Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[e30ernest]

I think that the greatest damage to SW fandom has come by the *personal* actions and comments of Kennedy, Johnson, and that Chuck Wendig *******, not the films themselves.

Yeah I thiyhad Johnson just shut up, a lot less backlash would have happened. He really did add fuel to the flames. People would have still questioned some of the choices made in the film, but at least they wouldn't have taken it as a middle-finger to half of the fandom.

 

[Khev]

She is the main character of these films so her abilities and how and why she has them are important.

I see your point and I acknowledge that her strength in the Force is inconsistent with other characters in the Saga but as I've said before I can forgive it because I find her likable and while not totally consistent with other SW heroes she does line up with others outside of SW like Harry Potter or whatever that are "special" on account of nothing that they did to earn it per se. I just find her harmless and not worth getting worked up about. Even with regard to new SW characters I like Jyn and Qi'ra much more than Rey even knowing full well that Rey could kick both their *****. Eh, whatever. I just don't find it to be that big of a deal.

 

[crows]

That's fine because I don't recognize the Cool Kids club as canon anyway.



That is so true and a good reason that I believe TLJ discussions feature such open vitriol. It's a film that is easier to bash in retrospect but that is still fun to watch when it's on IMO.



I think that the greatest damage to SW fandom has come by the *personal* actions and comments of Kennedy, Johnson, and that Chuck Wendig *******, not the films themselves. I think TFA and TLJ have their flaws with some of those flaws being front and center for the world to easily see but at the end of the day are ultimately harmless enough in their own right with the good far outweighing the bad. But the way Kennedy has come across with her "I see no reason to cater to the established SW fanbase" and idiotic "The Force is Female" t-shirts and all that has directly led to a significant number of fans actively looking for signs that she is indeed trying to hijack the franchise and turn it against them. Then a harmless tracking shot of some chicks sitting at computers becomes an oppressive call to arms. And that's all on her.

Same with Rian Johnson. I remember that there were a few people who had issues with RO but Gareth never once fanned their flames or strengthened their resolve by taking their criticisms personally or openly attacking them back. Same with Ron Howard. He's just too much of a class act. All he's ever retweeted since Solo has *bombed* is a few "thanks for seeing it in theaters" to those who have commented that they liked it. That is absolutely night and day compared to Rian Johnson. When TLJ was cleaning house with rave 92% critic scores and over a billion in box office he was still so slighted by the bashers that he had to openly and constantly defend his movie and counter-attack the haters?? Compared to Howard who is graciously thanking those (very very few) fans who actually went and saw Solo? I just have to agree that Kennedy and Johnson simply need to *go*. Immediately.



I can forgive them because to me Rey is just very easy to compartmentalize away from the rest of the characters and galaxy. Yeah she's overpowered but to me so what. She didn't use her power to blow up Starkiller Base (that was all Han's ingenuity and Poe's skill), she didn't use her power to kill Snoke (she can thank a true Skywalker for that one) nor did she really turn the tide at Crait (final showdown was all Luke and even drawing away the TIE Fighters and making them blow up in the crystal caverns was all Chewie.) She lifted some rocks so that people could exit a cave and get into a ship flown by a Wookiee. Hardly anything to get worked up about IMO.

To me midichlorians are far worse because those 2-3 throwaway lines in the PT change the nature of the Force for *everybody.* Compared to Rey who's just an easily compartmentalized anomaly who really hasn't impacted the overall Saga that much in the grand scheme of things.

Hopefully Abrams does make an actual effort to give a better explanation to her abilities or at least have enough time pass that we can all believe that she legitimately learned the ways of the Force from Leia and the ancient texts before the events of Episode IX play out on screen.

Same here. The Luke (plus Rey/Kylo/Snoke) story saved the movie for me in the theater; and multiple re-watching hasn't changed that. The ill-suited comedic efforts, the lightsaber toss, the SJW influence, and everything having to do with Canto Bight had me wanting to walk out halfway through on opening day. The Luke story kept me there and allowed me to overlook the nonsense and annoying elements enough to be pleased overall. And the throne room scene with how the Kylo/Snoke stuff played out blew me away. One of my favorite SW scenes of all time. People can say it's derivative of the ROTJ throne room scene all they want, but I thought it was outstanding in how it was filmed and performed by everyone involved (minus one gaffe with one of the guards being edited so that his weapon disappears behind Rey - but I didn't notice it until pointed out later).

I wish that a Star Wars movie hadn't turned off (and even angered) so many fans. I wish Johnson and Kennedy had cared more for what the fan base would strongly object to. And I can completely understand why TLJ pisses people off so much. But, for me, the ST so far has given me what I needed most after the prequels. The three PT movies embarrassed me as a fan. There's no other way to put it. I was embarrassed by the stories, the dialogue, the acting, and the use of Star Wars as a playground for CGI that did nothing more than create deeply regrettable characters and visuals. I never want to have to sit through something as insulting to my Star Wars sensibilities as the prequels ever again. The ST hasn't given me that deep of a disappointed feeling so far.

IMO, the ST has delivered better dialogue, much better acting, better visuals, better effects, and better new characters than the PT. Knowing so many fellow fans hate TLJ makes me wish that the movie had been done differently, but selfishly I appreciate what it did to wash the PT taste out of my mouth.

the last jedi is an uncomfortable movie. it doesnt feel like an exciting space adventure like the rest of the other movies including the prequels
ive seen parts of it, ive watched scenes here and there. there's just not the same fun feeling of watching the other movies. or the suspense or the sense of adventure
Even Force Awakens was exciting to watch. Rogue one had some suspenseful scenes (Even if you new how it was going to end) it had a sense of adventure in it as well. part of a space saga.

Besides the action scenes of the force awakens. most of it feels boring and some stuff like the casino feels anticlimactic....the chase scene is just annoying.
the ending is unconfortable and depressing. Luke's scenes are miserable to watch. the stuff in the island feels miserable. Leia's ship getting destroyed.... Snooke scenes, all just feels depressing. this is NOT a fun movie. regardless of the fanboy hate, regardless of my feelings for kennedy or Rian.

the movie is just an uncomfortable and depressing story. Rian DEFINITELY did not do what people expected. he achieved his goal with that

As stupid as attack of the clones was and as bad as the CGI was, it at least felt like star wars. the adventure aspect was still there.

 

[Popnfresh98]

Lol this thread.

Over 1000 posts now and only recently started. Meanwhile the Solo thread started in mid 2015 has 8000 posts.

And now the déjà-vu begins yet again

Meanwhile over in Solo land:

 

[crows]

Lol this thread.

Over 1000 posts now and only recently started. Meanwhile the Solo thread started in mid 2015 has 8000 posts.

And now the déjà-vu begins yet again

Meanwhile over in Solo land:

 

[xipotec]

Lol this thread.

Over 1000 posts now and only recently started. Meanwhile the Solo thread started in mid 2015 has 8000 posts.

And now the déjà-vu begins yet again

Meanwhile over in Solo land:

Truth is many people abandoned this thread after the first one was **** down. It was way to toxic a place ......


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[Prime Clone]

Truth be told, The Force Awakens was too dark to be a Star Wars film anyway – these films were meant for kids. Too many kids were upset by it, but Star Wars survived that. I remember seeing gloomy faces walking out of the theater, people did not look like they had fun at TFA.

Meanwhile, TPM was too kid-friendly and suffered as a result. It's hard to strike the right balance in SW, even for The Maker.

 

[Prime Clone]

I can ignore Midiclorians as just Jedi "Bad Science"

This works for me too: part of the reason for the Jedi's downfall is they were overanalysing The Force, reducing it to a science, without seeing the big picture.

But the mention of midichlorians in ROTS also helped justify them for me. It's like how vampire science was explored in a Doctor Who novel.

 

[JAWS]

SO true!!

jye's one comment about how the mere act of watching AOTC makes him feel like a loser is both hilarious and 100% true. I almost can't think of a more embarrassing movie to have someone walk in on me watching that AOTC or ROTS. Not so with the ST. At all. Sure they have drawn ire from however many fans and those offended by the assumed SJW politics but the movies themselves are still fun, cool, well acted and exciting enough that they're largely accessible to pretty much anyone who likes big popcorn event movies which hasn't happened since before the PT. And for that I'm incredibly thankful to the current powers that be at LFL. It sucked having the PT basically turn the entire Saga into another "Star Trek" that only losers and super nerds were into.

I get what you are saying. Personally I would not care.. Everyone knows I am a SW fan. Anyone who might think its nerdy to watch AOTC is going to think its nerdy if I am watching any of the other SW films.

While I will never be proud of watching the PT, I am at least enjoying myself more then I am when watching ST.. For the right and wrong reasons

 

[JAWS]

This works for me too: part of the reason for the Jedi's downfall is they were overanalysing The Force, reducing it to a science, without seeing the big picture.

But the mention of midichlorians in ROTS also helped justify them for me. It's like how vampire science was explored in a Doctor Who novel.

I just think the Force is something not to be explained. Its better that way. I like how the OT explained the force.. It didn't.. It was just an energy that some could bend to their benefit.. No Blood cells, no "If one side has a jedi then the other side needs a sith of equal strength" Just mystical magic

 

[JAWS]

I see your point and I acknowledge that her strength in the Force is inconsistent with other characters in the Saga but as I've said before I can forgive it because I find her likable and while not totally consistent with other SW heroes she does line up with others outside of SW like Harry Potter or whatever that are "special" on account of nothing that they did to earn it per se. I just find her harmless and not worth getting worked up about. Even with regard to new SW characters I like Jyn and Qi'ra much more than Rey even knowing full well that Rey could kick both their *****. Eh, whatever. I just don't find it to be that big of a deal.

Again its not just her so much that is effected by this.. By Kylo ends up being effected by it also..

All drama is sucked out of these films because they made her a Mary Sue.

She is likable as an actress. Boring as a character.

 

[ironwez20]

It’s not that bad really, “the media” & “internet” (a.k.a. “people”) just like to inflame things. I think for 99% of people (including white males) it’s really just about the film sucking. Honestly, no one – certainly not the average moviegoer – cares if a minority or a woman stars in a film, it’s really a non-issue. But KK had to save face and do something, especially after being stupid enough to hire a man who wanted to sow dischord in the fan base. Easiest thing to do nowadays is shout, “Racism! Bigotry! Oppression!” And people fall for it every time, at least for a while; people love to hate.

Truth be told, The Force Awakens was too dark to be a Star Wars film anyway – these films were meant for kids. Too many kids were upset by it, but Star Wars survived that. I remember seeing gloomy faces walking out of the theater, people did not look like they had fun at TFA.

All this will pass. Everything does. With net neutrality ending on Monday in the USA, complements of the FCC (such helpful people), our Internet service providers can now protect us from all those pesky opinions and websites no one wants to see anyway! And when they start charging us more and slowing our connections down, we literally won’t be so quick to argue about the color of some made up person’s hair... Silver lining (or was it more lavender?)!

What are you talking about? The senate voted to protect net neutrality

 

[TaliBane]

That's either a new low or a new high.

The expressions are just perfect - RJ's enthusiastically giddy to be where he is, and KK's regally smug to be where she is.

 

[TaliBane]

You are again kicked out of the Cool Kids club


Khev.. Following Rant has nothing to do with what you just posted

TLJ is a film that is never as bad as my memory of it. I can find things to enjoy.. But that is truly a case of Nostalgia for this film... I can find things to enjoy because "Star Wars" but if you took out all the tie fighters, x-wing fighters and Luke.. Well then all I am left with is a pretty poorly written script and poor character development.

Rian Johnson can try and defend this film but truth of the matter is (and he knows it) is that he ****ed up. No ands, ifs, or buts.

HE did the impossible. He made half of the SW fans not care about Star Wars anymore. He divided the fans like no one else has. Sure the PT had its issues.. But people looked forward to what Lucas was going to do next. And while the PT is a flawed mess.. It was always Star Wars and always knew it was Star Wars.

The argument that TLJ is good because it tried to be different and surprising is like saying you should be happy that your wife cheated on you because you never saw it coming. Of course that is not the case.. Different and surprising is only good when its a good thing.. If it sucks.. Well it sucks.


Disney, Johnson, and KK make things worse by trying to blame the White male fans... And yet that can no explain why RO did so well or that Solo did so poorly.

Personally I have issues with the ST period. TLJ just put the nail in the coffin because it could not or would not choose to build off the ideas of TFA.

Why anyone can be forgiving of Rey's ridiculously powerful force powers if just strange to me. I actually think its worse then the midichlorians explanation.. I can at least ignore those couple of stupid lines... Rey just keeps on doing things that should not be possible with what has been established in other films. I hate the explanation of the "balance of the Force" which again is at least as bad as Midichlorians... It was a lazy way to explain Rey's abilities so Rian could have another "surprise" moment.

TLJ is a better made film then TFA but it could have helped TFA be a better film. Instead we are where we left off but with no explanations and not a care in the world for the characters.



Also I just watched a video stating that the Home video sales for TLJ are half of what TFA were.... Guess those RT score where not bots after all.

If you want a good guideline on how to post that you don't like something, look to forum member JAWS.

 

[xipotec]

I'd love to see this image cross their desks... if they still have desks? Is there anything official, or is KK still head of LFL, and RJ still have a trilogy of his own to make?

You see, people who make their level of money, do not care at all about what some “basement dwelling” , “SW nerds” have to say...

Its like thinking Walmart gives a crap about people being trampled at Black Friday sales...

Or what your cable company thinks about your complaints.

It just doesn’t rate...




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[crows]

You see, people who make their level of money, do not care at all about what some “basement dwelling” , “SW nerds” have to say...

Its like thinking Walmart gives a crap about people being trampled at Black Friday sales...

Or what your cable company thinks about your complaints.

It just doesn’t rate...




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they sure care about numbers. 1 nerd, 2, 10 nerds dont matter to them, sure.

but 200? 500? 2000 nerds complaining and trashing star wars online? thats different. Companies change policies due to customer complaints all the time

 

[TaliBane]

You see, people who make their level of money, do not care at all about what some “basement dwelling” , “SW nerds” have to say...

Its like thinking Walmart gives a crap about people being trampled at Black Friday sales...

Or what your cable company thinks about your complaints.

It just doesn’t rate...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lots of talk of "basements" these days.

Imagine all those white, bearded, male, fans/nerds out there who loved TLJ, bought all the Disney merchandise, look forward to any and all new Disney SW films, but... live in a basement apartment.

 

[YoNoSe]

I guess basement dwellers are like hipsters. Nobody wants to cop to it but we know you’re out there!

Technically I am a Dweller since I do a lot of work down there. Do I still qualify if I own the house?

 

[xipotec]

I guess basement dwellers are like hipsters. Nobody wants to cop to it but we know you’re out there!

Technically I am a Dweller since I do a lot of work down there. Do I still qualify if I own the house?

Heres a laugh, lived in a basement apartment when I moved out at 17....

When I finally bought my own home...guess which room I spend the most time in?

Yup , basement man cave.

Crows may be correct, but its still does not affect them in any real way we can understand. They made their money, and they have stock, and that will be enough to have them live very comfortably for the rest of their lives, no matter what happens in SW sales.

Tried to post a pic of 5 year Disney stock but for some reason TnT wont let me anymore....



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[crows]

Heres a laugh, lived in a basement apartment when I moved out at 17....

When I finally bought my own home...guess which room I spend the most time in?

Yup , basement man cave.

Crows may be correct, but its still does not affect them in any real way we can understand. They made their money, and they have stock, and that will be enough to have them live very comfortably for the rest of their lives, no matter what happens in SW sales.

Tried to post a pic of 5 year Disney stock but for some reason TnT wont let me anymore....



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

yeah what about the Fox deal that star wars just ruined? do they care about that?