Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

And they never did quite get around to spelling out the Story of how Palpatine came to be both a Senator and a Sith Lord and what his relationship with Shmi Skywalker was. He pretty heavily inferred that he had manipulated the force to create Anakin and used Shmi as a vessel to carry the child - how did this come to be? If true, that would, in essence, make Palpatine Anakin's father and Luke and Leia's grandfather, so very much part of the Skywalker family history.

I think there are enough lose ends in place to tell a new chapter...

The book "Star Wars: Darth Plagueis" covers all that. It's EU, but it does a good job of explaining his origins and rise to power.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

You know, my mind keeps wandering back to that strange "force planet" that Lucas introduced in the Clone Wars - the episodes that focused around Anakin's destiny as the chosen one.

What episode/season is this?
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

If I ignore everything else about the PT the single biggest, fatal flaw - it's supposed to be the story of Anakin becoming Darth Vader and it's poorly executed.

Two actors play Anakin and neither of them bring any power to their performance.

First there's Jake Lloyd. He was in over his head. Look Gus Lewis in Batman Begins - solid performance by a young actor. It's also creepy later when Padme hooks up with Anakin because of how young he was in this film.

BUT - There was a chance to turn this all around in films two and three, and that also failed. An adult actor would play Vader, it was only a matter of decent casting, right?

I don't know how much is Lucas's fault and how much is Hayden Christensen's, but adult Anakin does not connect to Vader. There is no calculating nature, no maturity, no leadership ability. Vader is evil, Anakin is a brat. Vader wants power, Anakin has mommy issues. Vader is a tall, imposing figure. Anakin gets stilts tacked on.

There's not even the same manner of speach. Picture Christensen saying "The circle is now complete..." and the way it was almost Spakesperian when Jones said it.

I think a better character dynamic for TPM would have been to model Ben and Anakin after Luke and Han. Ben is the slightly niave boy scout and Anakin is a charismatic rogue who pushes the boundries of the Jedi code. But where Han found his inner hero Anakin becomes corrupt.

If we had wached Han become evil way back - that would have been difficult. That was what they should have been going for.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

??? Did not know about this? I'm intrigued!

They had to cut a little over 20 minutes out of the film to meet IMAX limitations at the time and supposedly all the awkward moments between Anakin and Padme were the first to go to make for a much more fast-paced, less cringe-inducing story.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

If I ignore everything else about the PT the single biggest, fatal flaw - it's supposed to be the story of Anakin becoming Darth Vader and it's poorly executed.

Two actors play Anakin and neither of them bring any power to their performance.

First there's Jake Lloyd. He was in over his head. Look Gus Lewis in Batman Begins - solid performance by a young actor. It's also creepy later when Padme hooks up with Anakin because of how young he was in this film.

BUT - There was a chance to turn this all around in films two and three, and that also failed. An adult actor would play Vader, it was only a matter of decent casting, right?

I don't know how much is Lucas's fault and how much is Hayden Christensen's, but adult Anakin does not connect to Vader. There is no calculating nature, no maturity, no leadership ability. Vader is evil, Anakin is a brat. Vader wants power, Anakin has mommy issues. Vader is a tall, imposing figure. Anakin gets stilts tacked on.

There's not even the same manner of speach. Picture Christensen saying "The circle is now complete..." and the way it was almost Spakesperian when Jones said it.

I think a better character dynamic for TPM would have been to model Ben and Anakin after Luke and Han. Ben is the slightly niave boy scout and Anakin is a charismatic rogue who pushes the boundries of the Jedi code. But where Han found his inner hero Anakin becomes corrupt.

If we had wached Han become evil way back - that would have been difficult. That was what they should have been going for.



I agree completely. It's also one of the reasons I'm such a fan of the Clone Wars TV series. EVERYTHING anakin was lacking in the live action performance is present in the Clone wars. He's not a brat, He's mildly brooding. He's calculating. He's careful, And he's Vengeful.

And it's a Much more believable character as a "Vader to be" than Hayden was.

Not to mention, he and Obiwan have that "han and Luke" feel you mentioned when they're together.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

What episode/season is this?

Season 3, it's a trilogy: "Overlords", "Altar of Mortis", "Ghosts of Mortis".

The world if Mortis is sort of like the cave on Dagohbah in ESB, except that both sides of the force are represented there in ethereal physical manifestations; the "light side" is the daughter, the "dark side" is the son, and the "balance" is the father. These episodes are extremely surreal, with a heavy amount of symbolism, mysticism, myth, and destiny all kinda blended together.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Rad. I am making my way through the seasons for the the first time so this definitely sounds like something to look forward too. Thanks.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I do hope that they have a good idea. Personally, I'm hoping they don't completely bulldoze the EU. A lot of fans have stuck with those stories for over 20 years and it would be nice if their loyalty paid off for them somehow.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I agree completely. It's also one of the reasons I'm such a fan of the Clone Wars TV series. EVERYTHING anakin was lacking in the live action performance is present in the Clone wars. He's not a brat, He's mildly brooding. He's calculating. He's careful, And he's Vengeful.

And it's a Much more believable character as a "Vader to be" than Hayden was.

Not to mention, he and Obiwan have that "han and Luke" feel you mentioned when they're together.

I was just going to write this very thing - couldn't agree more! Anakin is very smart and likeable in his dealings with Obi Wan and Ahsoka and he's adept as a General in commanding Rex. He's caring to a fault, and it's one of the tragic flaws that will lead to his eventual fall (very reminiscent of Luke rushing off to Bespin!). He's moody, and you see hints of the dark side stirring in him occasionally - when you do, you feel bad for him, but also strangely satisfied because it fits the overall saga so well. The Clone Wars series is not perfect, but more often than not, it succeeds where the PT failed...
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I have not watched much Clone Wars CG. Maybe someone could put together a grown up's guide to key episodes.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

If I ignore everything else about the PT the single biggest, fatal flaw - it's supposed to be the story of Anakin becoming Darth Vader and it's poorly executed.

Two actors play Anakin and neither of them bring any power to their performance.

First there's Jake Lloyd. He was in over his head. Look Gus Lewis in Batman Begins - solid performance by a young actor. It's also creepy later when Padme hooks up with Anakin because of how young he was in this film.

BUT - There was a chance to turn this all around in films two and three, and that also failed. An adult actor would play Vader, it was only a matter of decent casting, right?

I don't know how much is Lucas's fault and how much is Hayden Christensen's, but adult Anakin does not connect to Vader. There is no calculating nature, no maturity, no leadership ability. Vader is evil, Anakin is a brat. Vader wants power, Anakin has mommy issues. Vader is a tall, imposing figure. Anakin gets stilts tacked on.

There's not even the same manner of speach. Picture Christensen saying "The circle is now complete..." and the way it was almost Spakesperian when Jones said it.

I think a better character dynamic for TPM would have been to model Ben and Anakin after Luke and Han. Ben is the slightly niave boy scout and Anakin is a charismatic rogue who pushes the boundries of the Jedi code. But where Han found his inner hero Anakin becomes corrupt.

If we had wached Han become evil way back - that would have been difficult. That was what they should have been going for.

About the manner of speech - I actually got the impression Hayden was trying to sound more like Vader in ROTS, but it just came off horribly and more wooden than ever.

To be honest, this was always going to be a tough one. How do you make someone go from being clearly liked, and a ''good friend'' to the likes of Obi-Wan to someone who slaughters the jedi and stands by while entire planets are wiped from existance. How do you make that plausible? On a smaller point how do you explain why it is deemed a good idea for that person's child to be ''hidden'' not only on the evil father's home planet but with a family he knows. And they don't even so much as move house! He has been to their farm!

The PT was always going to be tough to pull off, but George Lucas sure as hell was not the man to do it.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

The PT's explaination of WHY Anakin turns evil was perfect to me. He did not agree with the way the system worked and saw too many people suffering and slipping through the cracks. He grew up in the Outer Rim and wanted to change the world. The Republic couldn't do it with the Senate. He wanted to do it himself. However, with Palpatine pulling the strings and orchestrating the Clone Wars, obviously he lost sight of those goals and aligned himself with the Empire. The Empire is regaining all those planets that were lost and controlling them to be good. He doesn't see it as being evil. He sees the "Dark Side" as a tool to be embraced for good.

But the way it was written was not great. Kamandi said it best above that it wasn't fully developed.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Season 3, it's a trilogy: "Overlords", "Altar of Mortis", "Ghosts of Mortis".

The world if Mortis is sort of like the cave on Dagohbah in ESB, except that both sides of the force are represented there in ethereal physical manifestations; the "light side" is the daughter, the "dark side" is the son, and the "balance" is the father. These episodes are extremely surreal, with a heavy amount of symbolism, mysticism, myth, and destiny all kinda blended together.

One of my favorite story arcs of the series.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I remember the Mortis arc. I remember feeling that finally something important was happening that gave crucial information about this "Chosen One" prophecy that everyone talks about for three prequel movies but *nobody explains.* :slap
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

So, Lucasfilm has indefinitely postponed the 3D releases of AoTC & ROTS to focus on EP 7. This is great news! :clap

Man, SW might really be digging itself up out of the **** hole for real.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

About the manner of speech - I actually got the impression Hayden was trying to sound more like Vader in ROTS, but it just came off horribly and more wooden than ever.

Vader's voice always suggested to me he was well educated and came up from privilege. He carries the air of someone who grew up expecting to have power. The best school, best military academy, best jedi teacher... he has no stomach for politics, buracracy or diplomacy but he understands very well how they work. It is only after learning of such things he decided the fist works better.

PT Anakin is dirt poor and unschooled. Other than being good with tools he knows nothing beyond what the Jedi have indoctrinated. He's not well spoken and has no background that would foster an ambition to rule.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Vader's voice always suggested to me he was well educated and came up from privilege. He carries the air of someone who grew up expecting to have power. The best school, best military academy, best jedi teacher... he has no stomach for politics, buracracy or diplomacy but he understands very well how they work. It is only after learning of such things he decided the fist works better.

PT Anakin is dirt poor and unschooled. Other than being good with tools he knows nothing beyond what the Jedi have indoctrinated. He's not well spoken and has no background that would foster an ambition to rule.

I wish you were Rick McCallum... :monkey2
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

The PT's explaination of WHY Anakin turns evil was perfect to me. He did not agree with the way the system worked and saw too many people suffering and slipping through the cracks. He grew up in the Outer Rim and wanted to change the world. The Republic couldn't do it with the Senate. He wanted to do it himself. However, with Palpatine pulling the strings and orchestrating the Clone Wars, obviously he lost sight of those goals and aligned himself with the Empire. The Empire is regaining all those planets that were lost and controlling them to be good. He doesn't see it as being evil. He sees the "Dark Side" as a tool to be embraced for good.

But the way it was written was not great. Kamandi said it best above that it wasn't fully developed.

Made perfect sense to me as well... TPM and AOTC were very clear about how Anakin feared losing his loved ones, how idealistic he was and how proud of his own powers he was.
Let's review it for a moment.
- He grows up a slave in a distant and corrupt corner of the galaxy.
- Despite that, from early on he's pretty full of himself (being the only human to be able to participate in pod-races).
- He is overly emotional and has an overriding sense of helping others in need (how he is selfless about helping Qui Gonn, and again in ROTS, he would rather endanger the mission to save clones than to let them die).
- He suffers greatly at the thought of losing the ones he loves (letting go of his mother and then not knowing whether he will see Padme again).
- He begins training too old and never gets to master his feelings.
- He becomes impetuous and his belief in his own abilities grows more and more.
- His worst fears become real and he goes back just to find his mother on the brink of death and cannot save her.
- The Jedi order is at odds with his emotional nature.
- The one person who gives him solace is forbidden to him (Padme), yet he cannot go against his emotions and gives in to a relationship that is forbidden, which puts him even more at odds with the Order.
- Despite his lack of training he rises quickly through the Jedi ranks and is burdened with ever more difficult missions that tax his already frayed emotional state.
- He is brain-washed and manipulated by Palpatine, who plays to his weaknesses, his ego and arrogance.
- He remains fiercely loyal to his friends and loved ones, but finally his emotions betray him and he gives in to Palpatine, who promises power to save his loved one and to bring order to a suffering galaxy torn by war.

It has its weaknesses in writing, directing and acting, for sure, but as an arc and as a story it makes sense to me.
I think the problem is that there are too many things happening at once, so that Lucas didn't focus enough on Anakin.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

They had to cut a little over 20 minutes out of the film to meet IMAX limitations at the time and supposedly all the awkward moments between Anakin and Padme were the first to go to make for a much more fast-paced, less cringe-inducing story.

I knew about the under 120 minutes aspect, but I just now realized I guess I don't know how some IMAX versions work.

When a theater showed TDKR, Tron, or another movie that mixes IMAX and standard format, are there two separate projectors?

I assume some of the answer lies in the "IMAX" vs "LieMAX" difference, which is something admittedly I only sort of understand.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Vader's voice always suggested to me he was well educated and came up from privilege. He carries the air of someone who grew up expecting to have power. The best school, best military academy, best jedi teacher... he has no stomach for politics, buracracy or diplomacy but he understands very well how they work. It is only after learning of such things he decided the fist works better.

PT Anakin is dirt poor and unschooled. Other than being good with tools he knows nothing beyond what the Jedi have indoctrinated. He's not well spoken and has no background that would foster an ambition to rule.

Not sure if I agree with this.
Yes, Anakin was more or less born into slavery, but after he took off with Qui Gonn and Kenobi, he was at the best school, he had the best military academy, the best Jedi teachers...
And he quite clearly states that he has no stomach for politics, bureaucracy or politics in AOTC. He grows up surrounded by the politics of the Jedi Council and the Chancellor. I think he knows very well how they work, and he does state that he doesn't believe in how they work and decides that a one-man rule is the way to go.
And his overriding ambition is his hunger for power, power to protect the ones he loves. In the end, that means absolute power, and once he gives in to the dark side, it consumes him.
 
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