build-up, no previous instances that showed signs that she could be all of those things (minus the Force stuff, since we knew that already and there was the lightsaber scene).

Again, this not a gender issue. It's a character who shows promise being written as a female Bat-God. No, not Batman. Batman was a well-trained and smart man who was a control/prep freak. Bat-God has the answer to everything, knows everything, could solve world hunger in days and could beat Galactus by harnessing the ANti-Monitor's powers by using the Infinity Gauntlet which he'd steal from Krona using his awesome stealth techniques. I liked her, but all I'm saying is that she better have some training scenes in the next movie to justify all of her feats...

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Some boys here have trouble accepting that a Jedi female is just so much more powerful than a Jedi male.

Maybe they just need a line like "The Force is crazy strong with this one" to clear up the whole thing.

I find her lack of testicles disturbing.

Some people don't like the Force to be mystical, unpredictable and hard to quantify. They want bar graphs and midichlorian readings and the characters' "stats" to be spelled out like laminated Dungeons & Dragons character sheets that they can hang on their wall and then cross reference with every action performed on screen.

Nah, it's about consistency, and the force not being use when necessary to serve the plot, because something is poorly written. Unpredictability and lack of limits is just lazy writing, because if anything is possible and there are no limits, then the characters are just as capable as they need to be in any given situation, like a video game...or Superman.

 

[Khev]

‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Deserves Every Dollar | Variety

 

[Darkseed]

He taught him about the universe and the force and all that crap in the first film. The purpose of the the training in the Falcon was for Luke to learn to use his senses and not his eyes. By the end of the film, Luke had guidance from Obi, "use the force"...Rey on the other hand, had no one to show her anything.

There's a big difference between what Luke did in this scene...barely being able to move the saber, and Ray doing mind tricks, and using the force to grab the lightsaber effortlessly from a long distance against Kylo Ren.
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Where I tend to lose the Mary Sue arguement at least with the force. Luke and Rey received a very similar speech from Ben and Maz about the force. The difference being Luke got 2-3 minutes on a training ball on the Falcon. Based on a speech and training ball, he was able to use the force to blow up the Death Star then in the next film call a sabre to his hand. When did he learn that trick? To be clear I understand, Luke in 2-3 mins training makes his force powers make more sense then Rey's as we assume she has no training.

I can also make an arguement beyond the tree in Dagabah, Luke had no formal sabre combat training. I didn't see it but I'm"assume" it happened for him to spare with Vader in Bespin. Not only that....he had no additional training after Bespin so how did he get good enough to beat Vader in combat on the Death Star? I didn't see that happen either. Who did he spare with? The deleted scenes indicated he didn't forge a new sabre until hunting Jabba so his sabre skills magically grew from Bespin to Death Star without practice.

Point being I can look beyond / past omissions in one film I can in another. Allows me to enjoy both saga's versus nitpick them to death.

 

[jye4ever]

Some people don't like the Force to be mystical, unpredictable and hard to quantify. They want bar graphs and midichlorian readings and the characters' "stats" to be spelled out like laminated Dungeons & Dragons character sheets that they can hang on their wall and then cross reference with every action performed on screen.

This is crazy funny.

I find her lack of testicles disturbing.




Nah, it's about consistency, and the force not being use when necessary to serve the plot, because something is poorly written. Unpredictability and lack of limits is just lazy writing, because if anything is possible and there are no limits, then the characters are just as capable as they need to be in any given situation, like a video game...or Superman.

I get what you're saying, makes perfect sense.

But honestly her awakening was just that, her powers coming online.

I think her portrayed strength with the Force is being greatly exaggerated.

She didn't pull down a star destroyer from space.

 

[Khev]

This is crazy funny.

 

[jye4ever]

At a family christmas party right now, I just asked three 15 year old boys if they went to see TFA.

All 3 gave the same answer, not interested.

Then they went right back to their texting.

Yeah, my son won't be hanging out with them.