Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[ironwez20]

My point is, what hurt TLJ was the repeat viewings. After people saw it and were unhappy with it. Fans who like something a lot usually go back for multiple viewings. They didn't go back to see it a 2nd or 3rd time. Then, they also didn't buy it on home video either.

SO while BO dropped 34%, home BluRay sales dropped 45%. Your results are biased by nearly an additional 12% in the diff between BO drop and BluRay drop.

I watched TFA in the theater 2x & RO 3x. I bought both on BluRay day of release. I saw TLJ once. Didn't buy on BluRay. And I won't buy it on BluRay until/if I watch EPIX, like it, then feel the need to buy TLJ so I don't have a missing chapter. But I won't buy it either for more than like $10.

I kinda liked Solo. Watched it once many weeks after released, just before it left the theaters, cause my son decided he wanted to see it. But still haven't bought it on BluRay. Waiting for $10 or less. It's also on Netflix, and I still haven't felt like watching it again.

All of this. Just like TPM people couldn’t swallow how bad it was. So they’d watch it multiple times. It’s weird but this is what Star Wars fans do lol

 

[ajp4mgs]

I swear TLJ must of changed AJP’s life. No way we watched the same movie. What I saw was a pretty movie but a soulless story that divided the fanbase heavily. If you don’t think the fanbase is divided by this movie you are lying to yourself.

Force awakens and TLJ had teasers by now. Cause they knew they could get butts in seats with the name alone. Now they can’t cause the brand has been damaged. Can they win trust again? Maybe? Will Episode 9 be different? Maybe but let’s not pretend this movie did t damage the brand. Not even the prequels hurt the franchise like this film did

Believe it or not, TLJ didn't change my life. But Star Wars (ANH) kinda did.

I only post about SW in the movies section. And I defend TLJ so much because I think it's really lame when people just crap on something all the time as if their opinion represents some universal truth. Nobody bothers to think that they and their friends don't represent the views of everyone else.

But, you're right: I shouldn't give this much of a ****. And I would've stopped posting here by now if I hadn't gotten PM's from people here thanking me for doing what I do. There are others who don't want to deal with the ****. They don't want to point out when things are being presented in a skewed way. Some don't want to lose bonds with people here who hate TLJ, and some just don't have the patience. I guess I do; and I don't care about how many TLJ-hating people here hate me for defending it. It's fine.

 

[loki2371]

So, you think TLJ made $620 million domestic without a lot of repeat viewings? And you think that being the top-selling blu-ray for the entire year shows that nobody bought it on home video? How does that logic work exactly?

OK, look. From yesterday I was only pointing out the facts to your BluRay claim. Your reasoning was it must've been well received because it was the #1 selling BluRay for the year. So, I compared it to TFA sales from 2 years prior. TLJ sold 45% LESS copies in the same 9 month period. Then you used BO data. TLJ only dropped 34%, which is typical as you so pointed out..

The difference here is, BluRay sales come after BO sales. SO again, 5.5 mil people bought the TFA BluRay, but only 3mil bought the TLJ BluRay. A difference of 2.5 mil. Because AFTER they paid to see it in the theater they were unhappy. 45% of the fans who bought and liked TFA did not return and buy TLJ. BUT they most likely did see it in the theater. That's nearly half of the SW fans that buy the movies on BluRay did not purchase TLJ. The same fans who most likely own EPI-VI in addition to VII (TFA), did NOT buy EpVIII (TLJ).

So based on that, 45% of the SW based fandom that buys BluRay movies did not buy TLJ.

People don't tend to buy multiple copies of the same BluRay. So this could also show how much potential BO $$ TLJ lost due to an unhappy fan base. The 45% of TFA owners who didn't buy TLJ, most likely also didn't go back to the theater for additional viewings.

45%. To any business, losing 45% off your patrons is a pretty big problem.

 

[Khev]

Force awakens and TLJ had teasers by now. Cause they knew they could get butts in seats with the name alone. Now they can’t cause the brand has been damaged. Can they win trust again? Maybe? Will Episode 9 be different? Maybe but let’s not pretend this movie did t damage the brand. Not even the prequels hurt the franchise like this film did

TLJ did not have a teaser until Celebration April 2017. I assume the Episode IX teaser will also debut at this year's Celebration.

 

[ajp4mgs]

OK, look. From yesterday I was only pointing out the facts to your BluRay claim. Your reasoning was it must've been well received because it was the #1 selling BluRay for the year. So, I compared it to TFA sales from 2 years prior. TLJ sold 45% LESS copies in the same 9 month period. Then you used BO data. TLJ only dropped 34%, which is typical as you so pointed out..

The difference here is, BluRay sales come after BO sales. SO again, 5.5 mil people bought the TFA BluRay, but only 3mil bought the TLJ BluRay. A difference of 2.5 mil. Because AFTER they paid to see it in the theater they were unhappy. 45% of the fans who bought and liked TFA did not return and buy TLJ. BUT they most likely did see it in the theater. That's nearly half of the SW fans that buy the movies on BluRay did not purchase TLJ. The same fans who most likely own EPI-VI in addition to VII (TFA), did NOT buy EpVIII (TLJ).

So based on that, 45% of the SW based fandom that buys BluRay movies did not buy TLJ.

People don't tend to buy multiple copies of the same BluRay. So this could also show how much potential BO $$ TLJ lost due to an unhappy fan base. The 45% of TFA owners who didn't buy TLJ, most likely also didn't go back to the theater for additional viewings.

45%. To any business, losing 45% off your patrons is a pretty big problem.

I know that you're tired of this debate, and I thank you for responding each time. All I can tell you is that I think TFA is so much of an outlier, that it makes things look worse for TLJ sales than comparing TLJ to other successful movies. If I'm right, you enjoyed RO. That's a SW movie, and it was very successful. TLJ will soon have outsold it on home video. It will also end up close to the same sales as BP and IW. So, it's hard for me to consider TLJ unpopular just because it fell way short of TFA by every metric.

But it's fine, loki; maybe I'm just stubborn, and I don't get it. I thank you for being civil throughout.

 

[loki2371]

I know that you're tired of this debate, and I thank you for responding each time. All I can tell you is that I think TFA is so much of an outlier, that it makes things look worse for TLJ sales than comparing TLJ to other successful movies. If I'm right, you enjoyed RO. That's a SW movie, and it was very successful. TLJ will soon have outsold it on home video. It will also end up close to the same sales as BP and IW. So, it's hard for me to consider TLJ unpopular just because it fell way short of TFA by every metric.

But it's fine, loki; maybe I'm just stubborn, and I don't get it. I thank you for being civil throughout.

I don't mind. I've also enjoyed talking to you too. We can be civil in our disagreements. I can be stubborn too. Passionate fans tend to be. Either when defending what they love, or being upset with what they once loved and now feel is being mistreated.

Just keep in mind though, we should ONLY compare SW to SW. Yes it's tempting to compare it to BP, IW and other movies. But it's more apples to oranges as to why each of these movies were successful.

All we can really do is wait till this December and see how the dust falls after EPIX is released. Otherwise both sides are just beating a dead horse..

 

[ironwez20]

Believe it or not, TLJ didn't change my life. But Star Wars (ANH) kinda did.

I only post about SW in the movies section. And I defend TLJ so much because I think it's really lame when people just crap on something all the time as if their opinion represents some universal truth. Nobody bothers to think that they and their friends don't represent the views of everyone else.

But, you're right: I shouldn't give this much of a ****. And I would've stopped posting here by now if I hadn't gotten PM's from people here thanking me for doing what I do. There are others who don't want to deal with the ****. They don't want to point out when things are being presented in a skewed way. Some don't want to lose bonds with people here who hate TLJ, and some just don't have the patience. I guess I do; and I don't care about how many TLJ-hating people here hate me for defending it. It's fine.

Hm well when u put it that way that’s really quite cool actually. But I’m no blind hater. Don’t care that Rey is a girl, don’t care that Luke drank ***** milk, don’t care about rose to much. I care about the story progression and to me I think the story is absolutely horrendous. I just don’t see any need to follow the series any further. I don’t feel any growth from these characters. There is no conflict. It’s all so boring. I just can’t get invested. Which sucks cause I love Star Wars. I’m not hating just to hate I just thought it’d be better. But it’s just not grabbing me . But hey maybe 9 can be better but I doubt it I really do. But I guess you saying that put it in a different perspective

 

[ironwez20]

TLJ did not have a teaser until Celebration April 2017. I assume the Episode IX teaser will also debut at this year's Celebration.

Oooooooo ok. My mistake

 

[DiFabio]

I dance around them naked smeared in peanut butter hoping our female overlords will finally take over and enslave us.

That's hot.

And I would've stopped posting here by now if I hadn't gotten PM's from people here thanking me for doing what I do.

I want to see screen shots of this. You can blur out their usernames.

Look everyone, it's ajp4mgs, the savior of The Last Jedi and all of it's fans! What a service this man is providing by defending the opinions of a movie. What a hero, what a SAINT!

 

[ajp4mgs]

It's all good ironwez and loki. You guys both seem cool enough, and we're all fans in one way or another. There's nothing wrong with disagreement. I can understand how and why people hate the ST, or just TLJ. I get it. I just see it differently. But there are things we'll agree on down the line.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I want to see screen shots of this. You can blur out the usernames.

If it's all the same to you, I'll keep those to myself. But, hey, I'm sure you'll have plenty more opportunities to crap on and ridicule people. Hope it makes you feel nice and special.

Look everyone, it's ajp4mgs, the savior of The Last Jedi and all of it's fans! What a service this man is providing by defending the opinions of a movie. What a hero, what a SAINT!

Look everyone, it's DiFabio, the cool tough guy who thinks the stuff he's a fan of makes him better than everyone else. What a guy! What a stud!

 

[loki2371]

Hm well when u put it that way that’s really quite cool actually. But I’m no blind hater. Don’t care that Rey is a girl, don’t care that Luke drank ***** milk, don’t care about rose to much. I care about the story progression and to me I think the story is absolutely horrendous. I just don’t see any need to follow the series any further. I don’t feel any growth from these characters. There is no conflict. It’s all so boring. I just can’t get invested. Which sucks cause I love Star Wars. I’m not hating just to hate I just thought it’d be better. But it’s just not grabbing me . But hey maybe 9 can be better but I doubt it I really do.

This is pretty much how I feel. I even like the PQ's. While no, obviously nowhere near as good as the OT, I was still captivated. Obviously not the acting, but the overall story, the characters, and the visuals. Waiting to see how Anakin becomes Vader, how Palpatine became Emperor..... And by the man who created this Universe I fell in love with at 5 years old. There is probably just as many characters/vehicles I love from the PQ as the OT.

There is nothing long lasting I like about the ST. The only ST merch I own are a few 6in black series figures. Kylo, FO Trooper, and a Phasma. All purchased before TFA came out. They looked cool. But on screen they were uninspiring. Even with somewhat liking TFA and looking forward to where SW was heading, there is still no ST merch I will ever feel I need in my collection. And I agree, no matter how good EPIX could be, it can't undo the meh feeling of TFA (while hopefully optimistic) or the awful follow up in TLJ for me.

 

[DiFabio]

If it's all the same to you, I'll keep those to myself. But, hey, I'm sure you'll have plenty more opportunities to crap on and ridicule people. Hope it makes you feel nice and special.

I just don't believe it. It comes off as a little, I dunno, masturbatory ya know. Read what you typed, what I quoted, again. I would've stopped posting here by now if I hadn't gotten PM's from people here thanking me for doing what I do. You're coming across as if you're a social worker or a volunteer fireman!

Look, if people have done this where they send you a heartfelt message, thanking you personally for enduring the hardship of posting along side negative people that dislike a silly movie they like, well I'd like to apologize. I shouldn't be laughing at you, they're the tragic ones.

The Last Jedi came out in 2017, before you know it, it's going to be two years. Why do you guys continue to invest so much of yourselves in this? I don't even see any real detractors in these threads anymore. Nobody really cares. It came and it went, just like most of these movies have. The only passionate ones are the ones ones that seem to feel the need to keep defending every little criticism directed towards it along with box office stats. Just the other day I saw long paragraphs of how horrible and unprofessional it was for an actor to speak against a movie he was supposed to promote. Then within that same discussion, the same people were using the argument about the actor's sudden praise and turn around as support for their opinion. THEN I looked back at their post history, and they've had this discussion with the same people 3 or 4 times! Sounds a lot like "presenting things in a skewed way" to me.

It's insane to me. At least the people that truly hate it post humorous things. The people that like it and defend it, well, they're just not as entertaining because they're taking it so, so seriously. You can tell. I'll take the guy spewing hyperbole about how much the movie sucks with quick arguments containing key words like ***** milk, flying elderly grandmas and a holographic hobo over some guy posting emotional eloquent essays defending the movie's meaning and "depth" with the same couple dudes hovering over him, patting him on the back each time.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I just don't believe it. It comes off as a little, I dunno, masturbatory ya know. Read what you typed, what I quoted, again. I would've stopped posting here by now if I hadn't gotten PM's from people here thanking me for doing what I do. You're coming across as if you're a social worker or a volunteer fireman!

Look, if people have done this where they send you a heartfelt message, thanking you personally for enduring the hardship of posting along side negative people that dislike a silly movie they like, well I'd like to apologize. I shouldn't be laughing at you, they're the tragic ones.

The Last Jedi came out in 2017, before you know it, it's going to be two years. Why do you guys continue to do this to yourselves? I don't even see any real detractors in these threads anymore. Nobody really cares. It came and it went, just like most of these movies have been. The only passionate ones are the ones ones that seem to feel the need to keep defending every little criticism directed towards it along with box office stats. Just the other day I saw long paragraphs of how horrible and unprofessional it was for an actor to speak against a movie he was supposed to promote. Then within that same discussion, the same people were using the argument about the actor's sudden praise and turn around as support for their opinion. THEN I looked back at their post history, and they've had this discussion with the same people 3 or 4 times! Sounds a lot like "presenting things in a skewed way" to me.

It's insane to me. At least the people that truly hate it post humorous things. The people that like it and defend it, well, they're just not as entertaining because they're taking it so, so seriously. You can tell. I'll take the guy spewing hyperbole about how much the movie sucks with quick arguments containing key words like ***** milk, flying elderly grandmas and a holographic hobo over some guy posting emotional eloquent essays defending the movie's meaning and "depth" with the same couple dudes hovering over him, patting him on the back each time.

It's not as if these people went out of their way to thank me for being some kind of hero. I see it as just people appreciating (or merely observing) that there are others who are saying what they don't have the patience, the time, or the will to say. I made a mistake in mentioning it. In fact, if you want to believe that I made it up for masturbatory purposes, then let's just go with that. That's fine.

As far as what's insane: I'm a grown man spending hard-earned money on toys and posting about it in a forum. The perception of possible insanity isn't exactly keeping me up at night, and that's probably true for many people on this forum. I type out long posts because there are plenty of other people taking care of one-liners, gifs, and memes. Everybody brings something different to the table. It's easy enough to just to skip over my posts and ignore my insanity.

 

[ironwez20]

This is pretty much how I feel. I even like the PQ's. While no, obviously nowhere near as good as the OT, I was still captivated. Obviously not the acting, but the overall story, the characters, and the visuals. Waiting to see how Anakin becomes Vader, how Palpatine became Emperor..... And by the man who created this Universe I fell in love with at 5 years old. There is probably just as many characters/vehicles I love from the PQ as the OT.

There is nothing long lasting I like about the ST. The only ST merch I own are a few 6in black series figures. Kylo, FO Trooper, and a Phasma. All purchased before TFA came out. They looked cool. But on screen they were uninspiring. Even with somewhat liking TFA and looking forward to where SW was heading, there is still no ST merch I will ever feel I need in my collection. And I agree, no matter how good EPIX could be, it can't undo the meh feeling of TFA (while hopefully optimistic) or the awful follow up in TLJ for me.

Same thing here buddy. Was ready to buy all the figures. Everything looked so cool but I saw the movies and I couldn’t. I know people crap on PT but I loved the downfall of Vader. I felt the build up was well done. I can pick out memorable moments from even Aotc. I can’t do that with these films and that’s a problem.

 

[ironwez20]

I just don't believe it. It comes off as a little, I dunno, masturbatory ya know. Read what you typed, what I quoted, again. I would've stopped posting here by now if I hadn't gotten PM's from people here thanking me for doing what I do. You're coming across as if you're a social worker or a volunteer fireman!

Look, if people have done this where they send you a heartfelt message, thanking you personally for enduring the hardship of posting along side negative people that dislike a silly movie they like, well I'd like to apologize. I shouldn't be laughing at you, they're the tragic ones.

The Last Jedi came out in 2017, before you know it, it's going to be two years. Why do you guys continue to invest so much of yourselves in this? I don't even see any real detractors in these threads anymore. Nobody really cares. It came and it went, just like most of these movies have. The only passionate ones are the ones ones that seem to feel the need to keep defending every little criticism directed towards it along with box office stats. Just the other day I saw long paragraphs of how horrible and unprofessional it was for an actor to speak against a movie he was supposed to promote. Then within that same discussion, the same people were using the argument about the actor's sudden praise and turn around as support for their opinion. THEN I looked back at their post history, and they've had this discussion with the same people 3 or 4 times! Sounds a lot like "presenting things in a skewed way" to me.

It's insane to me. At least the people that truly hate it post humorous things. The people that like it and defend it, well, they're just not as entertaining because they're taking it so, so seriously. You can tell. I'll take the guy spewing hyperbole about how much the movie sucks with quick arguments containing key words like ***** milk, flying elderly grandmas and a holographic hobo over some guy posting emotional eloquent essays defending the movie's meaning and "depth" with the same couple dudes hovering over him, patting him on the back each time.

Kinda felt the same. I pop in the thread every now and then and add my two cents in the convo. Call it negativity but I missed the heated debates seeing who could win an argument and who was just spouting nonsense. I don’t know if you guys remember spazz or even snikt but it was hilarious to see the back and forth those guys would generate. The crazy theories. It made for a fun thread lol

 

[Darth Skywalker]

Half your fanbase? Do you have any statistics to back that claim?

Cause statically, TLJ is still the second highest grossing SW movie so far. Looks like that so called upset 50% fanbase barely made a dent.

One thing about being part of the SW fandom is that I realized we tend to overstate our own importance to the fandom when in reality we are really just a speck of dust.

This forum is a prime example of that.

Quote me on it. Episode IX will make more money than TLJ.

1. Star Wars: The Force Awakens BV $936,662,225 4,134 $247,966,675 4,134 12/18/15
2 Star Wars: The Last Jedi BV $620,181,382 4,232 $220,009,584 4,232 12/15/17
3 Rogue One: A Star Wars Story BV $532,177,324 4,157 $155,081,681 4,157 12/16/16
4 Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace Fox $431,088,295 3,126 $64,820,970 2,970 5/19/99
5 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith Fox $380,270,577 3,663 $108,435,841 3,661 5/19/05
6 Star Wars Fox $307,263,857 1,750 $1,554,475 43 5/25/77
7 Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones Fox $302,191,252 3,161 $80,027,814 3,161 5/16/02
8 Return of the Jedi Fox $252,583,617 1,764 $23,019,618 1,002 5/25/83
9 Solo: A Star Wars Story BV $213,767,512 4,381 $84,420,489 4,381 5/25/18

Solo came out after TLJ upset half the fanbase. It made less than half of Rogue One, which is a direct comp movie and came out BEFORE TLJ.

The bread and butter Star Wars toys are being DUMPED at discount stores EVERYWHERE.

 

[Khev]

I think that the greatest cause for division in the fanbase was not so much TLJ the film (though it was certainly a factor) as it was LFL itself, RJ included, openly attacking a huge percentage of the fanbase. Those fans who feel personally targeted by sweeping insults from the likes of RJ, Chuck Wendig, JJ Abrams, and so on are most likely *never* coming back. When you demonize millions of fans with sweeping generalizations then you need to be prepared to lose them forever.

LFL firing ****** Wendig was a huge step in the right direction but they most likely still have a long way to go.

 

[Darth Skywalker]

TFA was a really fun movie. I thought they treated the OT characters well.

TLJ was the return of frickin LUKE SKYWALKER and they threw it away. They were GLOATING about getting rid of him.

TLJ should have had Luke reveal that he had already trained Rey. That explains a lot. She was hidden, mind wiped. When the FORCE needed her because of the threat, IT WOKE HER UP.

Episodes 8 & 9 should have been a LUKE and REY extravaganza.

Luke is then reduced to an Obi-Wan size role until Episode 12, where he then passes.

They would have made a FORTUNE for another 10+ years. Not to mention GREAT MOVIES and HAPPY FANS.

 

[Khev]

TFA was a really fun movie. I thought they treated the OT characters well.

TLJ was the return of frickin LUKE SKYWALKER and they threw it away. They were GLOATING about getting rid of him.

TLJ should have had Luke reveal that he had already trained Rey. That explains a lot. She was hidden, mind wiped. When the FORCE needed her because of the threat, IT WOKE HER UP.

Episodes 8 & 9 should have been a LUKE and REY extravaganza.

I'm still hoping that they go that route for IX. Not only did Luke erase Rey's memory of being trained but also his own memory of training her (a viable tactic after he almost lost everything when a Sith read his own thoughts of Leia way back in ROTJ.) His own memory loss caused him to be a bit kooky but as a ghost they can say that his mind is fully restored.