Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[slikkerias]

I won't post the link but I just saw a video where someone called out the utter stupidity of the Resistance heading to Crait but jumping out of hyperspace so far from the planet that not one but *two* of their capital ships ran out of fuel before they could arrive?? Holy crap I never thought of that, lol. So if the FO never showed up they still would have abandoned two ships on their way to the planet? RJ really did make the FO and Resistance utterly idiotic in this film.

Compare that to the Empire dispersing bombers and bounty hunters to track the Falcon in ESB which led to them being able to anticipate (thanks to Fett) where Han was going and beat him to his destination.

Well, they weren’t supposed to go to Crait as far as I remember...

 

[Khev]

Well, they weren’t supposed to go to Crait as far as I remember...

They were actually. Right before the FO shows up Finn asks Leia "what's the plan" and Leia and big nosed lady say they need a new base with a powerful enough signal to call their allies.

 

[jal76]

Well, they weren’t supposed to go to Crait as far as I remember...

You are correct...Crait was not the plan but was like a Plan B working with what they had...

 

[slikkerias]

You are correct...Crait was not the plan but was like a Plan B working with what they had...

Yes that’s what I thought. Making the argument invalid.

 

[Khev]

You are correct...Crait was not the plan but was like a Plan B working with what they had...

Nope. Watch the film my friend. They mention the base on Crait before the FO ever arrives and then proceed toward it with sublight engines until most of their fleet simply runs out of gas.

You don't deliberately jump to a system that has the exact destination you're looking for if it's "Plan B."

 

[slikkerias]

Nope. Watch the film my friend. They mention the base on Crait before the FO ever arrives and then proceed toward it with sublight engines until most of their fleet simply runs out of gas.

You don't deliberately jump to a system that has the exact destination you're looking for if it's "Plan B."

I need to watch it again and see. But if you’re right, it’s unbelievable! Must be the first thing EVER in the history of SW that doesn’t make total sense!

 

[Khev]

I agree that sound military strategy isn't always a strong suit in the Saga. However the tactics of the Resistance and especially FO in TLJ stretch even what a forgiving fan like me is willing to accept.

Hopefully Abrams will make everything right with Death Star 4, lol.

 

[YoNoSe]

I wouldn’t over-criticize the FO. As you yourself pointed out, Khev, they did a commendable job distracting the Resistance with Fluke Skywalker. Would have worked too if it wasn’t for that pesky kid...

 

[YoNoSe]

They were actually. Right before the FO shows up Finn asks Leia "what's the plan" and Leia and big nosed lady say they need a new base with a powerful enough signal to call their allies.

Is Poe in this scene? If so it validates Laura Dern's character even more. She shows up presumably thinking Poe Dameron is Leia's most trusted agent, a savvy pilot and born leader. Within the last couple of hours he got most of his peers killed on a whim and keeps asking her what the plan is when she's literally executing the plan she inherited from his boss.

 

[Khev]

I wouldn’t over-criticize the FO. As you yourself pointed out, Khev, they did a commendable job distracting the Resistance with Fluke Skywalker. Would have worked too if it wasn’t for that pesky kid...

Is Poe in this scene? If so it validates Laura Dern's character even more. She shows up presumably thinking Poe Dameron is Leia's most trusted agent, a savvy pilot and born leader. Within the last couple of hours he got most of his peers killed on a whim and keeps asking her what the plan is when she's literally executing the plan she inherited from his boss.

Holy crap he totally is. They're all on the bridge and Leia tells Finn they are heading to a base to send a call for help and then the FO shows up and Poe requests "permission to jump in an X-Wing and blow something up." He was there the whole freaking time but still staged a mutiny before blabbing the escape plan into an open mic.

 

[YoNoSe]

Wow.
They could very plausibly make a case in Ep 9 that Poe in TLJ was an imposter agent placed to wreak havoc. He has almost nothing in common with the guy from TFA.

#NotMyLuke
#NotMyPoe

Who's next?

 

[Khev]

Abrams really established Poe as a likable guy right from the get go in TFA with him taking on the FO Stormtroopers on Jakku by himself and then humorously mocking Kylo Ren. I actually didn't mind him taunting Hux at the beginning of TLJ but then pretty much everything he did post-Dreadnaught was utterly despicable. He recovered a little bit at the end Crait battle but Abrams has his work cut out for him to fully redeem him now.

I dread more Rose and Finn though. Hopefully Lando totally upstages them and they fade into the background (or better yet die in the opening battle immediately proceeding the crawl.)

 

[YoNoSe]

They need to put Rose on desk duty in scene 1 for the resistance to even stand a chance.

 

[Khev]

Remember in Armageddon when Steve Buscemi went nuts and started firing rockets off at random and then the next scene they cut to him tied to a chair? Episode IX needs to open with Rose tied up in a similar manner where she remains the entire film, lol.

 

[YoNoSe]

She can sit right next to Representative Binks.

 

[Khev]

Lol. I think I've come the realization that for me to fully enjoy TLJ I need to keep it as a bit of "arm's length canon." Basically it's canon on certain days and other days it isn't. It makes it easier for an OCD fan like myself to not sweat the small (and big) stuff in that movie as much.

I still enjoy the paralled post-OT canon (Lucas approved no less) of the "Dark Empire" comic series and even in spite of new live-action films it's hard to just dismiss something that was the official continuation of the Saga for so many years. In fact just this week I picked up this awesome Matt Busch "movie poster" style print of DE off ebay:

It would have been awesome to see that story play out in live-action in the mid to late 80's when the actors were still in their prime.

 

[YoNoSe]

I really do want to enjoy JJ's finale so I'm feeling sort of the same. I think of TLJ in a vague way...some things happened between 7 & 9, best not to dwell on the details. Some ships ran out of gas, characters did really stupid things, there was a horse race, Luke died. Anyway...


And who are we kidding - "head canon" is the truest canon at this point. The various management have approved and un-approved such a variety of content that SW is the ultimate choose-your-own adventure franchise. I love Dark Forces and Rogue One...I don't care who paid what for which copyrights.

 

[Khev]

I really do want to enjoy JJ's finale so I'm feeling sort of the same. I think of TLJ in a vague way...some things happened between 7 & 9, best not to dwell on the details. Some ships ran out of gas, characters did really stupid things, there was a horse race, Luke died. Anyway...

And who are we kidding - "head canon" is the truest canon at this point. The various management have approved and un-approved such a variety of content that SW is the ultimate choose-your-own adventure franchise. I love Dark Forces and Rogue One...I don't care who paid what for which copyrights.

Yeah, the parallel canons aren't much different than live-action superhero reboots at this point. In SW they all just stem from the same OT instead of starting from scratch. Does Joker kill Batman's parents or Joe Chill? Does Spidey fight the Green Goblin after being bit by the radioactive spider or The Lizard? Eh, depends on what flick you happen to be watching at the time.

Disney can rebadge certain stories all they want, it doesn't change the fact that those previous narratives still exist and are just as valid as any other publication, in or out of print.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I can't believe this recent string of posts criticizing TLJ got started based on . . .

I won't post the link but I just saw a video where someone called out the utter stupidity of the Resistance heading to Crait but jumping out of hyperspace so far from the planet that not one but *two* of their capital ships ran out of fuel before they could arrive?? Holy crap I never thought of that, lol. So if the FO never showed up they still would have abandoned two ships on their way to the planet? RJ really did make the FO and Resistance utterly idiotic in this film.

Compare that to the Empire dispersing bombers and bounty hunters to track the Falcon in ESB which led to them being able to anticipate (thanks to Fett) where Han was going and beat him to his destination.

. . . yet another ******* internet video. Can we please start recognizing that the vast majority of these videos are created and narrated by idiots? Please!? It would save a lot of time in this thread.

Well, they weren’t supposed to go to Crait as far as I remember...

Correct.

You are correct...Crait was not the plan but was like a Plan B working with what they had...

Correct.

The Resistance had made a quick hyperspace calculation to a rendezvous point. Crait was NOT that rendezvous point. It happened to be the closest old Rebel base nearby.

But, since I don't have my own YouTube videos, I know that my word isn't going to be convincing enough. So, here's two photos from the TLJ novelization. I have spotlighted the relevant parts to this discussion to make it easier.





Leia's dialogue at the end there is exactly how she phrases it in the movie: to find a new base.

Any other poorly-founded criticism from some YouTube genius I can address now? Or, should I just wait until the next inevitable one gets posted where bad assumptions are made and actual movie context is distorted?

 

[Khev]

Any other poorly-founded criticism from some YouTube genius I can address now? Or, should I just wait until the next inevitable one gets posted where bad assumptions are made and actual movie context is distorted?

I don't think the film itself backs you this time ajp. The events and dialogue on-screen show the Resistance jumping into what would be revealed as the Crait System. Then Leia tells Finn that their plan is to find a new base with the means of broadcasting a signal throughout the galaxy. A base that is right there in the very system they jumped into.

The novel may indeed try to handwave away the ridiculousness of coming out of hyperspace too far from the planet to actually get there with their available fuel but such context isn't actually supported by the film itself. You really want to believe that Leia ordered everyone to rendezvous next to a perfectly good rebel base *that they are searching for* only to then preferably pick another base to jump to before being forced to go to the one right outside their window by the arrival of the FO? I suppose the novel gives that "out" but that's still a level of absurdity that I find to be pretty laughable. Absurdity on Leia's part, not yours.