Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[Prime Clone]

No. It was destiny.

Like Qui-Gon said, "Nothing happens by accident."

 

[RIDDICK]

we've forgotten how to simply enjoy a movie and not feel compelled to tear it apart.

Only those who has something to gain from such act tear a movie apart.
Mostly bloggers and critics who get views and paid.
They don't care how good or bad it is.

People who discuss movies here are mostly fans of a subject or simply passionate about cinema.
Those who don't like a movie feel as much as those who love it, and they probably care way too much for it.
That's why they should be able to speak up, not made fun of and then shut up.

 

[xipotec]

Only those who has something to gain from such act tear a movie apart.
Mostly bloggers and critics who get views and paid.
They don't care how good or bad it is.

People who discuss movies here are mostly fans of a subject or simply passionate about cinema.
They feel as much as those who love a movie and they probably care way too much for it.
That's why they should be able to speak up, not made fun of and then shut up.

This is truth....and tearing something apart get more “views” and “attention” then someone passionately likening something....it’s also a risk for some folks fragile ego to say they enjoy something that the masses say is “bad”

Disagree with the other cavemen and you might be thrown out of the cave.


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[Wor-Gar]

Disagree with the other cavemen and you might be thrown out of the cave.

 

[morphosis]

Good article, thanks for sharing. I agree with the lampooning comments. It would not have gone over well if they had treated Thanos, Iron Man, etc the way that some of the characters in TLJ were treated - Poe’s scene with Hux, etc.

In the very least, Star Wars fans are torn over this movie, China apparently did not like it, and Mark Hamill is ambivalent over it.

I like some of what Johnson did – the stuff Luke says about the Jedi is spot on. Other stuff, not so much. Sometimes it wasn’t even what was said or done, but HOW.

I still look forward to hearing from those Who love this movie, insights as to why. I don’t care about arguing, as I’ve said before I just want to understand.

Why I love TLJ is simple. Its Star Wars. I love everything Star Wars. I grew up with it. Some of my first memories are seeing it for the first time and since that day I have loved it. I think about Star Wars every single day. I collect Star Wars. I love Star Wars. So no matter what they do with it, I am here as a fan to watch, be part of, and to enjoy.

As far as the movie itself, I really loved it because I loved seeing Luke's Journey intersect with the new characters in a way I never thought about and to me it all made perfect sense when you look back to the OT. I think people who didn't like it got too caught up that Luke is the chosen one, that he was the greatest Jedi ever, and that he should be a living god. But after I saw TLJ, I thought it was brilliant that they didnt go that route plus added into the universe that the Jedi and Sith were wrong this entire time, that the force is in everyone and everything and to be a jedi you dont need to have special blood or bloodline or whatever to be a Jedi. I just thought was a far better story than having a "chosen one" and that the Skywalker bloodline is the key to the SW universe. Because when you look back at the Skywalkers, they were flawed, they had anger issues, they turned on people they loved, and their father went to the darkside. Luke very much was scared of all that happening to him. We saw it in the OT. Yoda saw it in the OT. And I think its a far better message that you need to learn and grow from your mistakes to become a Jedi or strong person, than just having high amount of force sensitivity. Anyone can be a Jedi. And thats why I love Rey so much because she came from nothing, she had no family, she had to survive on her own, and learn things on her own without any Jedi Master having to teach her. That's what Luke and Yoda was trying to teach her. Forget all this religious stuff, that gets you know where. You need to make mistakes to learn and grow. You don't need a lightsaber to be a great person or hero.

The Skywalker story is now better. Its more interesting to me. I look back now at the old films and see that Luke was struggling balancing the dark and the light. Everything Yoda said to him in ESB and ROTJ all relate to his fate in TLJ. Yoda didn't want to train Luke. He knew he wasn't the savior. He saw too much anger in him, like his Father. He sensed how reckless he had been all his life thinking joining the Academy would be exciting and an adventure. Jedi do not crave those things. Luke tells Yoda he is not afraid, but Yoda tells him he will be. I mean it all comes back into TLJ. He thought he could teach young Jedi, but Luke's fears still haunted him especially when he had to be responsible for Ben Solo's life. Those fears all came back to him. He was letting the darkness back in.

But I also loved the other details of TLJ. I loved that we weren't expecting Snoke to die. And to those who were upset we didnt get Snoke's backstory, but they all forgot it was the same with the Emperor. In 1983 after we saw ROTJ, we never knew where the Emperor came from, we had no idea he was from Naboo. We didnt know much about how he rose to power nor how he became a Sith Lord. It wasn't in those films. But Snoke being killed in TLJ is important because it shows how far strong he is, but he's also conflicted with his actions. He can't balance the light and the dark. He showed a moment when he does when he kills Snoke to save Rey, but it went away really quick when he realizes this is his chance to be in power and then he wants Rey by his side. Again, too much Vader/Skywalker blood in him.

My only complaint of the film is the casino scene. I thought that was a missed opportunity to tie the originals back. They go to a casino to seek someone who can help them defeat the First Order. It would have been amazing if that was old Lando, especially "they went to a casino". I mean it would have been perfect to see old Lando living it large gambling away and that he is finally needed 1 more time to help. not this goofy Benicio character DJ.

But with that said, the scene still had important moments especially when he shows their is no good guys/bad guys. they are all the same in this universe as everyone has now become complacent and that the rich just want their money and live in luxury without thinking about anyone but themselves. Its a good reflection on todays world which Star Wars always was taking from. Real things happening in our world always relate to Star Wars.

So there are some reasons why I love it.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Well said. +1

Thanks, fellas!

Only those who has something to gain from such act tear a movie apart.
Mostly bloggers and critics who get views and paid.
They don't care how good or bad it is.

People who discuss movies here are mostly fans of a subject or simply passionate about cinema.
Those who don't like a movie feel as much as those who love it, and they probably care way too much for it.
That's why they should be able to speak up, not made fun of and then shut up.

Yes, I certainly see that. But honestly it feels like the opposite is true--the majority on this board dislikes the movie, takes every opportunity to say it, in any and every thread even when it has no bearing on the conversation, and make fun of those of us who liked the movie.

Regardless, I can sympathize with caring "too much" about something. But personally, I can separate those feelings and can recognize if I like or don't like something based on some kind of personal baggage vs what is presented in front of me.

Why I love TLJ is simple. Its Star Wars. I love everything Star Wars. I grew up with it. Some of my first memories are seeing it for the first time and since that day I have loved it. I think about Star Wars every single day. I collect Star Wars. I love Star Wars. So no matter what they do with it, I am here as a fan to watch, be part of, and to enjoy.

As far as the movie itself, I really loved it because I loved seeing Luke's Journey intersect with the new characters in a way I never thought about and to me it all made perfect sense when you look back to the OT. I think people who didn't like it got too caught up that Luke is the chosen one, that he was the greatest Jedi ever, and that he should be a living god. But after I saw TLJ, I thought it was brilliant that they didnt go that route plus added into the universe that the Jedi and Sith were wrong this entire time, that the force is in everyone and everything and to be a jedi you dont need to have special blood or bloodline or whatever to be a Jedi. I just thought was a far better story than having a "chosen one" and that the Skywalker bloodline is the key to the SW universe. Because when you look back at the Skywalkers, they were flawed, they had anger issues, they turned on people they loved, and their father went to the darkside. Luke very much was scared of all that happening to him. We saw it in the OT. Yoda saw it in the OT. And I think its a far better message that you need to learn and grow from your mistakes to become a Jedi or strong person, than just having high amount of force sensitivity. Anyone can be a Jedi. And thats why I love Rey so much because she came from nothing, she had no family, she had to survive on her own, and learn things on her own without any Jedi Master having to teach her. That's what Luke and Yoda was trying to teach her. Forget all this religious stuff, that gets you know where. You need to make mistakes to learn and grow. You don't need a lightsaber to be a great person or hero.

The Skywalker story is now better. Its more interesting to me. I look back now at the old films and see that Luke was struggling balancing the dark and the light. Everything Yoda said to him in ESB and ROTJ all relate to his fate in TLJ. Yoda didn't want to train Luke. He knew he wasn't the savior. He saw too much anger in him, like his Father. He sensed how reckless he had been all his life thinking joining the Academy would be exciting and an adventure. Jedi do not crave those things. Luke tells Yoda he is not afraid, but Yoda tells him he will be. I mean it all comes back into TLJ. He thought he could teach young Jedi, but Luke's fears still haunted him especially when he had to be responsible for Ben Solo's life. Those fears all came back to him. He was letting the darkness back in.

But I also loved the other details of TLJ. I loved that we weren't expecting Snoke to die. And to those who were upset we didnt get Snoke's backstory, but they all forgot it was the same with the Emperor. In 1983 after we saw ROTJ, we never knew where the Emperor came from, we had no idea he was from Naboo. We didnt know much about how he rose to power nor how he became a Sith Lord. It wasn't in those films. But Snoke being killed in TLJ is important because it shows how far strong he is, but he's also conflicted with his actions. He can't balance the light and the dark. He showed a moment when he does when he kills Snoke to save Rey, but it went away really quick when he realizes this is his chance to be in power and then he wants Rey by his side. Again, too much Vader/Skywalker blood in him.

My only complaint of the film is the casino scene. I thought that was a missed opportunity to tie the originals back. They go to a casino to seek someone who can help them defeat the First Order. It would have been amazing if that was old Lando, especially "they went to a casino". I mean it would have been perfect to see old Lando living it large gambling away and that he is finally needed 1 more time to help. not this goofy Benicio character DJ.

But with that said, the scene still had important moments especially when he shows their is no good guys/bad guys. they are all the same in this universe as everyone has now become complacent and that the rich just want their money and live in luxury without thinking about anyone but themselves. Its a good reflection on todays world which Star Wars always was taking from. Real things happening in our world always relate to Star Wars.

So there are some reasons why I love it.

Fantastic post! Part of what I liked about Canto Bight was seeing the flip side of the cantina and Maz's place. Instead of a dive inhabited by the wretched hive of scum and villany, it showed the affluent 1% in a social situation.

 

[xipotec]

Well said Morphosis....

I agree with everything you said.

The only exception to me was flying Leia, which was a great idea, but executed poorly. Would have been better if she had controlled the explosion, and survived that way. But I think they wanted to show that the stress of her dying was what brought out the force. Hardship seems to be the driving creator of the force. Rey got it under duress....the broom boy scene ( which is has vastly overstated importance by the haters) was just there to show this fact. These kids were slaves under extreme stress and the force was coming to them to “even the odds” . I feel bad for people so jaded they think that kid is going to be a major character...

The the only other character I didn’t like in this was BB8 , he felt overused and just doing stuff that was illogical.


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[Prime Clone]

I've decided:

1. I love TLJ as a movie.
2. I like TLJ as a SW movie.
3. It utterly fails as a second-parter.

 

[Vault Boy]

Why I love TLJ is simple. Its Star Wars.

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[morphosis]

Some fair points.

To go with my gut feelings, I was able to enjoy Star Wars, Empire, Revenge of the Sith, the rest were passable up until Disney started making the movies. That's when they stopped feeling like fun and started feeling like there were agendas, which made them start feeling "tricky" to me in stead of fun.

By admission, there were agendas.

Ford wouldn’t come back unless Solo died, and JJ said he had to reset everything to make that happen.

Kennedy said she wanted Luke to die and bring more women in. Honestly, I would have been okay with that except for the way they did it. Also, it seems pretty obvious to me that there was a lot of male-shaming going on in both Disney movies - the way that Luke, Han, Yoda, Poe, and Finn were written – perhaps Kennedys retaliation for the Leia slave girl thing. I can tell when someone has an ax to grind, TLJ was very divisive.

Maybe others don't see it, but it's become so trendy and common now to bash men (and even longer for trashing white men) that it's like the frog boiling slowly in the pot... you don't notice it like you would have even 20 years ago.

Honestly, rather than shaming the men, I would have rather Kennedy put Finn or Poe in a slave getup if she needed her revenge, rather than all the male shaming... Han was written as shameful because he left Leia. Luke was written as shameful because he left Leia. Leia is the hero of the rebellion, the leaders are women (with the exception of Ackbar, who dies as well), Finn is untrustworthy and cowardly (up until the end of TLJ - so thank whoever for some saving graces), Poe is written like a moron in TLJ questioning the female leadership and then having to apologize - a lot of men apologizing to women in these Disney movies - at least he didn't come across that way in JJ's movie... and Yoda... well, honestly, Yoda could have been handled with more finesse, even if he did have some shame coming for hiding along with Obi-Wan.

Do men have it coming? Sure, SOME do, I've known my share of jerks. But now that it's become a trend and is being beaten like a dead horse... c'mon... seriously? Lets move on already, just put women and all colors in the movies and don't go beating up on the classic characters. But then I guess that wasn't enough for Kennedy.

TFA was way too dark. TLJ was way too slapstick/irreverent (and I like irreverence, but there's different ways to do it... Disney is not just creating new Star Wars... they are actively tearing down the previous Star Wars with this trilogy. Okay, if that's what the crowd wants. I'm not part of that crowd. There is simply too much wrong with the new flicks... they do not feel like Star Wars to me, and I feel betrayed - it would have been better if they had been done as a reboot, not sequels, IMO.

So that's what my gut says. Sorry, just being true to myself. I'm still up for hearing why I'm wrong, if there are some legit arguments, great... it's possible my feelings could change, it's happened before more than once.

For those of you who are still enjoying it, more power to you. I have no ill feelings toward you, and as I said, there were some aspects of the movies that I did like, but to me personally they seemed to be done sloppily and without any planning and care (the second film - or second act - feels more like the second and third act combined, and it almost seems like Rian was trying to wrap things up himself and leave the next director hanging... now that's ok, you can break the formula IF you replace it with something better... but at this point it doesn't seem like it worked at all... maybe the 3rd film will change my opinion). Honestly, they don't seem like art at all to me, and I'm an artist myself and have drawn since I could first pick up a crayon, also into writing, music, sculpture, so this doesn't come from a void, this is simply me expressing my own feelings.

It’s not fun anymore.

Oh well, it was great while it lasted.

I respect your post here, but the 2 things I highlighted aren't really the truth.

1) JJ didn't have to reset everything to have Han die, Ford said and I quote:


"I think it was mentioned [by George Lucas], even in the first call, that he would not survive. That's something I'd been arguing for for some period of time," Ford recalled.


After TFA came out, doing all the talk shows and interviews, he jokes a lot about how he finally convinced them to kill Han. But really its more a joke than the truth that he was the one that made the decision to kill Han. Lucas is the one who made all the calls to the old actors to get them onboard. And they all felt for Han's story to move forward he had to die in a nobel way in the film. Harrison was calling for that back in the 80s. Lucas finally wanted that to happen.


2) Kennedy never said she wanted Luke to die to bring women in. She said and I quote "There was a assumption being made for quite a while that girls didn't care about Star Wars. Or girls weren't identifying with characters like Luke Skywalker or Han Solo, they were only identifying with Princess Leia."

Then she goes on to say that there is movement and momentum in films that those kind of lines are being blurred now. That girls and boys are crossing over to identify with lots of different characters. That movies are now being made where casting reflects society on a much more equal basis. Like in the original Star Wars, 95% of the cast is male. But in the real world, society is more 50/50 when it comes to male and females on this earth.

She never EVER EVER EVER EVER said she killed Luke to bring in more women. In fact Rian is the one who presented the idea to Kathleen and she signed off on it according to Rian in his interviews.

So that is a total fabrication brought on by this group of very sexist men who think SW is only for boys and are mad there are more women and PoC now in the series. And sadly, I think some fans have latched onto this hate without knowing what her actual statements have been.

Unless you can present statements she said something else?

I don't want to cause an argument or anything. Just wanted to present things that I think people are not totally being honest about. But if you can prove me wrong, I am happy to listen.

 

[Vault Boy]

I respect your post here, but the 2 things I highlighted aren't really the truth.

1) JJ didn't have to reset everything to have Han die, Ford said and I quote:


"I think it was mentioned [by George Lucas], even in the first call, that he would not survive. That's something I'd been arguing for for some period of time," Ford recalled.


After TFA came out, doing all the talk shows and interviews, he jokes a lot about how he finally convinced them to kill Han. But really its more a joke than the truth that he was the one that made the decision to kill Han. Lucas is the one who made all the calls to the old actors to get them onboard. And they all felt for Han's story to move forward he had to die in a nobel way in the film. Harrison was calling for that back in the 80s. Lucas finally wanted that to happen.


2) Kennedy never said she wanted Luke to die to bring women in. She said and I quote "There was a assumption being made for quite a while that girls didn't care about Star Wars. Or girls weren't identifying with characters like Luke Skywalker or Han Solo, they were only identifying with Princess Leia."

Then she goes on to say that there is movement and momentum in films that those kind of lines are being blurred now. That girls and boys are crossing over to identify with lots of different characters. That movies are now being made where casting reflects society on a much more equal basis. Like in the original Star Wars, 95% of the cast is male. But in the real world, society is more 50/50 when it comes to male and females on this earth.

She never EVER EVER EVER EVER said she killed Luke to bring in more women. In fact Rian is the one who presented the idea to Kathleen and she signed off on it according to Rian in his interviews.

So that is a total fabrication brought on by this group of very sexist men who think SW is only for boys and are mad there are more women and PoC now in the series. And sadly, I think some fans have latched onto this hate without knowing what her actual statements have been.

Unless you can present statements she said something else?

I don't want to cause an argument or anything. Just wanted to present things that I think people are not totally being honest about. But if you can prove me wrong, I am happy to listen.

It is absolutely implied in her comments. She is tacitly agreeing with the assumption.

 

[Vault Boy]

So that is a total fabrication brought on by this group of very sexist men who think SW is only for boys and are mad there are more women and PoC now in the series. And sadly, I think some fans have latched onto this hate without knowing what her actual statements have been.

Unless you can present statements she said something else?

I don't want to cause an argument or anything. Just wanted to present things that I think people are not totally being honest about. But if you can prove me wrong, I am happy to listen.

Tell that to this female feminist blasting Kathleen Kennedy for insulting women with her shallow pandering and offensive presuppositions.



Are you an SJW?

 

[morphosis]

It is absolutely implied in her comments. She is tacitly agreeing with the assumption.

sorry its not. your twisting it to fit your narrative. She is talking about girls now are liking male and female characters, and boy are liking male and female characters because things have changed.

 

[morphosis]

Tell that to this female feminist blasting Kathleen Kennedy for insulting women with her shallow pandering and offensive presuppositions.



Are you an SJW?

she's wrong, and there is no interview Kennedy said that. If there was, it would be all over YouTube. Instead it's people taking what she said in the video I posted and twisting it.

Find me the interview the young woman is talking about in her video that she said she watched of Kennedy. Can you? Anyone? I really want to see it.

 

[Vault Boy]

she's wrong, and there is no interview Kennedy said that. If there was, it would be all over YouTube. Instead it's people taking what she said in the video I posted and twisting it.

Find me the interview the young woman is talking about in her video that she said she watched of Kennedy. Can you? Anyone? I really want to see it.

Don't believe you're lying eyes. Put her words into context with what she's done. "There was an assumption being made that girls couldn't identify with Luke Skywalker". Voila! *POOF* MaRey Sue. *POOF* Emasculated Luke Skywalker. *POOF* Dead Luke Skywalker. *POOF* Emasculated Poe. *POOF* Dead Admiral Ackbar. *POOF* Replaced by Admiral Gender Studies. You get the picture. That's fine if you disagree with that interpretation. But it is widely held.

 

[morphosis]

Don't believe you're lying eyes. Put her words into context with what she's done. "There was an assumption being made that girls couldn't identify with Luke Skywalker". Voila! *POOF* MaRey Sue. *POOF* Emasculated Luke Skywalker. *POOF* Dead Luke Skywalker. *POOF* Emasculated Poe. *POOF* Dead Admiral Ackbar. *POOF* Replaced by Admiral Gender Studies. You get the picture. That's fine if you disagree with that interpretation. But it is widely held.

There is nothing to interpret. thats the problem. You and the others are the ones "interpreting" what she said in a totally different way and making things up.

She is talking about "diversity in film" and how men and women are crossing over now identifying with other characters that are other than your own ***. She is talking about the compete opposite of what was assumed back in the day. Now women "do" identify with Luke or Han or Finn or Poe. And men identify with Leia, Rey etc. Star Wars is not just for boys, its for everyone.

that is all she is talking about. There is nothing to interpret. Her words are pretty darn clear.

 

[morphosis]

Are you telling a woman sHES WRONG???? WTF ARE YOU DOING????????????????

I am telling anyone who has fallen for this ridiculous interpretation of Kathleen's interview is wrong.
The have completely misinterpreted her words. And they are making stuff up that she killed Luke to bring more women in. its utter nonsense.

But If someone can give me a real interview where Kathleen says that word for word I will take everything back. But i have scoured YouTube and the internet for it. I find no transcripts from interviews where she is quote saying this. All it is is people on the internet looking for attention with YouTube rants. They never give any context to where they say these words came from. None.

and if its all from the video i posted, then as i said, its a complete ridiculous interpretation of it because her words are clear as day. There is just nothing in there to interpret. It is what it actually is.

 

[Vault Boy]

I am telling anyone who has fallen for this ridiculous interpretation of Kathleen's interview is wrong.
The have completely misinterpreted her words. And they are making stuff up that she killed Luke to bring more women in. its utter nonsense.

But If someone can give me a real interview where Kathleen says that word for word I will take everything back. But i have scoured YouTube and the internet for it. I find no transcripts from interviews where she is quote saying this. All it is is people on the internet looking for attention with YouTube rants. They never give any context to where they say these words came from. None.

and if its all from the video i posted, then as i said, its a complete ridiculous interpretation of it because her words are clear as day. There is just nothing in there to interpret. It is what it actually is.

 

[morphosis]

wow an animated gif.
really interesting. you are just so hilarious and original i tell you.

 

[Vault Boy]

wow an animated gif.
really interesting. you are just so hilarious and original i tell you.

Relax man. I'm just playin with you. Entertaining myself.