Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[noisetrigger]

Um, when you upset half your fanbase it is.

It made money, but broke the machine going forward.

Half your fanbase? Do you have any statistics to back that claim?

Cause statically, TLJ is still the second highest grossing SW movie so far. Looks like that so called upset 50% fanbase barely made a dent.

One thing about being part of the SW fandom is that I realized we tend to overstate our own importance to the fandom when in reality we are really just a speck of dust.

This forum is a prime example of that.

Quote me on it. Episode IX will make more money than TLJ.

 

[Khev]

Half your fanbase? Do you have any statistics to back that claim?

Cause statically, TLJ is still the second highest grossing SW movie so far. Looks like that so called upset 50% fanbase barely made a dent.

One thing about being part of the SW fandom is that I realized we tend to overstate our own importance to the fandom when in reality we are really just a speck of dust.

This forum is a prime example of that.

Quote me on it. Episode IX will make more money than TLJ.

I think a LOT is hinging on IX's first teaser. I remember thinking the PT was a joke after the one-two punch of TPM/AOTC but then that first ROTS teaser with yellow eyed Anakin turning toward the screen instantly had me going "daaamn" and immediately brought all my excitement for SW right back.

 

[spindrift]

There is SW fatigue in my opinion- Solo was way too close in release to TLJ. Should have been Christmas. People have lost the "event" feeling of a new SW film. Disney got too greedy and I think are drawing back now realizing this. JJ will make a good film but even so the ticket sales will be down.

 

[DiFabio]

This forum is a prime example of that.

This forum has 4 or 5 guys that have the same Star Wars discussions with themselves over and over and over again. They even make all the same topics too.

Most of the quality posters that had some personality and contributed with actual cleverness and humor are long gone.

 

[noisetrigger]

I think a LOT is hinging on IX's first teaser. I remember thinking the PT was a joke after the one-two punch of TPM/AOTC but then that first ROTS teaser with yellow eyed Anakin turning toward the screen instantly had me going "daaamn" and immediately brought all my excitement for SW right back.

ROTS also made more money than AOTC despite AOTC being super derided and generally considered the worse SW made back then.

 

[Khev]

I think part of the reason that SW suffers from a lack of excitement over multiple films in one year is that they don't build sequentially off of each other like the MCU. I fully admit that a big part of my excitement for Captain Marvel is seeing hints of how IW2 might play out via breadcrumbs planted in the actual movie or a flashforward in an after credits scene.

Much different than watching Han Solo die on screen and then going back to watch a 100% self-contained story about his early life that doesn't provide any build up to the next film whatsoever. I'm not saying that Solo didn't justify it's own existence because it did IMO but I'm not surprised that casual fans struggled to get excited for it knowing that it had such peripheral context with everything else.

 

[noisetrigger]

This forum has 4 or 5 guys that have the same Star Wars discussions with themselves over and over and over again. They even make all the topics too.

Most of the quality posters that had some personality and contributed with actual cleverness and humor are long gone.

That is what happens when a select few decided that their hatred of TLJ is the right opinion and anyone who doesn’t share that view is just an SJW soulless being who likes to suck on KK, RJ and Nazi Mickey ****.

 

[noisetrigger]

I think part of the reason that SW suffers from a lack of excitement over multiple films in one year is that they don't build sequentially off of each other like the MCU. I fully admit that a big part of my excitement for Captain Marvel is seeing hints of how IW2 might play out via breadcrumbs planted in the actual movie or a flashforward in an after credits scene.

Much different than watching Han Solo die on screen and then going back to watch a 100% self-contained story about his early life that doesn't provide any build up to the next film whatsoever. I'm not saying that Solo didn't justify it's own existence because it did IMO but I'm not surprised that casual fans struggled to get excited for it knowing that it had such peripheral context with everything else.

You hit the nail on the head which is why I am sure IX will make more money than TLJ. People will just wanna find out how the trilogy concludes even if they hate it with all their passion. They are already invested the moment they watched TFA.

 

[Khev]

You hit the nail on the head which is why I am sure IX will make more money than TLJ. People will just wanna find out how the trilogy concludes even if they hate it with all their passion. They are already invested the moment they watched TFA.

Not just concluding the Sequel Trilogy but also the entire 9 film Saga if LFL is to be believed so I can definitely see audiences showing up in droves.

 

[noisetrigger]

Not just concluding the Sequel Trilogy but also the entire 9 film Saga if LFL is to be believed. You better believe audiences will show up in droves, lol.

Indeed. You are already 8 movies in so what’s one more?

I also remember so many here that swear they will never watch Solo ended up watching it anyway and it seems most of them enjoy Solo more than TLJ.

 

[ShadowX81]

Half your fanbase? Do you have any statistics to back that claim?

Cause statically, TLJ is still the second highest grossing SW movie so far. Looks like that so called upset 50% fanbase barely made a dent.

Sequel's performance are usually more of a reflection of the movie that came before it rather than the movie itself. TLJ was a decades long awaited sequel movie to a film franchise that is a cultural institution so prominent that its almost a modern day religion. It would have made money no matter what they did.

Honestly I think that while episode IX is going to be a huge crossroads for the future of the franchise, im not too optimistic. We are now in the last act of the trilogy and main characters are still meeting each other. We have no idea what their dynamic is like as a team because we have had zero chance to see them have adventures together.

And even as individuals their reception has been mixed at best. "Rey is a Mary Sue" has been a never ending complaint since day 1, ive never seen anyone react with anything more than "meh" towards Finn, Poe is awesome but he's underdeveloped and never been given anything entertaining to do, and the less said about Rose the better.

I am not convinced that "the final epic conclusion to characters you still don't really care about" is going to be enough to get people to rush to the theatre in droves.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Half your fanbase? Do you have any statistics to back that claim?

Cause statically, TLJ is still the second highest grossing SW movie so far. Looks like that so called upset 50% fanbase barely made a dent.

One thing about being part of the SW fandom is that I realized we tend to overstate our own importance to the fandom when in reality we are really just a speck of dust.

This forum is a prime example of that.

Quote me on it. Episode IX will make more money than TLJ.

Nice to be able to read some actual common sense. Thanks for posting your perspective on this stuff; been fun to read.

Following some of the disgruntled fan logic can be dizzying. First, they say TLJ only made money at the BO because people wanted to see the follow-up to TFA. But then everyone supposedly hated what they saw in the theaters. Yet TLJ goes on to sell more blu-ray copies than any other movie last year. I think the excuse for that is still a work in progress. Maybe the claim will be that many of the people who hated it needed to spend money buying the disc so that they could literally take a dump on it.

Meanwhile, Solo has a crappy BO, so everyone rushes to say, "See, I toldya TLJ killed Star Wars!" Completely ignoring the fact that while general audiences were yawning at Solo in theaters, they were buying up copies of TLJ - before going back to yawning at Solo when it came out on home video.

Now Episode IX is where it'll get really amusing. Many have sworn off the ST (boycotts and all), and declared Solo was only a sign of things to come. If the box office numbers come out really strong for Ep9, and prove that Solo's performance had nothing to do with TLJ, I can promise you right now that the narrative will first be: "It's just the diehards; it won't last." Then if there's continued success at the BO, the excuse will evolve into: "JJ rescued it from what Rian Johnson had done." Bank on it.

Honestly I think that while episode IX is going to be a huge crossroads for the future of the franchise, im not too optimistic.

I actually agree with this, but for totally different reasons. After the Skywalker Saga is over, I just don't see enough people caring enough about the franchise moving forward to keep it anywhere near as strong. If LFL/Disney thinks that stories without any connection to Luke, Vader, and the other OT elements can maintain the same appeal, I think they're in for a rude awakening.

I can see McGregor Kenobi movie(s) doing very well. I can also see something like a Sebastian Stan Luke series set between ROTJ and TFA doing really well. And a Vader movie/series between ROTS and ANH would always have appeal. But new stuff not tied into the OT at all? I don't think so. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[xipotec]

Yes and what do you do with those now?



Good.

I dance around them naked smeared in peanut butter hoping our female overlords will finally take over and enslave us.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Prime Clone]

Cause statically, TLJ is still the second highest grossing SW movie so far. Looks like that so called upset 50% fanbase barely made a dent.

But as stated earlier, it could have come much closer to TFA. As the backlash gathered steam there was a massive drop-off and much discussion on here about money being left on the table.

Love or hate TLJ, it's refreshing to see LFL willing to take risks. RJ appears to have been given free rein, unlike CT or Lord/Miller. Might have been his promise of a new trilogy concept (which could be Lightsaber Knobs and Broomsticks).

 

[ajp4mgs]

But as stated earlier, it could have come much closer to TFA. As the backlash gathered steam there was a massive drop-off and much discussion on here about money being left on the table.

I think you're overestimating the amount that was left on the table. Just use previous SW trilogies for context.

Here are the breakdowns for the total domestic/USA box office of the first two movies in each of the trilogies (first runs).

ANH: $307 million
ESB: $209 million
Drop = 32%

TPM: $431 million
AOTC: $302 million
Drop = 30%

TFA: $937 million
TLJ: $620 million
Drop = 34%

So, the difference in dropoff for TLJ was no more than between 2% and 4% of its predecessors. So what?

 

[loki2371]

TLJ only made money at the BO because people wanted to see the follow-up to TFA. But then everyone supposedly hated what they saw in the theaters. Yet TLJ goes on to sell more blu-ray copies than any other movie last year. I think the excuse for that is still a work in progress. Maybe the claim will be that many of the people who hated it needed to spend money buying the disc so that they could literally take

Seriously? Didn't we cover that enough yesterday??

TLJ sold 2,540,3047 copies LESS than TFA over the same approximate 9 month period (minus a 1 week difference). That equates to 45% LESS. Nearly 1/2 the people that bought TFA on BluRay DID NOT buy TLJ on Bluray.

Anyway, you TLJ defenders/lovers like to bond just as the TLJ naysayers/haters like to bond...

A fandom divided indeed.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Seriously? Didn't we cover that enough yesterday??

TLJ sold 2,540,3047 copies LESS than TFA over the same approximate 9 month period (minus a 1 week difference). That equates to 45% LESS. Nearly 1/2 the people that bought TFA on BluRay DID NOT buy TLJ on Bluray.

Anyway, you TLJ defenders/lovers like to bond just as the TLJ naysayers/haters like to bond...

A fandom divided indeed.

Yeah, and TLJ made a lot less than TFA at the box office. TFA was a phenomenal success that was never going to be matched. I thought we went over this yesterday?? So, what's your point?

Maybe you should reference my post above to see how SW sequels drop off. That would extend to home video.

 

[loki2371]

Yeah, and TLJ made a lot less than TFA at the box office. TFA was a phenomenal success that was never going to be matched. I thought we went over this yesterday?? So, what's your point?

Maybe you should reference my post above to see how SW sequels drop off. That would extend to home video.

My point is, what hurt TLJ was the repeat viewings. After people saw it and were unhappy with it. Fans who like something a lot usually go back for multiple viewings. They didn't go back to see it a 2nd or 3rd time. Then, they also didn't buy it on home video either.

SO while BO dropped 34%, home BluRay sales dropped 45%. Your results are biased by nearly an additional 12% in the diff between BO drop and BluRay drop.

I watched TFA in the theater 2x & RO 3x. I bought both on BluRay day of release. I saw TLJ once. Didn't buy on BluRay. And I won't buy it on BluRay until/if I watch EPIX, like it, then feel the need to buy TLJ so I don't have a missing chapter. But I won't buy it either for more than like $10.

I kinda liked Solo. Watched it once many weeks after released, just before it left the theaters, cause my son decided he wanted to see it. But still haven't bought it on BluRay. Waiting for $10 or less. It's also on Netflix, and I still haven't felt like watching it again.

 

[ajp4mgs]

My point is, what hurt TLJ was the repeat viewings. After people saw it and were unhappy with it. Fans who like something a lot usually go back for multiple viewings. They didn't go back to see it a 2nd or 3rd time. Then, they also didn't buy it on home video either.

SO while BO dropped 34%, home BluRay sales dropped 45%. Your results are biased by nearly an additional 12% in the diff between BO drop and BluRay drop.

I watched TFA in the theater 2x & RO 3x. I bought both on BluRay day of release. I saw TLJ once. Didn't buy on BluRay. And I won't buy it on BluRay until/if I watch EPIX, like it, then feel the need to buy TLJ so I don't have a missing chapter. But I won't buy it either for more than like $10.

I kinda liked Solo. Watched it once many weeks after released, just before it left the theaters, cause my son decided he wanted to see it. But still haven't bought it on BluRay. Waiting for $10 or less. It's also on Netflix, and I still haven't felt like watching it again.

So, you think TLJ made $620 million domestic without a lot of repeat viewings? And you think that being the top-selling blu-ray for the entire year shows that nobody bought it on home video? How does that logic work exactly?

You would agree that IW was a phenomenal success, right? And that it had TONS of repeat viewings, right? Well, about 98% of its domestic box office was in after the 8th week (compared to about 99% for TLJ's 8-week). Here's how the dropoffs (reflecting those repeat viewings) compare for the movies:



You'll notice that even though more people saw IW in Week 1, TLJ actually outperformed it in Week 2 and Week 3. IW did have stronger legs after that, but I think it's foolish to pretend that TLJ didn't keep a relatively similar rate of repeat viewings. You make it seem like TLJ was a disaster relative to other successful movies. That's just not true.

 

[ironwez20]

I swear TLJ must of changed AJP’s life. No way we watched the same movie. What I saw was a pretty movie but a soulless story that divided the fanbase heavily. If you don’t think the fanbase is divided by this movie you are lying to yourself.

Force awakens and TLJ had teasers by now. Cause they knew they could get butts in seats with the name alone. Now they can’t cause the brand has been damaged. Can they win trust again? Maybe? Will Episode 9 be different? Maybe but let’s not pretend this movie did t damage the brand. Not even the prequels hurt the franchise like this film did