Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[Darth Skywalker]

Imagine that super duper extra massive deluxe star destroyer in TLJ staring down Luke’s beat up old X-wing. He’s just hovering there quietly after popping out of light speed. They scan it and the old records tell them who that ship belongs to: the guy who blew up the death star and took down the frickin’ Empire. Jedi Grand Master Luke friggin’ SKYWALKER.

Then Luke glides into that perfect glistening kajillion credit $$$ hanger in his old P.O.S., hops out and strolls right into Snoke’s throne room while all the First Order just stares, speechless. Kind of like him strolling into Jabba’s palace times a billion.

 

[Darth Skywalker]

I'm still hoping that they go that route for IX. Not only did Luke erase Rey's memory of being trained but also his own memory of training her (a viable tactic after he almost lost everything when a Sith read his own thoughts of Leia way back in ROTJ.) His own memory loss caused him to be a bit kooky but as a ghost they can say that his mind is fully restored.

Ah, they can’t. SPOILER ALERT: they killed Luke. A bunch of exposition and backpeddling while he’s a ghost would be ridiculous.

I wanted him to go into exile until he was needed as a last resort. That’s why he left a FRICKIN MAP in R2, just in case, that only Rey could unlock, when the Force decided it was time. He hid Rey in the middle of nowhere to protect her from Kylo when he went crazy and destroyed the Jedi students.

It’s the same story as Luke being hidden by Ben, until the time was right and the threat was too much. Same story, yeah, but it’s the right story to tell. It’s real life; responsiblities being passed down to the next generation.

 

[Khev]

As has been stated many times over, Luke never "left a map in R2." That was never remotely hinted at on screen and Abrams himself said that R2 got the map fragment from the original Death Star when he jacked in to find Leia's cell. Luke never even knew he had it. He had no intention of being found.

 

[Darth Skywalker]

Oh, never heard that.

So R2 had the map itself, but the map still had an “X marks the spot” where Luke was located, right?

Then who put the X there?

 

[Khev]

Oh, never heard that.

So R2 had the map itself, but the map still had an “X marks the spot” where Luke was located, right?

Then who put the X there?

It was a map to the Jedi Temple, not Luke himself. Leia just assumed that that's where he went (based on Han's speech in TFA) so she was trying to track down directions that would lead her there.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'm sure they asked that librarian lady, who likely said if it isn't there it must not exist.

Wonder how you delete a location from existence on a space map? Like, if I wanted to hide my house, where do I go to remove the area around my house from all google maps and all electronic and/or hard maps ever made? Does the Star Wars universe have only one central mapping system for everything?

#174 bad Star Wars idea by Disney

 

[loki2371]

It was a map to the Jedi Temple, not Luke himself. Leia just assumed that that's where he went (based on Han's speech in TFA) so she was trying to track down directions that would lead her there.

The map debate again?? ...

All I remember is everyone in the movie saying where's the map to Luke Skywalker. Poe, Finn, Rey, Han, Leia and whoever else may have mentioned it. Not saying we're looking for the map to the place we think Luke might be?

I honestly don't really remember. If I cared enough, I'd want to go back and watch TFA again and listen better. That's how bad a story this is. Major plot points are confusing and possibly perceived wrong by so many fans. Not very good storytelling. No real drama or build up to some long awaited conclusion... TLJ stomped on any mysteries we yearned to learn more about from TFA. Why there should've been an outline. Disney made a mess.

No one was confused as to what was going on in the OT or PT. No debates going on in those movies that I ever remember. Not even with dumb trade route disputes or whatever it was in TPM.

Damn you both JJ & RJ!! What'd you do to SW!!! Just good vs bad. That's all we needed.

I want a do over.

 

[Wor-Gar]

If the Jedi Temple was an uncharted place, how did Jedis ever get there? Was the one guy on the island the keeper of the directions? Did no one ever write it down or tell a droid to take me there? I know the Jedi are gone but wouldn't one of their ships have the navigation coordinates? Wouldn't many ships over the years? Isn't this place centuries old?

 

[Darth Skywalker]

It was a map to Luke’s location, regardless of what anyone said after the movie’s release.

Everyone in the movie said the same thing. Map to Luke.

 

[Khev]

No one was confused as to what was going on in the OT or PT.

People were absolutely confused by the PT. What were the circumstances surrounding Anakin's conception? Qui Gon implied that the Force simply willed it, Palpatine implied that it was a Sith, possibly even himself. Who the hell was Jedi Syfo-Dias, why did he order a Clone Army, how was Palpatine involved. What exactly does "bring balance to the Force" even mean? The PT never said.

Totally non-sensical holes that George left in his own narrative.

However I do think that the ST might be even worse in that regard. It's quite ridiculous that after ROTJ's victory neither TFA nor TLJ have explained just how the hell the FO "rose from the ashes of the Empire," why Ben Solo went to the Dark Side, or why Rey can do what she does. I'm okay turning a blind eye to a lot of things when it comes to Star Wars but I definitely can't defend the ST's half-baked narrative. If that's a deal breaker for anyone then I totally get why they'd be put off by these new films. Luckily I've been having great fun with these flicks despite their shortcomings.

Even with no opening scroll or text whatsoever RO was crystal clear as to where it fit in with the rest of the Saga and why things were happening the way they were happening. There really is no excuse with regard to TFA and TLJ IMO.

 

[a-dev]

However I do think that the ST might be even worse in that regard. It's quite ridiculous that after ROTJ's victory neither TFA nor TLJ have explained just how the hell the FO "rose from the ashes of the Empire," why Ben Solo went to the Dark Side, or why Rey can do what she does. I'm okay turning a blind eye to a lot of things when it comes to Star Wars but I definitely can't defend the ST's half-baked narrative. If that's a deal breaker for anyone then I totally get why they'd be put by these new films.

I'm telling you, it was ****ing Marty McFly buying that Sports Almanac. It wrecked everything.

 

[Khev]

I'm telling you, it was ****ing Marty McFly buying that Sports Almanac. It wrecked everything.

I know right, Snoke found the Almanac and just randomly inserted himself into the SW Galaxy as Supreme Leader, lol.

 

[Prime Clone]

He hid Rey in the middle of nowhere to protect her from Kylo when he went crazy and destroyed the Jedi students.

It’s the same story as Luke being hidden by Ben, until the time was right and the threat was too much. Same story, yeah, but it’s the right story to tell.

Weird, never occurred to me it was Luke who dropped her there, but that would make perfect sense. Also would mean she was reunited with her "family" after all (from a certain point of view).

(Only hitch is, that's not an X-wing we see leaving Jakku)

 

[xipotec]

It was a map to the Jedi Temple, not Luke himself. Leia just assumed that that's where he went (based on Han's speech in TFA) so she was trying to track down directions that would lead her there.

How do people not know this......its said about as clearly as can be.

The only reason anyone says its the map to Luke is thats the last place people think he went.

I mean, read the script, put on the captions if you need to, but pick a valid complaint.

The “Death Star Plans” didnt show how to blow it up, just the schematics, yet we were so easy to accept the flaw in the design that allowed a single missile to blow up the entire station....

Only years later to have it retconned to make actual sense...

Face it guys your jaded and angry a movie didn’t live up to your head cannon....



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Darth Skywalker]

FINN
Apparently he's carrying a map that
leads to Luke Skywalker, and everyone's after it.

She turns to him, concerned, curious. And asks:

REY
Luke Skywalker? I thought he was a
myth.

Just then BB-8 BEEPS MADLY at something he sees.

REY (CONT'D)
What is it?

 

[Darth Skywalker]

REY
Wait! No -- we need your help!

HAN
My help?

REY
This droid has to get to the
Resistance base as soon as possible!

FINN
He's carrying a map to Luke Skywalker.

Yup: Han stops in his tracks.

FINN (CONT'D)
You are the Han Solo that fought
with the Rebellion. You knew him.

The mention of Luke has really hit Han. He turns to Finn.

HAN
Yeah, I knew him. I knew Luke.

 

[Darth Skywalker]

BB-8 rolls forward -- and suddenly PROJECTS A HOLOGRAPHIC MAP, FILLING THE ROOM. PLANETS, STARS, SYSTEMS.
They all react. Chewie sits to look up. Han moves through stars, becomes reflective.

HAN
This map's not complete. It's just
a piece. Ever since Luke disappeared, people have been looking for him.

REY Why'd he leave?

HAN
He was training a new generation of
Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible... He walked away from everything.

FINN
Do you know what happened to him?

HAN
There're a lot of rumors. Stories.
The people who knew him the best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.

REY The Jedi were real?

HAN
I used to wonder that myself. Thought
it was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo -- magical power holding together good, evil, the dark side and the light.
(beat)
'Crazy thing is, it's true. The Force, the Jedi, all of it. It's all true.

 

[Darth Skywalker]

So there’s the actual script.

With Han saying that Luke “went looking for” the Temple, it implies that no one really knows where it is.

 

[Wor-Gar]

So, reverse engineer it: Luke found the temple, gave the full star map to R2 with a missing piece and gave that missing piece to .... to Max Von Sydow?

Why would Luke do that if he didn't want to be found? If the temple is indeed missing and Luke found it, then it stands to reason that it was Luke who made the mystery pirate map back to his location.

 

[Khev]

So, reverse engineer it: Luke found the temple, gave the full star map to R2 with a missing piece

Master Wor-Gar you disappoint me. Once again:

As has been stated many times over, Luke never "left a map in R2." That was never remotely hinted at on screen and Abrams himself said that R2 got the map fragment from the original Death Star when he jacked in to find Leia's cell. Luke never even knew he had it. He had no intention of being found.

Abrams said that the whole reason that R2 was in a coma or whatever was because he was depressed that Luke was gone. If Luke had actively given R2 a map to his location then don't you think that R2 might have mentioned that a little sooner? Abrams said that when BB-8 rolled up to R2 in the Resistance base and beeped at him that he basically said "Hey, everyone thinks that Luke is at the lost Jedi Temple. I've got a piece of the map, do you have anything that can help?" To which R2 sat dormant processing BB-8's information for however many minutes before finally realizing that he had long forgotten data from the Death Star that might help them do exactly that.

Were we given more than hints and implications on screen? Unfortunately no but the actions and dialogue on film do support Abrams' statements and regardless of how poorly spelled out they were the fact remains that Luke never, ever "gave anyone a map."

For the record I'm only stating this to counter the erroneous claim that Luke went off to hide while simultaneously defeating the whole purpose of hiding by leaving a map to his exact location. I am not defending the story as if it's some air tight organically flowing narrative. It isn't. In fact I find it incredibly silly that Max Von Sydow just happened to have a fragmented map missing one single section, that happens to be the *only* section that R2 has who acquired it from a completely different source. So contrived IMO.

But they did run with that notion because apparently Kylo Ren had the same piece that R2 did as revealed when he told Rey that the FO has a "fragment recovered from the archives of the Empire." So I guess we're supposed to believe that all the Empire ever had was that one piece (that R2 made a copy of) with Max Von Sydow possibly being the sole owner of the rest of the map.

How did Luke himself find the lost Temple? Who the hell knows, lol. But I do know that he didn't leave any bread crumbs for anyone else after he *did* find it.